The 'Whine About Relationships' Thread

Up until this post, my frustration has been trying to share a general and very real understanding of male-female interaction between men and women, and not being understood. But once I read this post, that changed.

It has become clear to me that no matter WHAT I post, it is going to come with opposition. This has become "argue whatever surf says because its the cool thing to do".

No post has frustrated me more than this one. It seems as though the principles and fundamental understandings that I have been repeating are being ignored.

This the last time I will say it, and the last time I will try and explain it. If some of you want to continue to argue the point, go ahead. I won't be responding to any of it.

ALPHA DOES NOT EQUAL DOOSH BAG.
NICE DOES NOT EQUAL LOSER

GOOD GRIEF!

Yes, I realize that in that movie, Tank is one of the biggest jackasses ever portrayed in film. The fact that Dane Cook plays the character is IRRELEVANT. Dane Cook is an entertainer. He created a persona that some think is funny and some don't. Some think is a doosh and some dont. But focusing on THAT is not missing the point, it is STRAIGHT UP AVOIDING IT.

Many of you are associating "Alpha" with guys like Mike D and Pauly from Jersey Shore. Those guys are NOT Alpha, they are TOOLS. They are stupid, meatheaded, chauvinistic clowns.

This is not a discussion about doosh v non-doosh, at least not from where I am sitting.

I will never agree that women are not generally (80% +) attracted to Alphas.

I will never agree that Alpha = doosh bag Jersey Shore/Dane Cook frat boy azzhole. It is not even close to the truth.

I do not know how else to say it. If you do not get it by now, I can't make you understand. You are all smart people, I can not understand why you can't grasp this concept.

Do you SERIOUSLY think that the women on this forum are like most women running around out there? Are you seriously going to insult all of the women here like that? That is a shame. Because they are not.

Lets address your points in your post head on:

Dane Cook is NOT a source of knowledge on women. That is just ludicrous. I was using that film to illustrate what women find attractive and what they do not IN GENERAL. That movie illustrates an exaggerated example of the "nice guy". Jason Biggs character in that movie is NOT ATTRACTIVE to most women out there. Plain and simple. MOST. Not all. MOST. He is a spineless, weak, pining, sappy, unconfident BOY.

Yet, he would probably be incredibly devoted, sweet, kind, thoughtful, understanding and faithful in a relationship or marriage. It is unfortunate that what he has to offer is not attractive to the majority. It just is not. It is attractive to SOME, but not MOST.

There are 3 basic types of guys, and most of you are confusing them.

1. The devoted nice guy
2. The sexy jerk guy
3. The strong, sexy, admired, responsible leader guy. (The man's man)

#3 is Alpha. #'s 1 and 2 are not.

#'s 2 and 3 are more attractive to MOST women than #1.

Women SAY they want to be with #1 but MOST do not demonstrate that.

#3 is the most attractive.

End of quacking story. It is what it is. Argue all you want, you may win the approval of others on this board, but you will still be wrong.

I have to repeat something because I am very offended by something in this post. To say that the women on this board are just like all those club hopping, media driven, snooki types is...just...insulting. You should really apologize to them. I happen to think a lot more of them than you do apparently.

I do have a better than average understanding of how women work and think. And I happen to be quite successful with women. You can not argue with results.

I was with a wonderful woman for 10 years, and we had 3 kids together. I left her for very good reasons, not after trying to work through it for 2 years with multiple councilors. I did not want it to end, but I would not accept a certain behavior from her. I have rejected MANY quality women for various reasons, most of which were because there was no 'spark' or that real romantic rush of a connection. I am still friends with MANY of them, as when I broke things off, I did it in an adult manner, and they understood. And yes, I have had experiences that most men dream about. I am not trying to brag here, simply illustrating that I have success with women.

I am not that good looking. I am average AT BEST. Slightly out of shape, clean, average face, nothing special. My success with women comes from confidence. Confidence, to a woman IN GENERAL is attractive.


Most of your arguments against what I have said are clinging to the fact that Alpha men are doosh bag guys who manipulate women and act like azzholes.

