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Now, for the 3rd, 4th, 5th, whichever quacking number of times you've refused to answer the question is... could you please explain to me why you think EAP is innocent yet presume I am guilty because of my association with her?
I really don't know how to say it more clearly. I think it is perfectly reasonable to believe that a mafia member who saw and believed that EAP was the inspector could be using that information to his own advantage by claiming allegience to her and by claiming to be following her lead, while actually twisting things she said to mean whatever that person wanted them to mean. That's why, when it looked to me like that was what you were doing with Jack, I immediately got suspicious of you.
And if you look back, I think I've answered over and over how I think you're suspicious. The fact that you claim to be alligned with EAP does not mean that I think you are guilty because of that association. It means that I think you could be guilty despite your claim of association.
Just because I think EAP was likely the inspector doesn't mean I have to subscribe to everything you say. If EAP was the inspector, she only had one name, and we don't know whose name that was. I voted for you to start with because you came out with guns blazing against Jack based on some pretty flimsy evidence, and you aren't really doing much to show me that I should change that vote.
I'm sticking with my vote for kdogg. I really feel like his whole theory about Jack seems contrived. Even assuming that EAP was the inspector, the only thing she did that pointed at Jack was voting for him in the first vote, and I'm not at all convinced that that was because she had his name. I've never been an inspector, but I know that if I was, I would not vote for the person whose name I had in the first round. His other main argument is that noage changed his vote to EAP, but it's true what noage pointed out, it was Sarah who suggested they change votes, not noage. (Also, kdogg did something similar in the first round, apparently trying to make it look as though I had asked questions that were actually asked by SFA.)
And I didn't say you were guilty for believing that EAP was the inspector. I am suspicious of you because you were trying to make it look like her vote for Jack in the beginning of Day 1 was meaningful when in all likelihood, it wasn't.
As for why I am suspicious of you, I tried to make it clear, but apparently I did not. I was/am suspicious of you because you took EAP's one vote for Jack and built a whole case around it, which seemed to be trying to direct other people's votes to another player based on almost no evidence. I know that you have said that you thought at the time that EAP's vote for Jack was the most important thing, but if that's true, that seems like pretty sloppy thinking.
And I still think that you taking the reference to yourself out was suspicious looking because I think you didn't want it to look like you influenced her.
While you are accusing me of not answering things, did you ever answer this:
Also arousing my suspicions is that NoAge changed his vote in a manner which tried to save the very player he was voting to kill. This seems logically and strategically inconsistent to me. If NoAge truly thought Sarah was suspicious, I don't understand why he would have been so willing to save the object of his suspicion.
Did I miss something? I don't recall noage ever saying anything about Sarah being suspicious. As far as I could tell, he voted for her because they had a prearranged voting arrangement. Since when does a first round vote mean you think someone is suspicious?
kdogg, all of this said, I'm suspicious of Jack, too, especially since he hasn't said anything since yesterday despite all of this going on. In fact, there is not one other player I'm not suspicious of, and I might be able to focus some suspicion on those players if not for you insisting that I should not be suspicious of you. I'm going to be suspicious of you, and if I am not satisfied with your responses, I'm going to continue to be suspicious of you. And if you twist my words and change them to mean something I didn't say, I'm going to be doubly suspicious of you.
Arguably, I have a natural resistence to believing anything you say. But, really, kdogg, look back over the first round. Does it look like I was more suspicious of you than I was of anyone else?
I voted for you in the beginning of Day 2 because you had made such an adamant case against Jack that I was hoping to see a runoff between the two of you.
Here's the thing. The vote is now 6 to 2 to kill Jack. I am one of the 2 and I know I'm innocent. Jack is the other one, and I don't know about him. There are at least 2 and possibly 3 other mafia players alive. So, either a mafia member is voting to kill Jack or the mafia was Bek, Jack, and Sarah. I'm betting on the former. Now, even if a mafia member is voting to kill Jack, that doesn't necessarily mean he's innocent. It could just be that they saw him going down and jumped on board to evade suspicion. But, as it stands right now, I'm pretty sure that at least one mafia member is voting for Jack.
I'll agree with you that the vote is perhaps a little too lopsided against Jack. And yes, it does seem strange that he's been so quiet. I will agree that there is no guarantee Jack is guilty. I only know that I personally am a Townsperson. I might have been wrong in my assessment of NoAge taking up Sarah's invitation to take switch votes. At best, he possibly/inadvertently made a deal with the devil. At worst, it's Mafia in cahoots. I don't know which it is, and acknowledge it could be either.
