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Both players who died both mentioned both Bacon & nodepression.
I think we would be failing as Townspeople to have a vote where both of these two are not the leading candidates.
Who's with me?
While I certainly think this is a relevant point and that we should take it into consideration, don't we also need to consider the fact that the mafia also wants to mislead us with the first kill. The way I see it, there are two reasons to kill a person night 1: mafia thinks the person might be inspector and wants to get rid of her right away, or the person said some things that the mafia can use to mislead people by killing her. So, while I agree that we should look at both Bacon and nodepression, I also think we should not discount other potential mafia just based on what Bek said.
Now, the players I have seen Bek call out, either via her posts* or her votes^: NBF* NoD* Bacon* SFA* LLL^ kdogg^
Because of the events of the last game, I'm hesitant to put to much into a whacked players post. However, since we have to consider it, I just wanted to point out something you two didn't.
She also hinted at another player lurking in the shadows. I'm not going to put words in her mouth but it's pretty obvious who she was talking about. Not saying she is right but if I'm on this list (For the second game in a row, I'd like to add) then that person should be to.
I'd also like to add that her hinting around might have given the mafia another reason to suspect her as the inspector.
Post by NothingButFlowers on Apr 28, 2011 23:09:25 GMT -5
Okay, I have some things to say but I'm typing on my iPod so please forgive any typos.
Kel, you are always the one who says that one of the things you look at is post count and there is usually at least one mafia among those with the lowest votes. Am I just supposed to ignore the fact that you've said almost nothing at all this game?
Why didn't jhammett change his vote before the first round runoff to make a 3-way runoff? Similarly, kdogg, you mentioned wishing that both of the runoff participants would have changed to bring in one of their accusers. Why didn't you actually propose that course of action to them when it could have made a difference? I think it could be argued that you hinted to LLL that she could change her vote, but why not just suggest that to them outright instead of sYing later that you had hoped it would happen?
Also, kdogg, you made a point of both dead players mentioning both bacon and nod, but the post you quoted from jhammett was from after bacon changed his vote so that it was determined already that jhammett was most likely going to die. It doesn't seem to me from the timing of things that that post could have had much influence on any forces that may have been working towards jhammett's death.
And as for the things bel said versus the votes she cast, maybe I'm just dense bit I really don't see whAt you are getting at. The two votes she cast seem pretty insignificant. You were her voting partner and LLL was already safe (although it's not at all clear to me that bek realized that when she cast her vote). She may not have wanted to be lumped together with those of us voting for jhammett but she also had at least one specific person in mind that voted for LLL too, and it does seem significant to me that you chose not to mention that in discussing all the people bek pointed fingers at.
Okay, I don't really know if there are any conclusions to be drawn from any of this but I'll just finish by saying that I'm pretty comfortable with my vote as it is.
Similarly, kdogg, you mentioned wishing that both of the runoff participants would have changed to bring in one of their accusers. Why didn't you actually propose that course of action to them when it could have made a difference? I think it could be argued that you hinted to LLL that she could change her vote, but why not just suggest that to them outright instead of sYing later that you had hoped it would happen?
I did not wish that runoff participants changed their votes. I wished that other players would send their accusers into the runoff with them. There is a slight difference. Their votes alone could not have done that, they needed help. Part of what I was advocating for would've involved using JHam/LLL votes as a foundation for stacking other players' votes. Those two didn't need to change their vote to affect that runoff. It took other people stepping up, too. I volunteered to step up with Bek in the interest of teamwork. If I had unilaterally changed my vote without Bek doing the same, I would have gone into any vote switch with +1 vote against me. Anyone I had changed my vote to, would have been free to join Bek into voting me into the runoff. Furthermore, had I changed votes without Bek, I'm sure someone would have cited that as cause to suspect me. We all have our "survival instinct" moments, and not moving on solo was one of them for me. I'm not going to apologize for proceeding with caution over an action which would potentially jeopardize my mortality - and I don't think I should have to.
Also, kdogg, you made a point of both dead players mentioning both bacon and nod, but the post you quoted from jhammett was from after bacon changed his vote so that it was determined already that jhammett was most likely going to die. It doesn't seem to me from the timing of things that that post could have had much influence on any forces that may have been working towards jhammett's death.
And as for the things bel said versus the votes she cast, maybe I'm just dense bit I really don't see whAt you are getting at. The two votes she cast seem pretty insignificant. You were her voting partner and LLL was already safe (although it's not at all clear to me that bek realized that when she cast her vote). She may not have wanted to be lumped together with those of us voting for jhammett but she also had at least one specific person in mind that voted for LLL too, and it does seem significant to me that you chose not to mention that in discussing all the people bek pointed fingers at.
OK, maybe the timing of the posts I quoted isn't as relevant as it could be. News flash: I have no control over who says what or when it's said. I did, however, reread the game and went over everything they said. I made a summary about it to share, with a few other things I noticed... did you notice that I provided a link to the entirety of that post by Bek when I first mentioned it - as I am doing again now? I was making no secret of that post, and you know it.