You are focusing on the wrong thing. Your idea of what an Alpha is, and what an Alpha man actually is are 2 different things.

Last example and then I am throwing my hands up.

Lets take a set of twins. Great looking guys. 30 years old, both dressed exactly alike.

One is a 'nice guy'. He goes into a social situation, say, a chamber mixer or something like that. He stands near the wall, sipping his white zinfandel. His body language communicates that he is uncomfortable and nervous. There are several attractive, single women in attendance, but he is too nervous to talk to them, or anyone. He sticks around for an hour and a half or so, makes some small talk with a few people and leaves.

The other is an 'Alpha'. He comes in, looks around, finds some people to talk to. He is a nice person, kind, happy, etc. But he is comfortable in his surroundings. After about a half hour or so, he is talking in a group of 4-5 people and smiling, joking around and people react to him well. He is obviously having a good time, and people around him are also. By the end of the mixer, he has made 5-10 new contacts and is going with a group of people after to grab a bite to eat, and continue on with some conversation.

Guy #2 is more attractive to women.

All of this argument that Alpha = azzhole doosh is just a way to avoid what the real point I have been making is.

Women are more attracted to Alphas IN GENERAL (not in every case - every person is different) than they are to the 'nice guy'.

It has been illustrated on other threads with guys who have complained about not having any success with women. These are genuinely nice men who can't seem to find a girlfriend because women are more attracted to "jerks" in their mind. Yes, some guys are jerks, and they attract a certain type of women. This is not the rule. The reality is CONFIDENCE is attractive, and Alphas have it. Not all 'nice guys' do.

I hope I have made myself clear now, because I will not respond to any Alpha = doosh arguments. They are stupid.

<<<<<< Chopped liver.

Actually, I may not have if I come to think about it.

It's early still.

I'm alpha as f*ck.

Please stop using the A-word.

COME AT ME, BRO!

You know that feeling when you read/say a word so many times that it kinda loses it's meaning and seems like it's not even a real word? That's how I feel about "Alpha" at this point.

It never really had meaning to begin with.

I agree with the sentiment that assholes attract each other, and it is best to just stay out of their way. I am at least as attracted to a woman's intelligence, maturity, and judgement as I am to their outward physical appearance. Honestly if I meet a girl who shows a predilection for fawning over jerks, I am just going to leave her to it, and it will not bother me, because she will not be attractive in my eyes. If you do meet a woman who is less than society's preconceived notions about what makes someone beautiful, but she loves you, supports you, and makes you happy you will soon find out she was gorgeous all along and you just did not notice it at first. I am a lot more interested in a partner vs a one night stand with a stuck up chick with big boobs and a wasp waist.

Sorry but I've been disagreeing with a lot of what you've been saying because I disagree with what you've been saying - not because you're the one saying it. To say we're all jumping on the 'hate surf' bandwagon is insulting to me as I feel like you're saying that I can't think for myself.

Now to go back to my previous post in which I answered your question of why we seem to think that alphas are jerks, I should have added that I also think that about a's from my own personal experiences. I deal with a lot of politicians at work and they are all a's - charismatic as all get out (I mean, how could they get elected if they weren't?) but a vast majority of the ones I've personally dealt with were jerks. Not because they're rude but because they're very self-absorbed and talk a lot yet say nothing. So while I agree with you that a=/=dbag, that doesn't automatically mean that I (and probably many others on this board) agree that a's are all-around likeable guys.

I feel like you keep confusing the issue further by using 'nice guy' as the antithesis of 'alpha.' (Sorry guys, I felt like I needed to type it out completely this time. From reading your posts I have seen that you are referring to guys with low self-esteem and low confidence as the opposite of the a-man but describing them as the 'nice guy' just kind of makes the reader think of a jerk/dbag when 'alpha' is then used as its opposite. Unfortunately that's just how it is.

