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In 2014 and again in 2018 Nine Inch Nails are playing a 3,000 venue in Berlin. The venue is a courtyard of an old Berlin fortress where the green arena in the middle in turned into a stage and GA standing spot. In the US, even Bakersfield, CA has a 10k venue for Nine Inch Nails to play, which they did this year
No, that's because they want to play at that venue, not because there are not other venues in Berlin available.. But you're right tho.. The venue options in the US are wider and bigger than in the EU. In Belgium we've got one venue for up to 20/25k people, one of 8k, one of 5k and that's about it for big venues here.. Most bands like Fleet Foxes who haven't achieved big (radio) succes play the AB with a size of 3k and sometimes do multiple evenings..
Only downside is that the conflicts on Thursday (for my tastes at least) are almost guaranteed to be terrible. Daily lineup:
Nope, big acts won't clash because they've got 2 big stages.. This is the clashfinder I made, though the smaller acts are harder to set up where they'd play Saturday is confirmed by the organisation to be QOTSA - DM - NiN with Jack Johnson on the second stage.. clashfinder.com/s/mcf18/
Oh yeah and the last 2 headliners for Friday will probably be either Arctic Monkeys, Jack White or Kendrick Lamar.. That's what the rumours are saying atleast..
Last Edit: Dec 14, 2017 10:34:53 GMT -5 by Bing - Back to Top
My hypothesis for why festivals are better and passes are cheaper in Europe: the 8-15k seat outdoor amphitheaters never caught on in Europe like they did in the US. Fleet Foxes can go play SPAC or Merriweather post, and have a venue that perfectly fits their "fanbase". Those places dont really exist in Europe so they are faced with playing either a 1-2k seat club, a festival, or a basketball arena. This gives bands significantly less bargaining power so the fests can charge less for the bands to play these fests. An example: In 2014 and again in 2018 Nine Inch Nails are playing a 3,000 venue in Berlin. The venue is a courtyard of an old Berlin fortress where the green arena in the middle in turned into a stage and GA standing spot. In the US, even Bakersfield, CA has a 10k venue for Nine Inch Nails to play, which they did this year
Logic is a beautiful thing. This makes a lot of sense.
My hypothesis for why festivals are better and passes are cheaper in Europe: the 8-15k seat outdoor amphitheaters never caught on in Europe like they did in the US. Fleet Foxes can go play SPAC or Merriweather post, and have a venue that perfectly fits their "fanbase". Those places dont really exist in Europe so they are faced with playing either a 1-2k seat club, a festival, or a basketball arena. This gives bands significantly less bargaining power so the fests can charge less for the bands to play these fests. An example: In 2014 and again in 2018 Nine Inch Nails are playing a 3,000 venue in Berlin. The venue is a courtyard of an old Berlin fortress where the green arena in the middle in turned into a stage and GA standing spot. In the US, even Bakersfield, CA has a 10k venue for Nine Inch Nails to play, which they did this year
Europe has plenty of available big venues though, and NIN just never made it as big over there as in the US (which is why the production of tours like Lights in the Sky and Tension never made it out of the USA).
One thing to consider: the purchasing power of Europeans versus Americans. Also that Europeans won't accept the type of bullshit concert prices as over here.
Only downside is that the conflicts on Thursday (for my tastes at least) are almost guaranteed to be terrible. Daily lineup:
Nope, big acts won't clash because they've got 2 big stages.. This is the clashfinder I made, though the smaller acts are harder to set up where they'd play Saturday is confirmed by the organisation to be QOTSA - DM - NiN with Jack Johnson on the second stage.. clashfinder.com/s/mcf18/
Oh yeah and the last 2 headliners for Friday will probably be either Arctic Monkeys, Jack White or Kendrick Lamar.. That's what the rumours are saying atleast..