In fact, here are the snippets of that post which I believe you are saying are relevant here:
I also have an idea about another possible mafia member but it is too early to mention names until that person puts theirself out there a little more (or not at all).
1. Here she says "possible mafia member" 2. She wants to see this "possible mafia" put themself out there "a little more (or not at all)" I'm sorry, but as to this second point... are you really implying that it's ME who fits that description? Can I get a show of hands of players who think I have not put myself out there enough?
LLL - is hot... but all the pretty girls always get the breaks. However, my unmentioned possible mafia suspect voted for LLL and I don't necessarily want to vote WITH that person but said person may not even be mafia anyway. Additionally, this is her first game and in agreeance with kdogg, I would hate to see her go so early bc I like to see new people play and enjoy themselves and it also throws a curveball bc they are totally unpredictable and you will never know what their role is until the end.
Jham, I will spare you this round and you can keep your corndog but I will take a beer in honor of kdogg who will be at home(capital building)/work in Madison.
Again she mentions her possible Mafia, but says "said person may not even be mafia anyway." This says to me that she has suspicions, but no solid knowledge. That phrasing doesn't exactly suggest she's acting with 100% certainty about whomever this person is. You're saying I'm selectively omitting things. You might be right. Let me throw a couple phrases out there, for the record: "in agreeance (sic) with kdogg" "I will take a beer in honor of kdogg" That doesn't sound to me like someone who mistrusts me herself. There are five people who voted for LLL, six counting Bacon at one point. You might be onto something here, but it's not my tree up which you should be barking.
I'm a little confused, here, NBF... Bek got whacked overnight. As I see it, 95+% of whack victims are innocent players, and that especially holds true earlier in games. I think the things I have been saying are a lot closer to what Bek said than the things which you are saying. You're coming at me as if I am the one improperly reading into Bek's votes and actions, acting as if you're more in tune with where Bek was than I am. I beg to differ. Bek pointed to six people - consisting of a majority of players - two through votes, four through explicit naming. I am voting for one of those six; you are not. Who are you to be telling me I'm disregarding the statements/votes of a dead innocent? If you're so concerned about properly reading into what Bek has to say, why aren't you following what Bek had to say yourself?
While I'm at it... why did you & Bacon team up to vote against the pairing of Kel & Higgi? I can't help but think you two might be in cahoots when I look at that. Seems premeditated and coordinated if you ask me.
Post by NothingButFlowers on Apr 29, 2011 6:46:22 GMT -5
Kdogg, could you Please try to be a little more self-important? I don't think you are really reaching your true potential. Did it ever occur to you that maybe I am voting for the person I think Bek was implying she thought might be the other guilty person? Did you possibly think that maybe if I was sure you were mafia, I would have voted for you? I did hint that you omitted discussing Bek's mystery suspect, which could be construed as a suggestion that you might be guilty, but that's all. Other than that, I've been testing your theories and asking questions to try to get at the truth. Your's are the only long posts making real guesses(accusations) about who is guilty, so yours are the ones I've responded to. If other people had similar posts, I would have responded to them as well. Plus, you have all but painted a giant target on my back, but if I dare to suggest you might possibly be covering for someone, you freak out.
As for the "the nerve" comment, I wasn't saying I had a problem with him voting for me (I didn't actually. I don't have a usual first round voting partner, so the first round is usually particularly difficult for me, and him voting me made it much easier). My question was, out of self-preservation, why didn't he change his vote before the runoff to add a third person and increase his chances of survival? It may have just been that he didn't think of it in time, but I thought I would point it out because if I was in his place, I would have changed my cote to try to improve my chances.
Finally, as to me and bacon each voting for Kel and higgi, I can't speak to why bacon voted for higgi. I voted for Kel because she's been damn near mute this game and that's not like her. I know she said she's got stuff going on, but I don't think she would accept that as an explanation for not saying anything of substance from another player. But mote to your point, I have always seen the voting partners thing as a first round thing to get things moving. By the second round, we should be starting to have some ideas and suspicions that we can base our votes on, so I don't consider possible voting partners in the second round.
I don't exactly trust her, but at some point we Townspeople are going to have to start getting along. It's the only way we win.
I think my reasoning makes it plain to see that I have a preference between voting JHam and voting LLL. I would have just taken one of those courses of action, were it not for the company I would find myself in. My distrust of the most suspicious of No-name players has me reluctant to endorse your course of action, either. It matters not which of you I find most suspicious when you all vote the same way.
The decision I've made comes down to a matter of who I trust more: Bek vs. the guiltiest of the No-name players.
The fact that I'm hesitant to trust Bek is exactly why I'm seeking her guidance. I, personally, do not trust you No-name players - some more so than others. The only thing that's going to make me trust you No-name players, if only for this vote, is whether my dissenting voting partner endorses a vote alongside you.
As it stands, I believe NoDepression voting against JHammett is the most suspicious vote of this round... and the most plausible explanation I see is that he did so to protect you, NBF. Just because he's a new player doesn't mean he can't be Mafia receiving coaching from his associates. Perhaps that will help you understand why I trust Bek more than I trust you, even if she won't make a runoff-expansion deal with me.