I have to be out the door in just a minute or two, and I have an hourlong commute to start off a fifteen hour day of double duty. But I do want to walk back at least one statement I made, in the event that I wind up dying.
If I die, I just want to say that I'm not so certain about my statement to avenge my death by going after NoAge or NBF. Do I still think they're suspicious? Hell yes. Do I think they're the only suspicious ones? Hell no. But I still think there's something to the possibility of Bek or Quacker being one of the Mafia; I still am a bit leery of other players at well.
Rather than specifically name players to attack in the event of my death, I'm going to prescribe a course of action. I think we as a Townspeople, with or without me, ought to go back and reread Day One... I think we need to look at who was on EAP's case before she was outed. I think we need to look at who was defending Sarah before the same point too. I think the situation, before it escalated back there, might hold some information that may useful in discerning which loyalties players held. from the start. They would be the ones with agendas... and if we have a dead Inspector, we definitely know what assumptions can be made about any other players with an agenda.
OK, my "gotta go in a minute" disclaimer kept me here from five. I'm off to fight the good fight.
Post by NothingButFlowers on May 27, 2011 15:35:55 GMT -5
I reread Day 1. Here are my observations:
I still think it's likely that EAP was the inspector, as no one has seemed to dispute that other than Sarah, and that was to be expected.
I think it's possible, if not likely, that Sarah's was the name that EAP had, mainly because when there was going to be a three-way runoff with EAP, bek, and quacker, and EAP had a vote, she added Sarah to the runoff rather than leaving it as is or voting for bek or quacker. Leaving it as is would have been the least likely option, as any runoff candidate would want to expand the field, but I still think that the fact that she chose Sarah meant something.
I'm a little more suspicious of jhammett than I was before. He voted for Sarah when she had no votes, which ended up with her being in the runoff (because of EAP's second vote for Sarah). Then as soon as the runoff started, he changed his vote away from Sarah, saying that he didn't mean to put her in the runoff.
Here's the thing: the EAP/Sarah runoff was 4/4 with bek, quacker, and jhammett yet to vote. Quacker quickly jumped in with a vote for Sarah, making it 5/4 to kill Sarah. Jhammett then said that he wanted to wait and see what Bek did before he voted. He gave her quite awhile, and she hadn't voted, so he voted for Sarah. Could be that he was genuinely voting for her because he thought EAP seemed more innocent. Could be that he was mafia with Sarah, but saw that it was likely that bek was going to vote to kill Sarah anyway, and wanted to make it look like he and Sarah were not working together. Just a theory.
Every time I see Gloria Allred slide that baseball bat through that guy's hand, I die a little inside.
I think that if jhammett is mafia, bek is innocent (and probably quacker and EAP too because there was a four-way runoff, which included me, and jhammett took me out of it, indicating he was okay with any of the other three dying - incidentally, I think this also could arguably make me seem a little guilty along with him, but I know I'm not, so I figured I'd go ahead and put this out there despite how it could make me look). And if bek is mafia, jhammett is probably innocent. But it's also entirely possible that they are both innocent.
Quacker quickly jumped in with a vote for Sarah, making it 5/4 to kill Sarah.
I didn't explain at the time but my vote for Sarah was because I felt that EAP was not Mafia and was possibly the Inspector based on her previous posts. I think I made the right move but I'm a noob and wasn't sure if I was being duped. Once EAP was bumped off I felt more strongly that I made the right vote.
And even though Kdogg seemed to be pleased that I voted for Sarah, I'm still suspicious of him. The difficulty with getting a read on Kdogg is that he is so deliberate and analytical about everything that it's hard to tell if he's blowing alot of smoke as a cover or just being his usual diligent self.
I still think it's likely that EAP was the inspector, as no one has seemed to dispute that other than Sarah, and that was to be expected.
I think it's possible, if not likely, that Sarah's was the name that EAP had, mainly because when there was going to be a three-way runoff with EAP, bek, and quacker, and EAP had a vote, she added Sarah to the runoff rather than leaving it as is or voting for bek or quacker. Leaving it as is would have been the least likely option, as any runoff candidate would want to expand the field, but I still think that the fact that she chose Sarah meant something.
I'm a little more suspicious of jhammett than I was before. He voted for Sarah when she had no votes, which ended up with her being in the runoff (because of EAP's second vote for Sarah). Then as soon as the runoff started, he changed his vote away from Sarah, saying that he didn't mean to put her in the runoff.
