Whether it's your first Bonnaroo or you’re a music festival veteran, we welcome you to Inforoo.
Here you'll find info about artists, rumors, camping tips, and the infamous Roo Clues. Have a look around then create an account and join in the fun. See you at Bonnaroo!!
Wish I still lived in NYC so I could catch a night or so of this. Thought maybe some of you in the area might be interested.
May look into this. I really like his writing (along with sepinwall, who both wrote the sopranos companion book out now/coming out.). He's got great insight into episodes and characters and all that.
I was pissed when I realized paleyfest was in LA and they're getting a Parks & rec reunion panel. That should be fun.
Wish I still lived in NYC so I could catch a night or so of this. Thought maybe some of you in the area might be interested.
May look into this. I really like his writing (along with sepinwall, who both wrote the sopranos companion book out now/coming out.). He's got great insight into episodes and characters and all that.
I was pissed when I realized paleyfest was in LA and they're getting a Parks & rec reunion panel. That should be fun.
Post by Jake Jortles on Dec 21, 2018 0:15:32 GMT -5
Where do you guys have this show ranked after all these years. It was number 1 for me for a while. I converted to The Wire after 1 rewatch of both. Id currently have it something like:
Wire Breaking Bad Sops GOT
The Sopranos doesnt get enough love these days imo. I still remember when I watched the final scene and the show was over... that feeling of "oh shit Im no longer a part of this world" was way stronger than any other show Ive watched. The acting and characters absolutely shit on those other three shows, but the storylines are far less interesting.
Where do you guys have this show ranked after all these years. It was number 1 for me for a while. I converted to The Wire after 1 rewatch of both. Id currently have it something like:
Wire Breaking Bad Sops GOT
The Sopranos doesnt get enough love these days imo. I still remember when I watched the final scene and the show was over... that feeling of "oh shit Im no longer a part of this world" was way stronger than any other show Ive watched. The acting and characters absolutely shit on those other three shows, but the storylines are far less interesting.
The Sopranos
The Wire
........
The Leftovers
GOT
Deadwood
Breaking Bad
Probably something I'm missing but I think there's much better stuff out there than Breaking Bad. Which is fine, and it has a fantastic cast, but I don't find it all that layered or interesting. Certainly not in the same league as The Sopranos or The Wire when it comes to characters, writing, cultural analysis, etc.
I'm a pretty big Sopranos fanboy but even I admit The Wire is better in certain aspects. However, no show is better directed and written over it's entire run than The Sopranos. It's pretty much masterful in that regard.
Post by itrainmonkeys on Dec 21, 2018 2:46:49 GMT -5
Breaking Bad didn't really kick into epic territory until the later seasons. The first two are fantastic but I think it was once Walt really started to break bad, Gus/Mike were introduced (and Saul got a bigger role), and the Cartel getting involved then it really picked up. First season was great at watching a mild-mannered guy dip his toe into the criminal world and the second season kept it going but after that is when it was full of tense and crazy moments and the story just kept getting bigger.
Where do you guys have this show ranked after all these years. It was number 1 for me for a while. I converted to The Wire after 1 rewatch of both. Id currently have it something like:
Wire Breaking Bad Sops GOT
The Sopranos doesnt get enough love these days imo. I still remember when I watched the final scene and the show was over... that feeling of "oh shit Im no longer a part of this world" was way stronger than any other show Ive watched. The acting and characters absolutely shit on those other three shows, but the storylines are far less interesting.
The Sopranos
The Wire
........
The Leftovers
GOT
Deadwood
Breaking Bad
Probably something I'm missing but I think there's much better stuff out there than Breaking Bad. Which is fine, and it has a fantastic cast, but I don't find it all that layered or interesting. Certainly not in the same league as The Sopranos or The Wire when it comes to characters, writing, cultural analysis, etc.
I'm a pretty big Sopranos fanboy but even I admit The Wire is better in certain aspects. However, no show is better directed and written over it's entire run than The Sopranos. It's pretty much masterful in that regard.
Totally disagree that Breaking Bad wasn’t layered or interesting. We just finished a rewatch. I’ve lost count of how many that is now, and it still holds my interest every time, and I always see things I didn’t see before.