So there's my two cents on the matter...although I do need to add one more little thing in regards to your "joke" from before: You asked if I'd consider a misogynist prick to be awesome because you don't, well when I first saw that "joke" I kind of assumed that you did based on your previous post where you said you'd "tool" a guy who was trying to get with your girl by asking him to babysit her or say that she gets distracted by shiny objects. It was pretty clear to me that you considered this the behaviour of an awesome person (because why would anyone consider themselves to be anything but awesome?). Regardless of your later statement that it was just a joke and that all people get distracted by shiny objects, I just want to know why you feel it necessary to "tool" a guy not by insulting him but by insulting the girl you're with. I'm just genuinely curious about this. I personally find it degrading and manipulative. But that's just my opinion.

I LOL'ed.

the 'shiny object' comment could be replaced with anything. The point of the intereaction was to tool a guy who was trying to scoop my girl instead of getting in a physical altercation. Through text, I can see where it could come off as insulting, but it truly, honestly isn't.

Here is why: When you are around your friends, those who you are comfortable with, you occasionally playfully tease each other in a light, upbeat way, right? Like joking around, and nobody would ever take offense. Like stuff you would say to your brother or sister. Its said to amuse, not to insult. PLEASE TELL ME YOU KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. Guys do it more than women probably, busting each others chops about this or that, but it is in no way personally insulting, EVER. Its just playful teasing, not meant to harm.

When I am with a girl, I expect her to have some wit to her, and tease back playfully. Not all the time, and not meant to be mean. Joking.

That is what the 'shiny object' comment was for. But depending on the girl I was with, I might say something completely different and equally as playful and flirty.


I can understand why (A) got interpreted as d-bag now. That was not my intent.

I guess I should have worded things differently. Lets try this:

Nice guys who are not confident are less likely to get the girl than confident guys are. Not all nice guys are unconfident and not all confident guys are nice.

Awesome guys are just that - awesome. (girls too) Its positive, not negative.

Thank you for your post, and your clear communication without resorting to insults, condescending remarks or assumtions. I appreciate it.

What's the problem here? You guys can't agree on the definitions of "nice guy" and "alpha". I'll try to help:

A "nice guy" is one of those irritating asskissing, clingy, needy wussbags who will do anything, buy anything, or change anything about himself to garner the attention of any female. He hides his true nature because he's too insecure to show anyone who he really is, and mimics lead characters in chick flicks. He thinks that you have to be tall, good-looking, and rich to be worthy of the affection of his dream girl, so he's essentially manipulative to her and dishonest with himself and the females he's lucky enough to interact with. If he does end up with a girlfriend, she's usually very controlling and mean to him because he doesn't have the spine or the self-esteem to believe that he deserves better. So he puts up with either being henpecked or secretly in love with a girl who whines to him all about the "jerks" who don't treat her like a disney princess but still gets her affection and other things he wishes he was getting from her.
That's what a "nice guy" is when someone like surfbum says "nice guys finish in a napkin".

An "alpha" (yeah, I said it. ALPHA! ALPHA!) is a man who isn't afraid to show his true, masculine self to anyone. He has good leadership skills; takes care of himself, his stuff, and his inner circle; he knows what his purpose is in life and he goes after it; has control over his own emotions; has a good sense of humor and isn't afraid of offending a woman that he's attracted to, and he doesn't put the woman of his choice in the center of his universe or above his life's purpose; doesn't fall head-over-heels over every woman who shows any sliver of interest in him; and doesn't pressure her to put out just because he bought her dinner and drinks.

Someone used Maynardave, Duddits, and Zapp as examples of "nice guys". I don't know Zapp or Duddits in person but I do know "Dave" and Abra. He is DEFINITELY an alpha. He doesn't cling to his wife 24/7, doesn't kiss her ass, or get jealous or insecure about his wife having male friends. He takes good care of his family and behaves like a real man should. He once observed an interaction I had with a beautiful and very cool woman and when the girls weren't around, said to me "Dude, I'm impressed. You got game." I said to him "Yeah, well you got Dee to marry you and start a family. YOU are the one here with game."

Thanks surfbumdj. It's definitely one day at a time. I am with you; I have never experienced such a profound loss either, so I don't know if what I am doing for her is what she needs or what is best for her. We just take it one day at a time, and enjoy every moment that we can. She is the strongest, most amazing person I have ever met and is a complete inspiration to me in every sense of the word.