Whether it's your first Bonnaroo or you’re a music festival veteran, we welcome you to Inforoo.
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the problem with this analogy is this lineup isn't a 2017 nissan GTR. it's a toyota corolla. with U2 racing stripes.
The biggest problem with this analogy is that it's a massive pile of shit. The most common retort I keep hearing with respect to the lineup is "the music is great, people love Marshmello, you're just out of touch and don't like electronic music." That's a load of horseshit. There are plenty of people who absolutely love electronic music and completely respect and appreciate it as an art form who think this lineup is full of watered down, lowest common denominator garbage.
It's like if someone brings me a McDonald's burger on a platter, and I'm like "eh, no thanks." It's not that I don't like burgers (I fucking love burgers), it's that I don't really want to eat an oversalted slab of grease, fat and gristle. I'm aware that McDonald's sells millions of burgers, and that millions of people think their burgers are the fucking best and will shovel them in their faceholes until they can't breathe properly, but that doesn't change the fact that they're pretty gross. Telling me that the only reason I don't like Big Macs is because I fail to appreciate that times have changed and that this is what a fucking burger is now is reductive, simplistic, and so stupid that I almost can't process it.
If AC was in charge of McDonald's and got challenged about the taste of a Big Mac, he'd just laugh and call it "good fun". That's the new official party line on the music that we have in print. Good fun.
Funny you bring up marshmello. With your multiple characters. Edm is a dying genre. It's so played out that all kinds of gimmicks are necessary to stay relevant. The burger thing again? Really? So what are you saying, you don't like this slab of grease but you like that slab of grease. Just wondering why you post so much on a board that is dedicated for roo, when you hate what roo has become?
Funny you bring up marshmello. With your multiple characters. Edm is a dying genre. It's so played out that all kinds of gimmicks are necessary to stay relevant. The burger thing again? Really? So what are you saying, you don't like this slab of grease but you like that slab of grease. Just wondering why you post so much on a board that is dedicated for roo, when you hate what roo has become?
You might not like EDM, but surely you realize how foolish you sound, right?
It's like people saying in the 80's that rap/hip hop was a fad and would go away.
I've enjoyed EDM on several occasions at Bonnaroo and other fests and it certainly makes for a fun party atmosphere but I do wonder if it will stand the test of time in the same way hip hop has. But hey, I'm an old dude, so what do I know.
You might not like EDM, but surely you realize how foolish you sound, right?
It's like people saying in the 80's that rap/hip hop was a fad and would go away.
I've enjoyed EDM on several occasions at Bonnaroo and other fests and it certainly makes for a fun party atmosphere but I do wonder if it will stand the test of time in the same way hip hop has. But hey, I'm an old dude, so what do I know.
Well, various forms of electronic dance music have been around since a bunch of gay black dudes invented techno in Detroit, not to mention the commercial dance music that was popular in Europe 20 years ago. Hell, Tiesto played Roo in 2008. It'll have staying power.
I think the original answer of "Yes" is correct, but I'm going overanalyze anyway in my quest for what will inevitably be the same conclusion.
To figure out if bonnaroo is now a second tier fest, we first need to figure out: a) was it top tier to begin with, if so what fests did it compare to at top tier b) if roo is no longer top tier what fests does it compare to at second tier
Once bonnaroo branched to a more diversere lineup in mid to late 2000's it was assuredly a top tier lineup. No skin off the nose of the early jam centered iterations, but when the lineup branched out from jam to have a yearly eclectic lineup it caught the attention of more people and more fans of music. They could consistently book the biggest top bill names in rock, both legacy wise (Springsteen, Tom Petty, McCartney, Elton John) and relevancy wise (Arcade Fire, Black Keys, Jack White, Mumford n Sons, all following their new albums and explosions in popularity). Along with these AAA headliners would be a tremendously deep undercard that would feature a solid half dozen to a dozen relevant and established artists on the bottom half of the lineup that would be the upper undercard on any other second tier festival lineup.
From roughly 2006 to 2015 bonnaroo's expansive and diverse lineups could compete with anything put out by the other premiere US fest, namely Coachella and Lollapalooza. While Lolla's tastes likely differ from the tastes of those on this board, they can be seen as a top tier fest due to their history, continuity and name recognition: they've been doing it for two decades in Chicago and now have events worldwide. Coachella became has top tier status dues to their egularly fantastic bookings, and yearly bonnaroo and Coachella would compete for top US festival lineup.
That's changed with this year's bonnaroo lineup. Bonnaroo is no longer competing to be a top tier destination festival like Coachella. They both have huge gets for their top headliner spot (Beyonce for Coachella and U2 for roo). However, while Coachella succeeded in booking a deep undercard, bonnaroo failed. Bonnaroo lacks any of the sort of established bands that Coachella has on their undercard. This iteration of bonnaroo seemed to focus on nothing more than grabbing a big headliner and then jumbling together whoever they could find for the undercard.