We also rewatched The Sopranos recently, which I think makes three times all the way through, and this time was definitely my favorite. There’s a lot of bad writing and acting in the first season, though.
We’ve done the Wire all the way through twice and will probably go again at some point, but it’s probably the HBO show I find the least compelling. I like it, and there are aspects of it that I love. I think it’s just not my favorite kind of show, really.
Deadwood and Six Feet Under are my two favorites from the HBO dramas. Deadwood is a better show, but incomplete. I’ve also lost count of the number of times we’ve watched it. It just doesn’t get any better than Al Swearengen.
Carnivale would have been up there too if it had more time. As it is, I love what’s there but it’s so unsatisfying.
Breaking Bad didn't really kick into epic territory until the later seasons. The first two are fantastic but I think it was once Walt really started to break bad, Gus/Mike were introduced (and Saul got a bigger role), and the Cartel getting involved then it really picked up. First season was great at watching a mild-mannered guy dip his toe into the criminal world and the second season kept it going but after that is when it was full of tense and crazy moments and the story just kept getting bigger.
Hard disagree on the first couple seasons. The "toe-dipping" into the criminal world was so entertaining. I'm surprised to see BB being cast aside so casually in response to my ranking, so I want to defend it a bit.
I guess this may be too obvious to be worth pointing out, but total transformation of Walt from S1-S5 and the series-long storyline of his and Hank's relationship make the show groundbreaking. That is extremely common now. I mean I always thought Orange is the New Black was an obvious example of a show being 100% influenced by BB. But this concept makes it to where there is always a purpose you are building towards. The Sopranos is static by comparison. Tony runs errands for 5 seasons. We get introduced to a new character in the beginning of each season that he will kill in the final or penultimate episode. Nothing really changes about the characters.
Walter White is the best TV character of all time other than Tony Soprano. Skylar was far more interesting than Carmella in my (uncommon) opinion. Give me Gus over any Sopranos villian. And Saul is obviously awesome. Other than those four, I agree that the characters in BB don't live up to the Sopranos standard.
The Sops and Wire also ended with their worst seasons by far. In my opinion this is due to there being no series-long arch that the show was building towards (like I mentioned above). In contrast, Breaking Bad's final season was a masterpiece. I'd take that 3rd to last episode where Skylar and Walt are fighting for the knife on the floor over any episode of the other two shows.
Breaking Bad didn't really kick into epic territory until the later seasons. The first two are fantastic but I think it was once Walt really started to break bad, Gus/Mike were introduced (and Saul got a bigger role), and the Cartel getting involved then it really picked up. First season was great at watching a mild-mannered guy dip his toe into the criminal world and the second season kept it going but after that is when it was full of tense and crazy moments and the story just kept getting bigger.
Hard disagree on the first couple seasons. The "toe-dipping" into the criminal world was so entertaining. I'm surprised to see BB being cast aside so casually in response to my ranking, so I want to defend it a bit.
I guess this may be too obvious to be worth pointing out, but total transformation of Walt from S1-S5 and the series-long storyline of his and Hank's relationship make the show groundbreaking. That is extremely common now. I mean I always thought Orange is the New Black was an obvious example of a show being 100% influenced by BB. But this concept makes it to where there is always a purpose your are building towards. The Sopranos is static by comparison. Tony runs errands for 5 seasons. We get introduced to a new character in the beginning of each season that he will kill in the final or penultimate episode. Nothing really changes about the characters.
Walter White is the best TV character of all time other than Tony Soprano. Skylar was far more interesting than Carmella in my (uncommon) opinion. Give me Gus over any Sopranos villian. And Saul is obviously awesome. Other than those four, I agree that the characters in BB don't live up to the Sopranos standard.
The Sops and Wire also ended with their worst seasons by far. In my opinion this is due to there being no series-long arch that the show was building towards (like I mentioned above). In contrast, Breaking Bad's final season was a masterpiece. I'd take that 3rd to last episode where Skylar and Walt are fighting for the knife on the floor over any episode of the other two shows.