I should have gone solo from my arrangement and expanded the runoff, yes... but who would I have gone with? I wanted to equalize the field with it evenly weighted on both sides of that situation. You might understand why this was a difficulty for me: JHam, LLL, NBF, NoD, SFA & Bacon were all involved in the situation, taking up six of my options. My only other options aside from Bek/myself were noage (who had 0 votes, making it pointless,) Kel (whose late arrival complicated things) & Higgi (the latter two forming a voting pair, itself dangerous for a lone player to confront - which is why they were a possibility I presented to Bek.) I hope you can understand why I chose to stay put without having a partner with whom I could vote alongside. That's why I was talking to Bek about a vote change. Ideally, I wanted both JHam & LLL to bring one of their accusers into the runoff... I hope you can understand why I put a premium on balancing the field.
Why am I the one getting yelled at for wanting to expand the field, anyway? I still believe it improves the Townspeople's chances. I'd rather try doing it and fail - which I did - than sit back and do nothing. I have no regrets about making that offer.
Post by NothingButFlowers on Apr 29, 2011 7:04:16 GMT -5
^ That is the post where you said that you had hoped that jhamm and LLL would bring their accusers into the runoff. That is the statement I was responding to.
Nah. I'm just getting the most attention because I'm participating the most. Killers hide in shadows.
I'm sure every veteran player here can agree that my role does not affect my verbosity. I run at the mouth regardless of my role. We can all agree on at least that much, right?
I agree!
NBF: I feel like you are trying to throw me under the bus for being too quiet, and i understand your reasoning.
1. Superbek: I think your explanation about forgetting the game is a wee bit lame, and your remembering just in time to cast the last runoff vote is mighty convenient, especially since by the time you cast that vote, Bacon had changed and you didn't even have to cast the deciding vote.
2. Bacon's vote change does seem awfully bold, but he does often do suspicious things in Round 1, but Bacon's a bold player, and I wouldn't put it past him to switch a vote last minute to save a fellow mafia member if he could.
I am trying to figure out if NBF is bold enough to kill a player overnight that she was trying to call out, or if someone did this to make her look guilty. (Speaking of Bek) Or if Bacon is innocent and changed his vote and NBF is setting him up to look guilty, when really NBF is guilty. Or maybe they are working together. Seeing how they did both vote Higgi & Myself.
Right now, I feel confident in my vote for NBF.
edit: for wording. I am not meaning Bek did it to make her look guilty, I am meaning Mafia. Because I believe Bek is innocent, she is too much like KDogg to kill herself overnight!
Post by NothingButFlowers on Apr 29, 2011 9:12:16 GMT -5
Kel, just to make sure I'm clear on what your suggesting, I take it you are saying I might be mafia and might have killed bek off because I thought she was inspector? If that were the case, I don't really think the fact that I had called her out as suspicious would have been a big deal, but I would have had to be pretty sure she was inspector to have killed her off because otherwise I would have thought I could use her suspiciousness against her later. The thing is, I don't know if she was inspector or not because I don't have any insight into whether she hit on some mafia players or not. As kdogg pointed out, Bek voted for 2 players and called out 4 by name. She also made implications about a 7th player. So, yeah, with having called out 7 people in one way or another, she probably hit on 1 or 2 or even 3 mafia members. But that still leaves at least 4 of the people she implicated as innocent, and probably leaves 5 innocents among her suspects with a mafia player among the people she didn't name. Whether we look at it from the point of view of the mafia killing her because they thought she was inspector or because they wanted to mislead, it's not really all that helpful either way because there are still too many possible combinations and we need context to figure out what's right. Sorry this is a little stream of conscious right now. I can't really go back and reread and edit on his thing.
Slightly off topic, mike d, is the iPhone app for proboards worth the three dollars? I am finding long posts to be kind of difficult to maneuver with the regular browser.
Slightly off topic, mike d, is the iPhone app for proboards worth the three dollars? I am finding long posts to be kind of difficult to maneuver with the regular browser.
For me it was. Try the free version first though to make sure you like the layout of the thing. There is no Karma and you can't see full profiles, but I don't use that stuff very often anyways. Animated smileys look like a picture though, no movement like when you are in a browser.
I have seen LLL chime in this round, but no vote yet. Higgi has not posted yet this round. Yall need to post up something if you want your vote to count.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
I vote Bacon for voting me. I only have internet for today and maybe spotty this weekend. I am going to do some serious catching up. Moving all week has been a bitch.
This round will be ending by 4 central time at the latest (3 hrs from this post). We are going into the weekend in either a runnoff or a new day since all members have checked in and voted. This should give everyone time to make any changes or replys they need.
this is interesting.. a last minute swoop to throw me into a runoff. could it be you and Bacon are working together?
did anyone else notice this?
I don't feel like voting someone off because of one persons vote is the way to go this early in the game. I picked you because you were the one person voting that way.
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