To sum it up, bonnaroo has dropped from a top tier destination festival to south's big second tier regional festival. It is no longer a premiere destination fest in the vein of Coachella of Lolla. It's now competing as a for the south as a regional festival similar to Firefly in the Mid Atlantic. This lineup with U2 and then whoever is popular on spotify+youtube is much like Firefly's huge booking of McCartney plus a random undercard a few years ago. They are now focused competing for the $ of concert goers in the SE and Gulf states like Firefly does in the NE.
Bonnaroo is no longer a top tier destination festival, but a second tier regional festival. RIP
If it wasn't last year, it is now. I'd rather go to Mountain Jam. I won't, but I still loooooooove Tom Petty and I've somehow never seen Steve Miller, and he is somehow still touring. Their partial lineup isn't especially compelling, but it isn't horrible. I'll probably go to Nelsonville (OH), a bunch of random Cleveland and Akron shows, and no major festivals this year. I'll keep hope alive for a revival next year, or the next year, or... Or when I finally get sick enough of snow and ice to move to Austin and can do ACL or SXSW. For locals, Bonnaroo still might make perfect sense, but not for a lot of us not within a few hours of Manchester. /wetblanket
You might not like EDM, but surely you realize how foolish you sound, right?
It's like people saying in the 80's that rap/hip hop was a fad and would go away.
I know plenty of fellow white people who still think rap sounds like beat boxing and the cheezey 80's-style rhymes you hear on commercials, and that it's just ghetto thug rhythm. They're wrong, but that perception persists. EDM is certainly not dying, but it is a scene that's evolving, like every other type of modern music. Personally, I like some electronic music, but EDM is like pop, pop country, nu metal or smooth jazz in that it doesn't do much for me, not that it matters.
Tier 1 Coachella Lolla ACL (If you were to count Europe, Primavera and Glastonbury would be here)
Tier 2 Jazzfest (could make an argument for being Tier 1) Outside Lands Bonnaroo Hangout Govs Ball Firefly Panorama Osheaga Wayhome Boston Calling (2017)
Tier 3 - mostly smaller regional fests and major niche fests Newport Folk (could argue it's a tier 2) Shaky Knees Mountain Jam The Meadows Peach Levitation Moogfest MOEMS (when it existed) Boston Calling (pre 2017)
If it wasn't last year, it is now. I'd rather go to Mountain Jam. I won't, but I still loooooooove Tom Petty and I've somehow never seen Steve Miller, and he is somehow still touring. Their partial lineup isn't especially compelling, but it isn't horrible. I'll probably go to Nelsonville (OH), a bunch of random Cleveland and Akron shows, and no major festivals this year. I'll keep hope alive for a revival next year, or the next year, or... Or when I finally get sick enough of snow and ice to move to Austin and can do ACL or SXSW. For locals, Bonnaroo still might make perfect sense, but not for a lot of us not within a few hours of Manchester. /wetblanket
That little laurelive fest is looking pretty nice.
That little laurelive fest is looking pretty nice.
Did you go last year? I hadn't even heard of it before last week. Looks to be especially family friendly. Downside is no camping, no outside anything, so smoking (I don't smoke anyway, but that seems odd at a festival), no late night (over at 11), no wagons for the munchkins. Upside: close (for me), single day tickets are $60, probably not much walking required, plenty of decent restaurants within a 10-20 minute drive if you don't dig the vendors, presumably no wook/mollied-up bro contingent to deal with.
Very nice setting, I went to high school just up the road from there. Maybe I'll try to make it up there that Saturday to see Gary Clark and St. Paul & the Broken Bones. Not a bad lineup for a small festival. I just wish we had a bigger, more diverse fest in the area because I love the whole experience.
That little laurelive fest is looking pretty nice.
Did you go last year? I hadn't even heard of it before last week. Looks to be especially family friendly. Downside is no camping, no outside anything, so smoking (I don't smoke anyway, but that seems odd at a festival), no late night (over at 11), no wagons for the munchkins. Upside: close (for me), single day tickets are $60, probably not much walking required, plenty of decent restaurants within a 10-20 minute drive if you don't dig the vendors, presumably no wook/mollied-up bro contingent to deal with.
Very nice setting, I went to high school just up the road from there. Maybe I'll try to make it up there that Saturday to see Gary Clark and St. Paul & the Broken Bones. Not a bad lineup for a small festival. I just wish we had a bigger, more diverse fest in the area because I love the whole experience.