Here's the thing: the EAP/Sarah runoff was 4/4 with bek, quacker, and jhammett yet to vote. Quacker quickly jumped in with a vote for Sarah, making it 5/4 to kill Sarah. Jhammett then said that he wanted to wait and see what Bek did before he voted. He gave her quite awhile, and she hadn't voted, so he voted for Sarah. Could be that he was genuinely voting for her because he thought EAP seemed more innocent. Could be that he was mafia with Sarah, but saw that it was likely that bek was going to vote to kill Sarah anyway, and wanted to make it look like he and Sarah were not working together. Just a theory.
Every time I see Gloria Allred slide that baseball bat through that guy's hand, I die a little inside.
I think that if jhammett is mafia, bek is innocent (and probably quacker and EAP too because there was a four-way runoff, which included me, and jhammett took me out of it, indicating he was okay with any of the other three dying - incidentally, I think this also could arguably make me seem a little guilty along with him, but I know I'm not, so I figured I'd go ahead and put this out there despite how it could make me look). And if bek is mafia, jhammett is probably innocent. But it's also entirely possible that they are both innocent.
I actually agree with you on the first four points, particularly jhammett. He's been popping up in my thoughts on this game more frequently lately. But I vehemently disagree with you on the fifth. That picture cracks me up every time. Your sixth point has me thinking, because those last three votes after the 4-4 tie have been coming up in my thoughts as well... I've been suspecting Mafia involvement amongst those three names. I'd kind of been pondering along the lines of Bek and/or quacker and wondering what part jhammett had to play in that trio. Do you think there's any relation between when I was suspecting Bek and/or quacker back in Day One, and now that we're awaiting Night Two you think you've found a Bek and/or jhammett situation?
Speaking of Bek... I hope she gets here to vote soon, or I'm going to violate the No Whining rule.
I realize this is probably going to look suspicious as hell because: 1. This is me in a Mafia game in general, and 2. I am a runoff candidate in this specific game at present.
Despite that, I fashion myself as something of the resident parliamentarian here and feel compelled to speak. Before I get to that, though, let's keep a few things in mind about our situation here.
1. We are currently in an extended holiday weekend. 2. The first round of this game took us, what, ten pages? 3. In exactly two weeks from the very moment I write this, I will probably be debating whether it is time to stumble back to my campsite on the farm.
With those things in mind, I think we should perhaps do something about our situation to streamline things so this game doesn't bump into everyone's Bonnaroo departure. As it stands, I believe we are in Weekend mode until Tuesday. Given the situation, we can't dick around that long.
Now, here's the relevant rule to be applied in this situation:
11) Voting will be open for 36 hours each round, or until everyone has cast their vote - whichever comes first. Voting will never follow the 36-hour rule on the weekends. I will only ever close voting on a Saturday or Sunday if everyone has cast their vote already. If you haven't voted by that time, your vote will not be counted. If you miss two votes, you are out of the game regardless of how good your reason is. When it is decided that you are out, you will be killed off during the day alongside whoever would have been killed by vote.
Kdogg>>>Jack quacker>>>jack NBF>>>Kdogg Cap'n Jack >>> kdogg
players left LLL Jhamm Noage SFA Bek
Again, « Reply #281 on 26 May, 2011, 11:58am » That's two minutes before noon from where I sit, and I happen to be in the same time zone as Bonnaroo. If anything is our common denominator to be used as a measure, it is that. If we opt to defer to the time zone from whence Bacon began the runoff, it would be even earlier.
I request that the Referee consider our current situation a timing-out and therefore falling under the jurisdiction/enforcement of Rule #11. Rectification of this situation should include: 1. Declaring the runoff round of voting closed retroactive to Friday 27 May at 11:58pm, allowing the vote to be closed outside of weekend restrictions. 2. Closing the vote without a vote from Bek - she should not be permitted to vote after the 36 hour weekday deadline per the rule anyway. 3. Counting Bek's sole permitted voting absence against her.
It isn't as if this vote closure will advance into a next round of the runoff. If it were, it would require a lot of discussion over a holiday weekend to overcome the current vote margin. I don't think that's likely to happen. I believe a number of us players are sympathetic with the premise that this game's first round eliminated the Inspector and one Mafia. As such, this could possibly take a while. If we assume most of us are in transit Wednesday before Bonnaroo, we have about eleven days to finish this game - plus actually preparing for Bonnaroo concurrent to our timeframe. I don't think three days of extending this round is a luxury we can afford at this point
So again, I urge that the Referee consider this runoff closed retroactive to 27 May 2011, 11:58pm Central/Bonnaroo time in addition to other actions outlined above.
