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Basically major fests are becoming Applebees, you can enjoy em but you know they are feeding you average shit. The best food is going to be your local restaurants (smaller unique fests)
Yes, this.
The quote "festivals are lineup-driven, and if you don’t have a great lineup, you’re screwed" is only true for traditional top heavy fests that rely on big acts to draw people in. No wonder so many of them this year are getting into trouble. The bubble is real. Hopefully, fests such as Eaux Claires and Newport Folk will continue to thrive, since they attempt to do something different and appear to aim for longevity rather than short-term cash cows. Bonnaroo will go under if they keep up the trend of aiming for big ass headliners and shitty undercards, because we all know that there's a limited pool of top level talent.
I've read that hardcore festies (HCF's) article before and while it's very insightful, I don't think that crowd is sustainable for the future. Something tells me that these people are more into trends than music, given the predisposition to go for VIP and the headliners. Once the festival bubble pops and something cooler catches their attention, their abundant disposable income will no longer go to festival promoters' pockets.
The "hardcore festie" article is dumb. It blankets every festival in the United States as being some homogeneous market, while not actually analyzing different circumstances that change how festivals need to differentiate their marketing.
Live Nation is just too stupid to realize that a lineup that sells out a market like Chicago, NYC, Austin or San Francisco isn't going to sell out Bonnaroo in bumfuck nowhere Tennessee. They're too stupid to realize the EDM junkie they're obviously trying to target can go to an entirely EDM focused festival closer to them, for cheaper, and have a bed to sleep on when they're passed out from whatever substance they've been fond of.
I do. Even outside of the “big four”, the conversation nationally used to be Bonnaroo and Coachella. Once Coach started dominating that convo and AC sold out it just doesn’t seem as big of a deal. I realize that attendance is going back up, but the brand has seemed to trend less and less over the years. There just doesn’t seem to be as much of an interest from a media perspective anymore. ACL and Lolla have even seemed to surpass them as far as brand recognition goes. It is still presented as a top-tier fest in terms of size and pulling popular names, but with all of the fests popping up over the last decade it just doesn’t feel as important anymore. I would like to go back at some point though.
I’d say it’s carved itself back into its niche, pushing it back into top tier. When it was trying too hard to compete with Lolla and selling badly, sure.
Post by Nathan Fieldcяab on Jul 12, 2020 11:13:40 GMT -5
If Coachella is tier 1 and everything else is Tier 2, then yes. Otherwise no, I'd say it and Lolla are jockeying for second place (edit: maybe ACL belongs in this conversation also, but I live closer to Lollapalooza and I easily hear 2x the conversation about Roo that I do them... that might be anecdotal though)
I love discussions like this. Ranking things and/or arranging things in tiers is a favorite pastime of mine.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the best way to determine what is a first tier festival is ticket sales. Last year the inforoo hive mind was convinced ticket sales would be way down and there would be plenty of space in centeroo. Nobody has hard ticket sales numbers but it certainly felt as crowded if not even more crowded than the previous two years.
So we'll just have to wait and see what this year feels like, but I'm willing to bet they'll sell a shitload of tickets and it will be super crowded, regardless of what we all think of the lineup. And as long as Roo sells a shitload of tickets they'll always be one of the "big four" American music festivals, even if the lineups that sell those tickets aren't to the taste of those who have attended and enjoyed bonnaroo in the past.
No, it is not a second tier fest. The overreaction on this board has been mind-numbing. If you're look for a Euro-style camping fest in the US you're options are essentially Bonnaroo...and nothing else. There is no other festival that allows access to their ground 24hrs for the entire duration of the fest. Gov Ball, Hangout, Shaky Knees, (even Coachella to an extent) are all noon-midnight fest where when it's done you enter back out into the real world and prepare for the next day.
Roo still has that ability to completely immerse you for 4/5 days. No other fest will be able to deliver on that, also when you look at the other amenities that Roo offers (that many take for granted) like the Comedy Theater, Cinema, Kalliope, Xmas Barn, Brooers, etc. no other US fest has gone to the extent they have to offer non-music programming during the fest. At Coachella if you don't like what bands are playing at a certain time, you don;t have many other options beyond....ummmm the ferris wheel or go look at some art? While the lineup is dissapointing this year, the setup and idea behind Bonnaroo are what keep me coming back.
No, it is not a second tier fest. The overreaction on this board has been mind-numbing. If you're look for a Euro-style camping fest in the US you're options are essentially Bonnaroo...and nothing else. There is no other festival that allows access to their ground 24hrs for the entire duration of the fest. Gov Ball, Hangout, Shaky Knees, (even Coachella to an extent) are all noon-midnight fest where when it's done you enter back out into the real world and prepare for the next day.
Roo still has that ability to completely immerse you for 4/5 days. No other fest will be able to deliver on that, also when you look at the other amenities that Roo offers (that many take for granted) like the Comedy Theater, Cinema, Kalliope, Xmas Barn, Brooers, etc. no other US fest has gone to the extent they have to offer non-music programming during the fest. At Coachella if you don't like what bands are playing at a certain time, you don;t have many other options beyond....ummmm the ferris wheel or go look at some art? While the lineup is dissapointing this year, the setup and idea behind Bonnaroo are what keep me coming back.
I do. Even outside of the “big four”, the conversation nationally used to be Bonnaroo and Coachella. Once Coach started dominating that convo and AC sold out it just doesn’t seem as big of a deal. I realize that attendance is going back up, but the brand has seemed to trend less and less over the years. There just doesn’t seem to be as much of an interest from a media perspective anymore. ACL and Lolla have even seemed to surpass them as far as brand recognition goes. It is still presented as a top-tier fest in terms of size and pulling popular names, but with all of the fests popping up over the last decade it just doesn’t feel as important anymore. I would like to go back at some point though.
