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I was actually extremely disappointed, being the end of the show and all. that guy at the bar was such a sketchball. I was thinkin' he was gettin' ready to shoot tony in the head then he just went to the bathroom and the series ended. whoopee.
Post by oatmealschnappz on Jun 10, 2007 22:20:17 GMT -5
I thought it was disappointing as hell. The only good thing about it was that it was the last time I had to hear that stupid-ass song. Why couldn't they have (at least) killed AJ's whiny ass?
They played us. Holy shit, they played us. The last scene contained every single "tell" that the entire series has created to indicate something was about to happen: normalcy, someone choosing music, sketchy characters (some uninvolved), atmospheric repetition (door bells jingle), showing tires repeatedly, cuts between two related scenes in different locations... and more. They poured it all out to prove a point about the story and also to us. They winked back at us as our hearts raced.
I'm sure some didn't/don't like how some threads were wrapped and I can't blame them for some bits from this season. But everyone was who they truly are.
Post by shotglass75 on Jun 10, 2007 22:28:22 GMT -5
No Easy Ending for 'The Sopranos'
Brilliant episode. Let's go out huge by not going out huge. Great article below
By FRAZIER MOORE, AP Television Writer
Tony Soprano carries on.
The much-awaited conclusion of HBO's "The Sopranos" arrived Sunday night in a frenzy of audience speculation. Would New Jersey mob boss Soprano live or be killed? Would his family die before his eyes? Would he go to jail? Be forced to enter witness protection? Would Brooklyn boss Phil Leotardo, who had ordered a hit on Tony, prevail?
In the end, the only ending that mattered was the one masterminded by "Sopranos" creator David Chase. And playing against viewer expectations, as always, Chase refused to stage a mass extermination, put the characters through any major transformations, or provide his viewers with comfortable closure. Or catharsis. After all, he declined to pass moral judgment on Tony — he reminded viewers all season what a thug Tony is, then gave him a pass.
But Chase was true to himself, and that's what made "The Sopranos" brilliant on Sunday night, and the 85 episodes that went before. The product of an artist with a bleak but incisive vision, "The Sopranos" has always existed on its own terms. It was challenging and elegant, but seldom tidy.
The only neat development in the finale was that Leotardo was crushed. Otherwise it was perversely non-earthshaking — just one last visit with the characters we have followed so devoutly since 1999.
Here was the funeral for Bobby Bacala, Tony's soldier and brother-in-law, who was shot dead on Leotardo's orders last week. Here was Tony (series star James Gandolfini) paying a hospital visit to his gravely injured consigliere, Silvio Dante, also targeted by Leotardo.
Tony's ne'er-do-well son A.J. (Robert Iler) continued to wail about the misery in the world, and voiced a fleeting urge to join the Army and go fight in Afghanistan (Tony persuaded him to get involved in filmmaking, instead). Daughter Meadow (Jamie-Lynn Sigler) harped on her plans to be a lawyer.
Tony visits his senile Uncle Junior (Dominic Chianese) at the nursing home. "You and my dad, you two ran North Jersey," Tony prompts him.
"We did?" said Uncle Junior with no sign of recognition. "That's nice."
Despite suspicions to the contrary, neither Paulie Walnuts nor Patsy Parisi sold out Tony. And neither was whacked. Dr. Melfi, who kicked Tony out of therapy last week, made no last-minute appearance.
Sure, headaches lie ahead for Tony. The Feds are still after him. And Meadow's fiance, Patsy Jr., is a lawyer who may well be pursuing cases that intrude on Tony's business interests.
So what else is new?
The finale displayed their lives continuing, for better and worse, unaffected by the fact that the series is done. The implication was, they will go on as usual. We just won't be able to watch.
Of course, Leotardo (Frank Vincent) hit a dead end after Tony located him with the help of his favorite federal agent. The execution was a quick but classic "Sopranos" scene: Pulling up at a gas station with his wife, Leotardo made a grand show of telling his two young grandchildren in the back seat to "wave bye-bye" as he emerged from his SUV. The next moment he was on the pavement, shot in the head.
Then you heard the car roll over his head. Carunnnchh! Quick, clinical, even comical, this was the only violence during the hour.
Not that Chase (who wrote and directed this episode) didn't tease viewers with the threat of death in almost every scene.