Just finished The Sopranos for the first time last week; glad to have a relevant place to discuss it. It doesn't surpass Breaking Bad for me, though I'd rank it above the Wire. BB I've seen twice and I'm consistently impressed with the writing, acting, storytelling, cinematography, and PACING. BB is paced so well, and other than some rather minor details, the plot is pretty tight over the course of five seasons. There were multiple times during the Sopranos that characters/plotlines just seemed thrown in there (Vito's ending storyline, Meadow seeming to jump living situations very quickly with little explanation). In the early seasons of TS there was great tension between Melfi/Tony and Tony/Livia/Junior, but halfway through the series those conflicts are significantly reduced for various reasons, and then new characters are hamfistedly introduced and often removed in one way or another within a season or two. By the last season it became pretty clear to me that the series was just gonna end without a big resolution, simply because there wasn't enough tension being built up to warrant such a resolution. That being said, I thought the final scene was absolutely brilliant. When it ended I just sat in awe of how well it was doing. So much anxiety! BB ended well, but perhaps it wrapped up just a little bit too nicely - a little bit of mystery would have still been nice.
Other thoughts:
Ozymandias is my top episode of television ever. Bryan Cranston did great as WW, but Gandolfini IS Tony Soprano. An all-time great acting performance (though his accent got more pronounced towards the end, but I'm quibbling). Tony and Carmela reuniting wasn't very convincing. Breaking Bad just overall provoked more emotion in me, which IMO counts a lot for a show. The only scene to really "get" me in the Sopranos was the pool scene towards the end of season six - I had a good hearty cry and I've honestly got a lump in my throat just remembering it. Season six of TS didn't do much for me at all for the most part, though the last few episodes are superb.
Breaking Bad didn't really kick into epic territory until the later seasons. The first two are fantastic but I think it was once Walt really started to break bad, Gus/Mike were introduced (and Saul got a bigger role), and the Cartel getting involved then it really picked up. First season was great at watching a mild-mannered guy dip his toe into the criminal world and the second season kept it going but after that is when it was full of tense and crazy moments and the story just kept getting bigger.
Hard disagree on the first couple seasons. The "toe-dipping" into the criminal world was so entertaining. I'm surprised to see BB being cast aside so casually in response to my ranking, so I want to defend it a bit.
I guess this may be too obvious to be worth pointing out, but total transformation of Walt from S1-S5 and the series-long storyline of his and Hank's relationship make the show groundbreaking. That is extremely common now. I mean I always thought Orange is the New Black was an obvious example of a show being 100% influenced by BB. But this concept makes it to where there is always a purpose you are building towards. The Sopranos is static by comparison. Tony runs errands for 5 seasons. We get introduced to a new character in the beginning of each season that he will kill in the final or penultimate episode. Nothing really changes about the characters.
Walter White is the best TV character of all time other than Tony Soprano. Skylar was far more interesting than Carmella in my (uncommon) opinion. Give me Gus over any Sopranos villian. And Saul is obviously awesome. Other than those four, I agree that the characters in BB don't live up to the Sopranos standard.
The Sops and Wire also ended with their worst seasons by far. In my opinion this is due to there being no series-long arch that the show was building towards (like I mentioned above). In contrast, Breaking Bad's final season was a masterpiece. I'd take that 3rd to last episode where Skylar and Walt are fighting for the knife on the floor over any episode of the other two shows.
I think my main point wasn't that it wasn't entertaining. But that it wasn't in the same conversation until later on. Sopranos started and was buzzed about pretty much from the beginning. It was apppointment viewing. People got home on Sunday to watch HBO because of it. It was an instant classic.
Breaking Bad, on the other hand, had dismal ratings early on and wasn't talked about with such enthusiasm until later on when the first few seasons hit Netflix (and word of mouth started to spread).
I do agree that Sopranos and Wire final seasons were lackluster a bit compared to the previous ones (and I agree with Jaz about the final Sopranos stuff feeling a bit filler for a bit. I think because both shows pulled the "Final season....but we're splitting it up to really milk it for all its worth" gimmick).
But I'd also say that without Tony Soprano we wouldn't have Walter White. I guess you could argue that a bit with Vic Mackey as well but where Mackey was more all about himself we saw that Tony had a good side, too. The anti-hero on TV who kills but we root for is something that Sopranos basically perfected. And after Walter White it's hard to find another one role that's worthy.