Bonnaroo sold out in February this year and sold out last year. As for other festivals popping up, a lot of those festivals were also disappearing pre-covid (Sasquatch, Panorama, FYF etc). Boston Calling and Firefly sacrificed most of their lineup to get RATM. While Okeechobee was competing for Bonnaroo's wook base for a couple years, they really fell off fast by having to take a year off and coming back with a mediocre lineup this year (funny enough they were the only festival that actually happened this year). Electric Forest also went back to one weekend. Pre-covid Bonnaroo was doing better than ever.
If Coachella is tier 1 and everything else is Tier 2, then yes. Otherwise no, I'd say it and Lolla are jockeying for second place (edit: maybe ACL belongs in this conversation also, but I live closer to Lollapalooza and I easily hear 2x the conversation about Roo that I do them... that might be anecdotal though)
This is probably the right answer. Living in Texas all I hear the kids mention is ACL. This is kinda what I was meaning earlier when I said they don’t seem to get the same media coverage as they did before. It used to FEEL like a big deal. Now? Not so much.
Music festivals in general are less of a big deal too. At least amongst the early 20s crowd. Basically everyone that actually wanted to go to one has been. The most buzzed about shows in my circles in MO the last few years have been Sunday Service, Travis at Lolla 18, and when Drake brought out Ye in Chicago in 16.
Coachella became this generations Woodstock, basically. It will always be Coachella and then everything else for the foreseeable future, but there was a time when it felt like Coach AND Roo were at the top of the food chain. It’s interesting reading how it was covered before like 2013. Coach has also replaced Woodstock as an analogy when people compare other events such as, “The Coachella of Beer”, etc. It’s a recognizable brand whereas many people (especially Gen Z) have never heard of Bonnaroo.
Music festivals in general are less of a big deal too. At least amongst the early 20s crowd. Basically everyone that actually wanted to go to one has been. The most buzzed about shows in my circles in MO the last few years have been Sunday Service, Travis at Lolla 18, and when Drake brought out Ye in Chicago in 16.
But like aren't music festivals a bigger deal now too? I remember not being able to explain what something like Bonnaroo was to my friends in 2013. But now it seems way more normal. Plus once we're actually able to attend a festival again people are going to be way more excited.
Music festivals in general are less of a big deal too. At least amongst the early 20s crowd. Basically everyone that actually wanted to go to one has been. The most buzzed about shows in my circles in MO the last few years have been Sunday Service, Travis at Lolla 18, and when Drake brought out Ye in Chicago in 16.
But like aren't music festivals a bigger deal now too? I remember not being able to explain what something like Bonnaroo was to my friends in 2013. But now it seems way more normal. Plus once we're actually able to attend a festival again people are going to be way more excited.
Yes, I think we are saying the same thing. They are a bigger deal in that more people are going to them, therefore when something noteworthy happens it’s not a big deal because obviously something cool is going to happen there. It’s not special to the average person anymore. It’s like Losing My Edge. The whole “I was there” mentality is no longer a big deal. At least in my circles
Like in high school when your friends got into a bar and drank it was all they’d talk about for weeks. Was it fun and exciting and is it still fun and exciting to go to bars? Yes, but it’s not as noteworthy because everyone does it now
But like aren't music festivals a bigger deal now too? I remember not being able to explain what something like Bonnaroo was to my friends in 2013. But now it seems way more normal. Plus once we're actually able to attend a festival again people are going to be way more excited.
Yes, I think we are saying the same thing. They are a bigger deal in that more people are going to them, therefore when something noteworthy happens it’s not a big deal because obviously something cool is going to happen there. It’s not special to the average person anymore. It’s like Losing My Edge. The whole “I was there” mentality is no longer a big deal. At least in my circles
Okay I can see what you're saying. The "wow factor" might not have been the same but I don't think people were getting bored of festivals either? As I mentioned in this thread already, Bonnaroo sold out faster than any other year ever. Hangout Festival also sold out pretty quickly. In general this was looking to be a great year for festivals. I think they'll start to feel special once we're able to attend them again.
I do think I might have contradicted myself by saying this was going to be a good year for festivals, but also pointing out the festivals that went away or took a few steps backward within the last couple of years. I think market saturation was an issue but Coachella, Bonnaroo, Shaky Knees, and Hangout were all looking to have a great year. I'm sure Boston Calling would have done well with their top three even if their undercard was nonexistent.
It can move tickets but still not be as respected by media outlets and the music community as it once was. Some of this could also be attributed to rock/folk/jam fading away in favor of pop/dance/hip-hop.
Post by Jake Jortles on Jul 12, 2020 16:41:35 GMT -5
The big 4 is still the big 4. As Nathan mentioned if you want to tier it with coach as the only one in the top tier, then its second tier, but that wasnt the og question really.
Well in a sense, it's not, since the top-tier is held by a lone festival. It's really the 'big one'. Then you have the next three, followed by your OSL's, Hangout's, Govball's, etc.
Honest question here - outside of the experience of Bonnaroo - is it really that much different from say a Jazz Fest on a talent/attendance level? It's lost it's edge a bit and that is not meant to be a knock. Perhaps it is fatigue, but one kept evolving while the other three have felt more tired.
edit: found part of that question. "A festival with an average daily attendance of 50,000 to 60,000" - so no re: attendance (just right under there)
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