This was never more true than in the final sequence. On the surface, it was nothing more momentous than Tony, his wife, Carmela (Edie Falco), Meadow and A.J. meeting for dinner at a cozy family restaurant.
When he arrived, Tony dropped a coin in the jukebox and played the classic Journey power ballad "Don't Stop Believing." Meanwhile, every moment seemed to foreshadow disaster: Suspicious-looking people coming in the door or sitting at a nearby table. Meadow on the street having trouble parallel parking her car. With every passing second, the audience was primed for tragedy. It was a scene both warm and fuzzy yet full of dread, setting every viewer's heart racing for no clear reason.
But nothing would happen. It was just a family gathering for dinner at a restaurant. Four people among many.
But then — with a jingle of the bell on the front door, Tony looked up, apparently seeing Meadow make her delayed entrance. Or could he have seen something awful — something her certainly deserved — about to come down?
Probably not. Almost certainly a false alarm. But we'll never know. With that, "The Sopranos" cut to black, leaving us enriched after eight years. And flustered. And fated to always wonder what happened next.
Post by sparklybecca on Jun 10, 2007 22:34:43 GMT -5
iskew said:
f**king. Brilliant.
They played us. Holy shit, they played us. The last scene contained every single "tell" that the entire series has created to indicate something was about to happen: normalcy, someone choosing music, sketchy characters (some uninvolved), atmospheric repetition (door bells jingle), showing tires repeatedly, cuts between two related scenes in different locations... and more. They poured it all out to prove a point about the story and also to us. They winked back at us as our hearts raced.
I'm sure some didn't/don't like how some threads were wrapped and I can't blame them for some bits from this season. But everyone was who they truly are.
(And Sil is still alive, if only barely.)
see, this is someone who "gets it"! ahh david chase... fucking awesome
Post by HoodooOperator on Jun 10, 2007 22:54:08 GMT -5
sparklybecca said:
iskew said:
f**king. Brilliant.
They played us. Holy shit, they played us. The last scene contained every single "tell" that the entire series has created to indicate something was about to happen: normalcy, someone choosing music, sketchy characters (some uninvolved), atmospheric repetition (door bells jingle), showing tires repeatedly, cuts between two related scenes in different locations... and more. They poured it all out to prove a point about the story and also to us. They winked back at us as our hearts raced.
I'm sure some didn't/don't like how some threads were wrapped and I can't blame them for some bits from this season. But everyone was who they truly are.
(And Sil is still alive, if only barely.)
see, this is someone who "gets it"! ahh david chase... f**king awesome
i'm with yous guys, i am still in awe.....i swore and jumped up and down like a child for at least an hour after it ended....it really couldnt have ended better, i didnt want tony dead, and the suspense of what could happen next is sickening.
One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain. So hit me with music. Hit me with music, now, yeah. Hit me with music. Brutalize me with music.
You know about 20 mins. into it I told my husband that it was all over the place, there seemed to be so much going on with everyone...nothing that I expected....but then the tension kept building and building....by the end of the show I was totally on the edge of my seat. I LOVED it. I think I actually held my breath as Meadow was parking her car..I just felt for sure something was going to happen...but then....nothing...which is how Tony will now feel every day of his life. Waiting for someone to drag him off to court, to jail, to whack him. There was just way to much to process in that...the way AJ totally sold out from wanting to defend the country and save the world to driving a posh car and working for Hollywood...the way Meadow will never escape the mob family and is on tract to now marry into a mob family. Holy cow..it was great.
Oh I read an interesting interview with the guy who played Bobby. B. He said when he first started and was reading the script he kept reading about all these fat jokes...and he thought it was funny b/c he said he was not that much bigger than Tony. Well he actually wore padding to make him look so big. I can remember thinking he had lost weight at some point during the seasons...but he finally just got to lose the padding.
I have managed to not read a single giveaway from any of these posts or see or hear anything all over the tv or radio. It's KILLING ME! I ahve it recorded but can't watch it til tonight!
That was a big F U by david chase to his audience. Highly dissapointing. If you are going to leave it unsettled like that, then they should have made last week's episode the ending. Last week's episode was much superior. I guess you can say that I am little pissed. I don't ask for everything to be tidy, but don't make me think that my damn tivo screwed me and just cut to black.
Let's not forget that they've talked about a Soprano's movie...
And that much of the episode was about a TV audience and being an American (AJ's comments, the Twilight Zone audio when they were in the safe house). The episode name was "Made In America".