Hard disagree on the first couple seasons. The "toe-dipping" into the criminal world was so entertaining. I'm surprised to see BB being cast aside so casually in response to my ranking, so I want to defend it a bit.
I guess this may be too obvious to be worth pointing out, but total transformation of Walt from S1-S5 and the series-long storyline of his and Hank's relationship make the show groundbreaking. That is extremely common now. I mean I always thought Orange is the New Black was an obvious example of a show being 100% influenced by BB. But this concept makes it to where there is always a purpose you are building towards. The Sopranos is static by comparison. Tony runs errands for 5 seasons. We get introduced to a new character in the beginning of each season that he will kill in the final or penultimate episode. Nothing really changes about the characters.
Walter White is the best TV character of all time other than Tony Soprano. Skylar was far more interesting than Carmella in my (uncommon) opinion. Give me Gus over any Sopranos villian. And Saul is obviously awesome. Other than those four, I agree that the characters in BB don't live up to the Sopranos standard.
The Sops and Wire also ended with their worst seasons by far. In my opinion this is due to there being no series-long arch that the show was building towards (like I mentioned above). In contrast, Breaking Bad's final season was a masterpiece. I'd take that 3rd to last episode where Skylar and Walt are fighting for the knife on the floor over any episode of the other two shows.
I think my main point wasn't that it wasn't entertaining. But that it wasn't in the same conversation until later on. Sopranos started and was buzzed about pretty much from the beginning. It was apppointment viewing. People got home on Sunday to watch HBO because of it. It was an instant classic.
Breaking Bad, on the other hand, had dismal ratings early on and wasn't talked about with such enthusiasm until later on when the first few seasons hit Netflix (and word of mouth started to spread).
I do agree that Sopranos and Wire final seasons were lackluster a bit compared to the previous ones (and I agree with Jaz about the final Sopranos stuff feeling a bit filler for a bit. I think because both shows pulled the "Final season....but we're splitting it up to really milk it for all its worth" gimmick).
But I'd also say that without Tony Soprano we wouldn't have Walter White. I guess you could argue that a bit with Vic Mackey as well but where Mackey was more all about himself we saw that Tony had a good side, too. The anti-hero on TV who kills but we root for is something that Sopranos basically perfected. And after Walter White it's hard to find another one role that's worthy.
Also agree about Gus > any Sopranos enemy.
Breaking Bad took the anti-hero a bit further. I think everyone's morality can be judged by when they started to root against Walt. I certainly was against him for much of the final season at least. I understand that Tony was more groundbreaking, but Walter wasn't a stagnant anti-hero the entire time. Either way, I still think Tony > Walt, but I don't think Walt was another version of the typical anti-hero that Tony set the precedent for. His character was also groundbreaking because of his evolution.
Also we can't talk about initial ratings as long as the Wire is still in this discussion.
I wish that Breaking Bad either stretched out Gus' role or ended the series earlier to avoid the "biker gang" as Walt's final rival and downfall. What a downgrade.
Post by piggy pablo on Dec 21, 2018 13:09:36 GMT -5
Breaking Bad definitely got bigger, but it was getting nominated for and Cranston was winning Emmys from the get-go. People who cared about TV knew about it and Mad Men really early on.
Post by itrainmonkeys on Dec 21, 2018 13:43:25 GMT -5
Sorry, wasn't saying that Walt was just another version of the soprano anti hero. Ibwas trying to say something I've seen Alan Sepinwall describe more clearly. That they are both like the godfather's of the genre but one opened the door and one closed it. After Walt it would be extremely hard to get anyone to really top it and also, after Breaking Bad we stopped seeing more shows about anti heros or at least any that were near as great
One of the big differences between Tony and Walter is that Tony didn't develop nearly as dramatically. Through therapy he learned a bit more about how his childhood affected him, and he softened a bit/was more pragmatic after being in the hospital, but he was a mobster with mob values in the beginning and a mobster with mob values in the end - money and power (and family/loyalty). Walter's development is great because from the beginning the viewer can empathize with him. He's a doormat, and he has cancer he can't afford, and it's a bit pitiful. The viewer can understand why he turns to selling drugs. We catch the glimpse of his pride when he turns down his friends' (forget the name) offer to pay for his treatment, and the rest of the whole series is a continued revelation of how deep Walter's pride goes. The justification for his actions becomes more and more unrelatable as the show goes on and Walter is revealed to be a monster (or becomes one, depending on your POV).