Well, greeeeaaaatt. I'd been writing up a big response to all of KDogg's arguments to defend myself but I guess I'm not allowed to post it anymore, even though it's the weekend and there was still some healthy discussion going on. 6-2 vote... yeah, absolutely no chance of mafia vote stacking going on there at all.
Townspeople - I stick by everything I said as the truth; following what I said in my short time alive might be your key to victory. Good luck to you all.
Here's the thing. The vote is now 6 to 2 to kill Jack. I am one of the 2 and I know I'm innocent. Jack is the other one, and I don't know about him. There are at least 2 and possibly 3 other mafia players alive. So, either a mafia member is voting to kill Jack or the mafia was Bek, Jack, and Sarah. I'm betting on the former. Now, even if a mafia member is voting to kill Jack, that doesn't necessarily mean he's innocent. It could just be that they saw him going down and jumped on board to evade suspicion. But, as it stands right now, I'm pretty sure that at least one mafia member is voting for Jack.
Well, greeeeaaaatt. I'd been writing up a big response to all of KDogg's arguments to defend myself but I guess I'm not allowed to post it anymore, even though it's the weekend and there was still some healthy discussion going on. 6-2 vote... yeah, absolutely no chance of mafia vote stacking going on there at all.
I think we can be assured that at least one Mafia voted for Jack. And if there are three left, that 2 may have. I'm still new, but I don't think that it would be wise for all Mafia to vote for the same person because it creates a pattern of association. Therefore, at least one Mafia also likely voted for Kdogg, even if Kdogg is Mafia. Perhaps it was Jack, and we just struck a big win by getting rid of him. If EAP was inspector, every person she voted for should be looked at under a close lens. I think, if Kdogg is not Mafia trying to throw us all off, that some of his association theories are correct.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
Damn! Is there really a no whining rule now? Nice! I wish I could play next round :-(
You can... and I wish you would.
Aw shucks, do you miss me kdogg We need to have a beer together at Roo! I really can't play. I used to play mostly at work but now I actually have real work to do. I would keep y'all waiting. If Android gets a probards app I'll start playing again but for now it is too much of a pain in the ass on my phone and I am never at a computer more than 10 minutes.
Ok, enough hijacking! Facebook me about meeting up for that beer (that goes for all of you).
11) Voting will be open for 36 hours each round, or until everyone has cast their vote - whichever comes first. Voting will never follow the 36-hour rule on the weekends. I will only ever close voting on a Saturday or Sunday if everyone has cast their vote already. If you haven't voted by that time, your vote will not be counted. If you miss two votes, you are out of the game regardless of how good your reason is. When it is decided that you are out, you will be killed off during the day alongside whoever would have been killed by vote.
11) Voting will be open for 36 hours each round, or until everyone has cast their vote - whichever comes first. Voting will never follow the 36-hour rule on the weekends. I will only ever close voting on a Saturday or Sunday if everyone has cast their vote already. If you haven't voted by that time, your vote will not be counted. If you miss two votes, you are out of the game regardless of how good your reason is. When it is decided that you are out, you will be killed off during the day alongside whoever would have been killed by vote.
I'm not even playing but I concur. Holiday weekends should hold voting over til Tuesday....but wtf do I know....you may have imposed some wacky ass rules in my absence And in any case, I like seeing kdogg die.
Ya but the 36 hours passed Friday so instead of add 72 hours to the round I closed voting then.
If you have a complaint I would ask you to submit a formal complaint as outlined in rule #12
If Bacon is Ref then I take back what I said. He is the man and the boss.
I can't stay out of this thread today. I am just itching to play. Can I have like a small role.....like Power of Veto for next game so I don't have to play for the whole game?
Well we've had two runoffs and each time the person who wasn't killed in the runoff was bumped off by the Mafia. I'm a noob but I have to think that at least one Mafia has bitten the dust and I'm hoping it's two. My gut tells me that EAP and Kdogg were NOT Mafia. Gotta study the votes and see who looks the most connected.
Bacon, I have no problem with you closing the vote when you did. Bek, I hope you're feeling better.
Yeah, I knew that was coming... I wish I could tell you Townspeople exactly what I think I said or didn't say that got me killed, but that would run contrary to the rules. I encourage you to find them both, though.
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We need to have a beer together at Roo! I really can't play. I used to play mostly at work but now I actually have real work to do. I would keep y'all waiting. If Android gets a probards app I'll start playing again but for now it is too much of a pain in the ass on my phone and I am never at a computer more than 10 minutes.