Post by shotglass75 on Jun 11, 2007 10:27:08 GMT -5
Not a bad theory
TheBlooGoose Posts: 14 Registered: 3/27/06 Ignore Member
Re: Episode 86: Made in America Posted: Jun 11, 2007 11:13 AM (633 of 634)
* Report
Well, here's my take:
Episode kinda sucked, except for the ending, which was very good...Remember Tony and Bobby sitting on the boat, and Bobby says "I bet you don't even feel a thing" (referring to when you get killed)?....When Tony looks up at the very end, everything goes black...no music, no nothing...just silence...because he's dead...probably the guy who went into the washroom, but we'll never know...its not important enough to know...
If you watch the final scene again you'll see some hints...
1) Tony walks in, then it shows a shot of the seating area, then another shot of tony, then a shot of the seating area with him there, as if he's looking at himself sitting there (forshadowing what meadow would of seen - plus the rest of her family obviously - when her dad gets popped).
2) There was a flashback last episode to Bobby's quote on the boat.
3) Meadow was the one who saved him from going into the house (death) in his dream when he was shot. He heard her voice and came back. Meadow would of been able to warn him that a man was approaching from behind if she wasn't late. Remember, at the beginning of the last season, they run through the 7 deadly sins, and Meadow is shown when the narrator mentions a guardian angel.
Chase left it open for a movie, which would most certainly include the following:
1) silvio's death 2) meadow's pregnancy (remember the birth control comment) and possible wedding 3) carm's new spec. house 4) paulie's new position 5) tony's upcoming trial
but if no movie is done, i think you have to assume tony is dead...chase didn't wanna show it, and it does allow you to draw your own conclusions, but there were way too many hints that he died at the end...
One final note about the show and his death...Chase ends every episode with a song that implies the atmosphere or mood of tony...each ending song's theme follows into the next episode...there was no song...there was not atmosphere...just nothing, like bobby said...because tony's dead right after raising his head to look at his guardian angel come a moment too late...
What if it went to black because Tony got shot in the head by that guy who went in the bathroom. Think about it. All the signs were there. He was distracted by Meadow's entrance allowing for the shot.
I like those "Tony is dead -- his LIFE cut to black" theories.
However, as I was watching it, my immediate thought was not that -- but rather "life goes on" for the Sopranos. The shady guys coming into the diner, Tony looking up in fear at every ring of the diner bell -- this is the fear that Tony must live his life in. It's the reality of being boss. The series is over, but here he still is, balancing his family life, with the life that will ultimately end in his demise. AJ reminds him to "remember the good times" as life as a mob boss continues for Tony Soprano, never knowing what awaits him around the next corner.
David Chase is fucking brilliant. They couldn't have left more open storylines -- or more shady camerawork for that matter. EVERYTHING is up in the the air. The FBI is honing in on Tony, they were recording him from the van, Patsy and his wife were looking shady as hell while having drinks with the family -- and of course, we'll never know if he did get popped once we did fade to black.
My mind is still racing, I think this episode will hold up heavily under analysis. The best finale for the best show of all time. Hands down. There is no other way such a brilliant show could have been so brilliantly sent off. I have never seen a better way to end such an amazingly unique series, and doubt I ever will.
I thought something was wrong with my cable box at first. Just as I thought something was wrong with my cd player when I listened to I Want You off Abbey Road the first time.
I do enjoy all the theories but I think it was just as simple as he looks up and life goes on.
As James Poniewozik of Time said: Chase killed off the audience.
The life goes on thing is it, and very powerful. And it could still include Tony getting shot. It still could include Meadow coming in, yelling, letting Tony turn and not get hit. And it could still include the onion rings followed by a hearty steak dinner.
The Sopranos series was never about resolution. This season especially. While parts of this season were disappointingly disconnected (the whole gambling thing seemed to be blown up and out a bit) it was still very Sopranos (which always had its hit and miss elements). But with David Chase writing & directing this one, it was about the end of a TV series and he spoke to the TV viewers by succinctly reminding them what the series was about and that the fluidity wouldn't end simply because you stopped watching.
We were always watching just a moment in time, just a slice. Tony's conversation with Junior reminds us what went on before.
(And for my own crackpot theories: Paulie flipped. Sil lives.)