One of the big differences between Tony and Walter is that Tony didn't develop nearly as dramatically. Through therapy he learned a bit more about how his childhood affected him, and he softened a bit/was more pragmatic after being in the hospital, but he was a mobster with mob values in the beginning and a mobster with mob values in the end - money and power (and family/loyalty). Walter's development is great because from the beginning the viewer can empathize with him. He's a doormat, and he has cancer he can't afford, and it's a bit pitiful. The viewer can understand why he turns to selling drugs. We catch the glimpse of his pride when he turns down his friends' (forget the name) offer to pay for his treatment, and the rest of the whole series is a continued revelation of how deep Walter's pride goes. The justification for his actions becomes more and more unrelatable as the show goes on and Walter is revealed to be a monster (or becomes one, depending on your POV).
I'd actually argue that Tony's therapy helped him develop into an even worse mobster, a point I think they tried to hammer home when Melfi stopped seeing him at the end of the series. Tony using The Art of War to come out on top vs. his enemies, the season six return from the shooting when he picks a fight with Muscles Marinara and then is devilishly grinning to himself in the bathroom in the mirror...
Post by potentpotables on Dec 21, 2018 14:34:45 GMT -5
I love The Sopranos so much, really looking forward to the Sepinwall book. I recently saw a ranking of the ten best episodes and I think it had Pine Barrens at #1, which I know is classically a favorite of people but I just don't care for. My favorites are Meadowlands in Season 1 and Whitecaps, where Tony and Carmela have their blowout, are two favorites that come to mind.
When Jackie Aprile dies and Tony goes into the Sit Tite Diner to hand power to Uncle June - I think it's the 4th episode of the series and I think that scene wasn't topped for me. It's just so fantastic into understanding the cunning of Tony's business decisions.
Obviously tony is an amazing character, but every other character is developed so well in the sopranos it gets the edge over breaking bad. Carm > skylar even though I hate them both.
I love The Sopranos so much, really looking forward to the Sepinwall book. I recently saw a ranking of the ten best episodes and I think it had Pine Barrens at #1, which I know is classically a favorite of people but I just don't care for. My favorites are Meadowlands in Season 1 and Whitecaps, where Tony and Carmela have their blowout, are two favorites that come to mind.
When Jackie Aprile dies and Tony goes into the Sit Tite Diner to hand power to Uncle June - I think it's the 4th episode of the series and I think that scene wasn't topped for me. It's just so fantastic into understanding the cunning of Tony's business decisions.
I'm almost through the episode-essay part of the Sepinwall book, on Season 7 (what they call the second half of season six), I think the last episode I read about was either Remember When or Chasing It. I'm really looking forward to the essay on Made in America (the finale). With just a few episode essays remaining, I'm through 63% of the book on my Kindle. Looking forward to the interview with David Chase part of the book. I'd recommend this book to any diehard Sopranos fan. The ways they connect dots between things I never realized it's pretty amazing. I wish I could analyze things like they do.
I love this scene so much. Probably one of the best of the whole show. My partner, who's never seen this scene before asked me why does Junior cry in this scene. I tried telling her the beauty of this show is how much things aren't spelled out for us. It could be because he is scared about dying. Or he knows he is losing his mind. Or he just really holds it against Tony for surpassing him when it was his time and knows he's almost done.
This show more than any other we've watched together (and we've watched a lot of series) when my partner asks why something happens or what it means, I can't give a straight answer because it can mean so much. Take the final episode as the most prime example.
I come from a very ironically split family of my mother's family jokes about the 1st and 2nd gens mob ties, and my dad's father worked organized crime for the fbi.
I honestly don't know why I haven't ever watched this but it's probably passing king of the hill and community of things most about my life