Just had a thought regarding the second Friday headliner (assuming Arctic Monkeys are a lock at this point). What about LCD Soundsystem? They fit the hints given by the Mad Cool insider. Plus their European tour runs from 25 May to 20 June, with no dates in Belgium or Denmark. Makes me think they might stick around for Tinderbox and Rock Werchter (they didn't play either festival in 2016 or 2017). I know they're already booked for Sonar, but I don't think that necessarily rules them out since Sonar and Bilbao BBK Live are sharing Gorillaz.
Same, I'm planning my trip after today's announcement aswell :')
Nope, big acts won't clash because they've got 2 big stages.. This is the clashfinder I made, though the smaller acts are harder to set up where they'd play Saturday is confirmed by the organisation to be QOTSA - DM - NiN with Jack Johnson on the second stage.. clashfinder.com/s/mcf18/
Oh yeah and the last 2 headliners for Friday will probably be either Arctic Monkeys, Jack White or Kendrick Lamar.. That's what the rumours are saying atleast..
Just had a thought regarding the second Friday headliner (assuming Arctic Monkeys are a lock at this point). What about LCD Soundsystem? They fit the hints given by the Mad Cool insider. Plus their European tour runs from 25 May to 20 June, with no dates in Belgium or Denmark. Makes me think they might stick around for Tinderbox and Rock Werchter (they didn't play either festival in 2016 or 2017). I know they're already booked for Sonar, but I don't think that necessarily rules them out since Sonar and Bilbao BBK Live are sharing Gorillaz.
LCD are playing Heartland Festival in Denmark in June. BBK and Sonar are already sharing Gorillaz, so Sonar probably won't share LCD as well. Makes little sense from Sonar's side to let both your biggest acts play in another festival not that far away, let alone having LCD play the peninsula four times in four weeks.
11/19: Caribou 11/22: Ranger Trucco 11/29: Armand Van Helden* 1/16: L'Impératrice 1/30: Jamie xx 2/1: DJ Seinfeld 2/7: Mild Minds* 3/1: Father John Misty* 3/19: Confidence Man 3/23: DARKSIDE 5/8: Rüfüs Du Sol
* = Still need to buy tix
DT
Showerless Shakedown Vendor Save our stages dude
Alright so I've been wanting to attend Primavera for years and 2018 might finally be my chance, but Mad Cool is really tempting me. Argh! Any tips on deciding?
Post by hookersnblow on Dec 15, 2017 18:06:31 GMT -5
I went to Primavera last year and had a lot of fun. Barcelona is a gorgeous city, and I am of the opinion that if you fly over to Europe to attend a festival and don't take some time to do some touristy things that you have wasted an incredible opportunity. Sure, wait to see what both lineups look like before making a decision, but I would include your desire to visit the destination city in your decision calculus.
Alright so I've been wanting to attend Primavera for years and 2018 might finally be my chance, but Mad Cool is really tempting me. Argh! Any tips on deciding?
Just look at previous Primavera lineups and schedules over the past five years, examine it carefully (not just the headliners). Then go here and pick on the blue ones, just to get a grip of what's expected to come. If it's your thing, you'll know it. My friend has said last year: "Nothing in this world is a sure thing anymore, expect for the lineup of Primavera". I couldn't agree more, so I'm going there for the third straight year. Mad Cool's lineup is shaping up really nice but has a dozen of acts I've seen in Primavera 2016+2017 along with some Werchter stuff, so to me it's just not that special. As much as I love Tame Impala, I've already seen them three times in the Currents tour and there's no indication of new material before 2019. QOTSA and Justice are a huge plus in my book, but I'm 200% sure Primavera is gonna top that, along with Barcelona and the lovely Parc del Forum.
Alright so I've been wanting to attend Primavera for years and 2018 might finally be my chance, but Mad Cool is really tempting me. Argh! Any tips on deciding?
Primavera has been on my bucket list as well, but Mad Cool has an once in a decade lineup. You can always hop a train to Barcelona to check out the city for a few days. I’m personally doing Rock Werchter, a few days in Barcelona and Mad Cool.
When you look at bands touring in Europe, it’s kind of slim pickings for Primavera. Mad Cool isn’t turning much of a profit on this lineup and it looks like this year was done with long-term growth in mind.