I didn't go last year. It was on the same weekend as Bonnaroo last year too. I wish it weren't because I live fairly close to it too. It looks like a neat little fest for locals, but I doubt it could attract anyone from outside the region. It's basically a (pretty impressive) fundraiser for the private girls' school.
Post by fake neil young on Jan 18, 2017 21:42:39 GMT -5
Has anyone on here been to Primavera? I'd love to go sometime, but I'm not sure if I'd put it on a tier with Coachella & Glastonbury above everything else. The lineup's awesome if you want an excellent lineup of Pitchfork favorites, but they don't quite match the scale of Glasto (which books everyone) and Coachella (which books a heavier set of indie/pop stars). Don't get me wrong, Arcade Fire / Bon Iver / Frank Ocean is a stellar top line, but it doesn't tap the scale of Radiohead / Beyonce / Kendrick Lamar IMO. Glastonbury's 2017 lineup isn't out yet, but last year's (Adele/Coldplay/Muse/LCD) is also notable step up from Primavera in terms of scale/popularity.
It consistently has an amazing lineup, definitely. But I wouldn't list it with Glastonbury and Coachella, both of which consistently book massive lineups.
Has anyone on here been to Primavera? I'd love to go sometime, but I'm not sure if I'd put it on a tier with Coachella & Glastonbury above everything else. The lineup's awesome if you want an excellent lineup of Pitchfork favorites, but they don't quite match the scale of Glasto (which books everyone) and Coachella (which books a heavier set of indie/pop stars). Don't get me wrong, Arcade Fire / Bon Iver / Frank Ocean is a stellar top line, but it doesn't tap the scale of Radiohead / Beyonce / Kendrick Lamar IMO. Glastonbury's 2017 lineup isn't out yet, but last year's (Adele/Coldplay/Muse/LCD) is also notable step up from Primavera in terms of scale/popularity.
It consistently has an amazing lineup, definitely. But I wouldn't list it with Glastonbury and Coachella, both of which consistently book massive lineups.
Can't compare: Glastonbury and Coachella are much less of an acquired taste. You shouldn't be attending Primavera if seeing massive acts is what you are after.
Post by stairwellbaby on Jan 19, 2017 0:47:37 GMT -5
Glastonbury is otherworldly compared to Roo. There is no division between camping and festival grounds. The South East Corner is an insane playground/amusement park of all night excitement. There are multiple hidden areas (some more than others) and easter eggs. There is NO commercial sponsorship at all. Essentially all of the "Profits" are donated to charities. You can show up at Glastonbury without anything and get a tent, all the supplies you need and not be ripped off at all. There are multiple Oxfam thrift stores that sell cheap clothing.
We are head back for the second time this year. Probably skipping Roo. We did both last year, but it is pretty brutal with all the travel and sleep alterations and such. Also Roo pissed me off with the throwing us out due to inclement weather, when we were camped in BFE (a good 40 minute walk) and advised us to find someone closer to shelter with. Kinda hard when all your friends are camped near you.
I can't see anyone attending Glastonbury and even comparing Roo to it. That would be like comparing a high school football game to a game at a Major University. Most all of the same elements are there, but everything is turned up to an 11. You can start with he fact that tickets are essentially won, and everyone there feels like they won the lottery. Even Coachella Tickets sell at or below full price in the last few weeks before the festival. There is very little ticket resale (you need to find someone around your age that looks like you and hope they don't ask for your ID when go in). Not to mention you can have open camp fires and there are multiple that Glasto or other charities keep burning (we had one at our camp on a major road every night and had people hang out and drink with us). The infrastructure and stages are beyond anything at any US Festival I have been to.
There are so many Festivals in Europe, essentially no one there has ever even heard of Roo. Most know Coachella, a few Lolla, and everyone knows Burning Man. Bonnaroo would be a pretty minor festival, as far as European Festivals go. The camping and the crowd make Roo fun, but last year things felt a bit different.
The only thing I have been to that is as massive and unique (in a different way) than Glasto is SXSW, and we spend a week there every year. It is a beast unto itself, as Glasto is.
There is a decent chance I will Roo next year (There is no Glasto) or I might hit Primevera and NOS in Spain/Portugal.
Post by Jake Jortles on Jan 24, 2017 10:07:53 GMT -5
The Dark Knight quote... something like "Die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villain," keeps popping in my head when I think about the last two lineups and Bonnaroo in general.
No. 2nd tier fests do not get U2. 2nd tier fests are mostly drive in drive out festivals, not camping festivals.
First half is a decent point. Second half doesn't make sense at all.
I was like, "I totally agree!...but oh then I don't."
I think 'Roo is fallin' behind our other "top tier" fests, but then maybe I'm just gettin' old. I used to know a decent number of the undercard acts (at least just by name), but no longer. The smaller bands I've listened to over the years have mostly all quit the music biz since they couldn't get decent label support (be it minor or major) and so I haven't kept up with "entry level" artists.