Yes the tension of that last scene was absolutely riveting. I was immediately disappointed when it cut to black, but after a few minutes reflection realized I had just witnessed the perfect end to what is probably the greatest TV show of the last 30 years. To everyone thinking Tony would be whacked in the end, I would ask by whom? Tony had the sitdown with NY that essentially gave him the ok to snuff Phil if he could find him, so why would NY want to whack him after he suceeded?
I applaud David Chase for not pandering to his audience's desire for closure. "The Sopranos" has never pandered to its audience, and I, for one, am glad they kept that up to the very satisfying end.
Post by sparklybecca on Jun 11, 2007 20:22:14 GMT -5
Kevin Smith, has a blog. And here is what he posted about the last episode. I thought it was interesting...
So “The Sopranos” came to a close. I will miss it. Even their worst episodes were better than most TV ever aspires to.
However, the great debate seems to be whether Tony was killed or not. Some are theorizing that, since the show is (primarily) told from Tony’s point of view, when his point of view ended (gun shot to the back of the head), the show ended - the last thing he saw being his daughter walking through the diner door.
Problem with that theory is that the last shot wasn’t Tony’s POV. The last shot was of Tony himself - no gun creeping into his coverage (a’la Phil at his SUV window). Were it meant to be his POV, and we’re meant to think he’s been capped, the last image before the hard cut to black would be of Meadow - maybe even Meadow reacting to something we can’t see… because that would be the last thing Tony saw. So, for me, Tony’s still alive. The show simply ended. Granted, there’s room for interpretation; that’s just mine.
Some folks have raved about and raged against the ambiguity with which such an engrossing piece of televised art closed. Look, I’m all for ambiguity, but it feels like they did exactly what everyone was expecting: to not go out with a bang. At all. And I respect that. But let’s be honest: layering in all those inserts of people at the diner (suspicious or otherwise) was kind of like heavy petting that ends abruptly: you think you’re gonna get to nut hard, and suddenly, her parents walk in; or worse, she loses interest. I’m not looking for absolute disclosure to their closure, but call me traditional: if you’re not gonna do something dramatic (like kill off Tony) it just would’ve been nice to, I don’t know… let Meadow sit down and do a pull back on the family (not the Family).
Still, I have always, and will always, love that show. And I’m not bitching about the ending (though, if I had any hardcore complaint it was that there was no shout-out to the ducks that kicked off this nearly decade-long love affair) because they provided one really beautiful moment that I feel summed up the entire series quite nicely: Tony visiting Uncle Junior.
“You and my Dad,” Tony said. “You two ran North Jersey.” “We did?” “Yeah.” “Hm.” Beat. “That’s nice.”
I thought that brief exchange really captured the futility of not just This Thing of Ours, but ambition and accomplisment in general: you struggle and toil and put shit together from scratch, and it all seems so epic and important in the moment, and you make sacrifices, and there are casualties along the way… and ultimately, if you’re lucky, you wind up in a wheelchair, unable to remember most of what you’ve done.
Fuck the haters: that show’s still the best thing to come out of Jersey since Bruce and Jon Bon.
Post by spookymonster on Jun 11, 2007 20:22:28 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I have a real problem with crediting David Chase as some sort of genius auteur because he ended the series with so many unresolved plotlines. By that same reasoning, if HBO had decided to call his bluff and cancel the series after season 2, would they have been labeled 'creative masterminds' because of all the loose ends it would have left dangling?
I'm sorry, but I have a real problem with crediting David Chase as some sort of genius auteur because he ended the series with so many unresolved plotlines. By that same reasoning, if HBO had decided to call his bluff and cancel the series after season 2, would they have been labeled 'creative masterminds' because of all the loose ends it would have left dangling?
Because the Sopranos was never about the plot. That's what separated Sopranos from, say, "Dallas" --- this wasn't a soap opera and it was the deeper ebbs and flows that really meant something.
It would have taken another season to wrap up all the plotlines. They didn't have that. Chase played it brilliantly not because he chose not to wrap up any (he did actually wrap up some big ones) but because after making the decision not to tie some neat, completely premature and inappropriate bow on things, he used his directorial and writing chairs to instead prove a point and suggest something much deeper. That life went on.
"Life goes on". The message that all Sopranos fans will be left with.
Chase definitely expected this backlash -- look at AJ at the dinner table earlier in the episode. "Jesus Christ, you guys are STILL talking about the Oscars? Life goes on!" Well done, David.