Alright so I've been wanting to attend Primavera for years and 2018 might finally be my chance, but Mad Cool is really tempting me. Argh! Any tips on deciding?
Primavera has been on my bucket list as well, but Mad Cool has an once in a decade lineup. You can always hop a train to Barcelona to check out the city for a few days. I’m personally doing Rock Werchter, a few days in Barcelona and Mad Cool.
When you look at bands touring in Europe, it’s kind of slim pickings for Primavera. Mad Cool isn’t turning much of a profit on this lineup and it looks like this year was done with long-term growth in mind.
Sounds like Primavera is just not your taste, so go to Werchter/Mad Cool. But keep in mind that the last time Primavera has released its poster in January, the biggest two acts in it couldn't have been announced earlier - both Radiohead and LCD Soundsystem officially came back in January, among others. Primavera will release its (almost) complete poster at once, and the last couple of years it happened the day Frank Ocean and Radiohead have started announcing concerts. Delaying the poster until January might indicate they got another big, unexpected act cooking up.
Primavera has been on my bucket list as well, but Mad Cool has an once in a decade lineup. You can always hop a train to Barcelona to check out the city for a few days. I’m personally doing Rock Werchter, a few days in Barcelona and Mad Cool.
When you look at bands touring in Europe, it’s kind of slim pickings for Primavera. Mad Cool isn’t turning much of a profit on this lineup and it looks like this year was done with long-term growth in mind.
Sounds like Primavera is just not your taste, so go to Werchter/Mad Cool. But keep in mind that the last time Primavera has released its poster in January, the biggest two acts in it couldn't have been announced earlier - both Radiohead and LCD Soundsystem officially came back in January, among others. Primavera will release its (almost) complete poster at once, and the last couple of years it happened the day Frank Ocean and Radiohead have started announcing concerts. Delaying the poster until January might indicate they got another big, unexpected act cooking up.
Primavera consistently has some of the best lineups of any festival, but to have the top couple lines be Pearl Jam, QOTSA, Tame Impala, Depeche Mode, Arctic Monkeys/Jack White (rumored), Nine Inch Nails, Alice In Chains, Jack Johnson (listed last for a reason) etc. is pretty unheard of, considering the rest of the lineup is just as deep.
My understanding is The National and Bjork are two of Primaveras rumored headliners (Jack White is playing in Europe a week before Mad Cool, but definitely possible for Primavera), so while those are some big names you’re still going to be looking at 3-4 headliners versus 9-11 headliners (Massive Attack and Fleet Foxes are borderline headliner depending on festival size).
Granted Primavera has always been known for very eclectic lineups, with names you won’t find at many other festivals, but this appears to be an instance of Live Nation trying to eat into Primavera’s market share by 1) partnering with other festivals to book headliners 2) releasing most of the lineup early 3) finding a venue that can host up to 80,000 vs. 55,000 per day. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that’s a fan of Live Nation, but them trying to establish the Mad Cool brand long-term benefited festival goers this year at least.
One thing worth taking into consideration is that over 50% of Primavera’s attendees are from other countries, so if Mad Cool is similar I’m not sure what the hotel/Airbnb situation will be like in a few months.
Sounds like Primavera is just not your taste, so go to Werchter/Mad Cool. But keep in mind that the last time Primavera has released its poster in January, the biggest two acts in it couldn't have been announced earlier - both Radiohead and LCD Soundsystem officially came back in January, among others. Primavera will release its (almost) complete poster at once, and the last couple of years it happened the day Frank Ocean and Radiohead have started announcing concerts. Delaying the poster until January might indicate they got another big, unexpected act cooking up.
Primavera consistently has some of the best lineups of any festival, but to have the top couple lines be Pearl Jam, QOTSA, Tame Impala, Depeche Mode, Arctic Monkeys/Jack White (rumored), Nine Inch Nails, Alice In Chains, Jack Johnson (listed last for a reason) etc. is pretty unheard of, considering the rest of the lineup is just as deep.