Here are a couple of articles that I thought were interesting. The first is a Bloomberg article about the competition/issues in the festival business. Bonnaroo is prominently mentioned with a focus on the decline in 16. Overall, most of this has been discussed in other places on the board but it did confirm that all bookings are now being handled by C3. Also, it pointed out that Bonnaroo actually lost money in 16. Favorite quote, "Festivals are lineup-driven, and if you don’t have a great lineup, you’re screwed"
Second article is one that I have seen quoted in several secondary articles about the festival business. It attempts to define the ideal target market for festival promoters (i.e. Hard Core Festies). I found this one interesting for a couple of reasons. First, how close the HCF definition was to my festival purchasing habits (note to self..you are spending too much money on festivals). Second, some of the HCF demographics were interesting (average age 32). Third, the conclusion that more people go for the headliners (28%) than the down card acts (8%) or a desire to discover new artists (9%).
Given my last several Bonnaroo experiences, I have to wonder if HCFs are considered a target market for Bonnaroo. They did upgrade the headliners this year (depending on how you think about U2) but U2 and RHCPs seem to be targeted at a different demographic set than the rest of the poster...which seems to be aimed at a much younger college aged crowd. Also, if the average HCF age is 32, I'm not sure how big a draw U2 would be for HCFs. I see the average U2 fan being closer to 40+ and more likely to expect nicer amenities (i.e. Lollapalooza would be a much better match for U2). On that front, Live Nation has upgraded the facilities but not the VIP experience. Maybe they are expecting the HCFs to go for the Platinum VIP program but I can't see them getting any real draw there given the cost of that program.
My point is that Live Nation's strategy seems very disjointed. Its not like they aren't investing, just not sure they are doing it efficiently. In the end, I don't think they are doing either group (HCFs or the younger college crowd they seem to be chasing) favors with their current strategy. The test will be how they draw this year. On that front, they still haven't sold out their tier 3 tickets. Given U2 at the top of their poster, I doubt Live nation considers that a good sign.
Post by piggy pablo on Feb 13, 2017 16:58:26 GMT -5
You're not the first person to point out that U2's average fan is probably an older person, but you could say the same for basically everyone that #1s a festival the size of Bonnaroo, even Radiohead. On the other hand, U2 has at least had some pretty massive songs in more recent years that may have drawn in younger audiences. I'm pretty sure if you're 32 years old you aren't like "who is U2?" or "U2 is just a bunch of geezers". If you're 32, you were 16 when All That You Can't Leave Behind came out. That album had four huge singles that you almost certainly know and remember fondly. You also probably remember the Super Bowl performance after 9/11, which was a big deal at the time. I'm a little younger than that, and I knew people getting into U2 in high school because of the U2 iPod and HTDAAB. Then there was the whole Songs of Innocence fiasco that surely pissed some people off but also raised awareness of U2 among a younger generation than that. I think this whole thing about U2 skewing older is pretty overrated. HCFs would not have caught U2 at a festival before, so there is also some novelty to their appearance.
You're not the first person to point out that U2's average fan is probably an older person, but you could say the same for basically everyone that #1s a festival the size of Bonnaroo, even Radiohead. On the other hand, U2 has at least had some pretty massive songs in more recent years that may have drawn in younger audiences. I'm pretty sure if you're 32 years old you aren't like "who is U2?" or "U2 is just a bunch of geezers". If you're 32, you were 16 when All That You Can't Leave Behind came out. That album had four huge singles that you almost certainly know and remember fondly. You also probably remember the Super Bowl performance after 9/11, which was a big deal at the time. I'm a little younger than that, and I knew people getting into U2 in high school because of the U2 iPod and HTDAAB. Then there was the whole Songs of Innocence fiasco that surely pissed some people off but also raised awareness of U2 among a younger generation than that. I think this whole thing about U2 skewing older is pretty overrated. HCFs would not have caught U2 at a festival before, so there is also some novelty to their appearance.
But but but but South Park told me I'm supposed to make fun of them?
I think it's less of Bonnaroo becoming a second tier fest and more of US festivals filling their 2nd-5th lines or so with trash. Coachella being Coachella still has some interesting stuff. But even it has its worst lineup I've seen. Panorama is like a Coachella past/ modern fest hybrid so it's pretty solid. Gov Ball seemed to forgo the best of the best headliners for a really solid undercard. I'm sure just like Roo, Lolla and ACL will be strong up top with uninspired midcard. The most unique gets are either small fests or curated by the musicians. Basically major fests are becoming Applebees, you can enjoy em but you know they are feeding you average shit. The best food is going to be your local restaurants (smaller unique fests)