My understanding is The National and Bjork are two of Primaveras rumored headliners (Jack White is playing in Europe a week before Mad Cool, but definitely possible for Primavera), so while those are some big names you’re still going to be looking at 3-4 headliners versus 9-11 headliners (Massive Attack and Fleet Foxes are borderline headliner depending on festival size).
Granted Primavera has always been known for very eclectic lineups, with names you won’t find at many other festivals, but this appears to be an instance of Live Nation trying to eat into Primavera’s market share by 1) partnering with other festivals to book headliners 2) releasing most of the lineup early 3) finding a venue that can host up to 80,000 vs. 55,000 per day. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that’s a fan of Live Nation, but them trying to establish the Mad Cool brand long-term benefited festival goers this year at least.
One thing worth taking into consideration is that over 50% of Primavera’s attendees are from other countries, so if Mad Cool is similar I’m not sure what the hotel/Airbnb situation will be like in a few months.
We're talking about an unknown lineup, right? You just can't quantify headliners like that. Especially when Alice In Chains and Jack Johnson really are not headliner material (but Justice is). Last year Primavera had 9 (co-)headliners. The National, Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds and possibly Bjork will only be 3 co-headliners, which also played as such in the past, when the festival was smaller with less budget. There's also talk of Lorde, Kendrick, Jack White, Arctic Monkeys among others. That poster of Garorock with Jack White headlining two weeks before is wrong (at least for now, White was replaced by Marilyn Manson). The Garorock crew has fucked up as they sent Macklemore a wrong version of the poster. Primavera's festival director has said back in October that they are trying to bring Jack White, but the booking process is complicated because they need to book him along with other festivals. This week he made another hint - was asked if this is finally the year of White and answered "I think so". I think that's a stronger indication than any of Mad Cool's that he'll end up in Barcelona.
I'm going to Primavera regardless of the lineup because it's just so damn good each and every year, and I trust them that 2018 will be another one of those.
Post by thisishappening on Dec 16, 2017 10:56:37 GMT -5
Primavera rarely disappoints when it comes to lineup, so I’m sure this year will be no exception. It’s probably the closest equivalent to Panorama in the U.S., while the Mad Cool lineup does lean a little bit more mainstream. The War on Drugs, Chvrches, Yeah, Yeah, Yeahs and Courtney Barnett/Kurt Vile are all bands I would have gladly traded a couple headliners for, so hopefully they end up on the Primavera lineup.
It is difficult to see Arctic Monkeys and Jack White showing up on both lineups so close together, but if neither festival wanted to pay a premium for exclusivity who knows. I’m sure each festival will at least get one of the two.
Primavera rarely disappoints when it comes to lineup, so I’m sure this year will be no exception. It’s probably the closest equivalent to Panorama in the U.S., while the Mad Cool lineup does lean a little bit more mainstream. The War on Drugs, Chvrches, Yeah, Yeah, Yeahs and Courtney Barnett/Kurt Vile are all bands I would have gladly traded a couple headliners for, so hopefully they end up on the Primavera lineup.
It is difficult to see Arctic Monkeys and Jack White showing up on both lineups so close together, but if neither festival wanted to pay a premium for exclusivity who knows. I’m sure each festival will at least get one of the two.
Courtney and Kurt aren't touring together outside the US, the festival director has said - but Courtney is releasing a new album in 2018 and opening for Nick Cave on the Sunday, so I'm 99.99% sure she is booked.
I don't know if the US festival has any equivalent to Primavera, including the massive depth, the free museum gigs, the fact that it runs all week long and the included indoor evenings. Obviously the fact that Primavera is running all night long makes a huge difference in the atmosphere. Perhaps the closest one is FYF Fest, with its underground roots. This year FYF even booked Primavera's head of booking (Fra Soler aka DJ Fra) for a set.
The festival director has also claimed that the festivals usually aren't the ones behind exclusive gigs. Here's an explanation he made this week on the booking department of PS, how they book bands, exclusives, etc. Very interesting read IMO, so I used Google Translate and put it on Docs.
1. Again. Rock Werchter and Mad Cool booked a lot of their artists together (because they're both under LiveNation, because of the absence of Glastonbury and more importantly because LiveNation wants to make a major out of Mad Cool, that's not easy when you're having Bilbao BBk, Download, Benicassim and a month earlier Primavera in Spain). This line up is solely based on the futuristic vision of LiveNation to build another major, not from the organisation itself. 2. My contact said that Mad Cool & Rock Werchter will have a lot in common, like 15ish names..? 3. My contact said that LCD might not tour the whole summer in Europe, haven't looked at their schedule if they could still be in play for PS but I think so. (though I think, they replaced Frank this year, no?) 4. Saying that PS only had 3 headliners is wrong. They had 4 and in total 9 big names. Mad Cool had 3 this year and now 5.. Also, Primavera is more than the headliners anyway, no? Mad Cool is becoming a real major this year with a great undercard, top-down programmed. So comparing both of them is a bit weird since they're both total different festivals. I'd compare Primavera with Roskilde or Best kept Secret.. Panorama is just a rather alternative festival, tho? There are barely acts on that line up where I think "Damn, I've never heard of about 20 artists on that bill, I should probably discover them and listen to them before going.." 5. My contact said that Mad Cool will announce some names that aren't in the circuit yet in January (like Tame Impala a few days ago).
Post by thisishappening on Dec 16, 2017 12:01:40 GMT -5
I'm not knocking Primavera's potential lineup by any means. It's consistently one of the best lineups every year. I'm simply saying that this year a lot of things came together to make Mad Cool an exceptionally good lineup and to think LiveNation isn't trying to target Primavera would be naive. Mad Cool went big this year, made the decision to get their lineup out first and they definitely succeeded in getting people to notice it.
But agreed, Primavera has always been about the incredibly deep and diverse undercards. It'll no doubt have a great lineup, but I'm just of the opinion we won't see a lineup like Mad Cool for awhile. While Mad Cool only lists 5 headliners, there will likely be 11 that have headlined fairly large festivals by my count.
1. Again. Rock Werchter and Mad Cool booked a lot of their artists together (because they're both under LiveNation, because of the absence of Glastonbury and more importantly because LiveNation wants to make a major out of Mad Cool, that's not easy when you're having Bilbao BBk, Download, Benicassim and a month earlier Primavera in Spain). This line up is solely based on the futuristic vision of LiveNation to build another major, not from the organisation itself. 2. My contact said that Mad Cool & Rock Werchter will have a lot in common, like 15ish names..? 3. My contact said that LCD might not tour the whole summer in Europe, haven't looked at their schedule if they could still be in play for PS but I think so. (though I think, they replaced Frank this year, no?) 4. Saying that PS only had 3 headliners is wrong. They had 4 and in total 9 big names. Mad Cool had 3 this year and now 5.. Also, Primavera is more than the headliners anyway, no? Mad Cool is becoming a real major this year with a great undercard, top-down programmed. So comparing both of them is a bit weird since they're both total different festivals. I'd compare Primavera with Roskilde or Best kept Secret.. Panorama is just a rather alternative festival, tho? There are barely acts on that line up where I think "Damn, I've never heard of about 20 artists on that bill, I should probably discover them and listen to them before going.." 5. My contact said that Mad Cool will announce some names that aren't in the circuit yet in January (like Tame Impala a few days ago).
1+2. I think that's the reason Werchter is holding it back for now, they really are trying to establish Mad Cool's international presence. A huge chunk of Werchter attendance is local anyway (Belgian+Dutch), while Mad Cool has actual competition in Spain.
3. LCD played PS in 2016, I've seen them twice (including a surprise gig two days before the headline spot - best concert of my life! This year they are playing Sonar. I would've love to see them once so I might go to Best Kept Secret after Primavera Anyway, LCD played so many festivals back in 2016, I don't think they will tour Europe the whole summer...
5. The January prediction makes sense considering the price raise and the American posters that will start coming out right after Coachella. Suddenly the picture will become much clearer, just like every year.
I know quite a few acts who are confirmed but not announced yet haha
