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for all you bitching about anything roo related, do everyone a favor and don't fucking go! go ahead and prove a point to bonnaroo by not supporting them. I didn't like the lineup last year so I simply didn't go. I like it this year and will most likely go. it's pretty damn easy. [/rant] now back to your meaningless bitching.
for all you bitching about people bitching about anything roo related, do everyone a favor and don't fucking go read it ! go ahead and prove a point to bonnaroo Inforoo by not supporting reading them. I didn't like the lineup last year your last post so I simply didn't goread it or respond. I like it this year other posts and will most likely go read them. it's pretty damn easy. [/rant] now back to your meaningless bitching.
Bonnaroo's not a second-tier festival yet. I think where they messed up this year was that they devoted too much money to infrastructure, and not enough towards the undercard.
The headliners are great, and there is enough of an undercard for me to go, but things aren't the way they should be. I know a lot of people on here didn't like 2015's lineup, but in my estimation, it was pretty damn good. Furthermore, 2014 was spectacular as well.
Now if Roo drops the ball consecutively in additional upcoming years, then yeah, this conversation will occur. However, at this point in time, I would call it premature to write the whole fest off as being second-tier
It goes kind of hand in hand with their overall strategy. Think of it like a college. They have a new demographic every few years to market to, with the older crowd always transitioning out to other things. Bonnaroo has to keep their demo reach in terms of marketing and lineup very young, especially since it's a "destination" event that young crowds plan summer road trips around. Along with the bubble starting to come closer to popping, this is kind of making current trends the new normal.
One fraud defends another.
Are you saying that Bonnaroo or me is the second fraud?
No, it is not a second tier fest. The overreaction on this board has been mind-numbing. If you're look for a Euro-style camping fest in the US you're options are essentially Bonnaroo...and nothing else. There is no other festival that allows access to their ground 24hrs for the entire duration of the fest. Gov Ball, Hangout, Shaky Knees, (even Coachella to an extent) are all noon-midnight fest where when it's done you enter back out into the real world and prepare for the next day.
Roo still has that ability to completely immerse you for 4/5 days. No other fest will be able to deliver on that, also when you look at the other amenities that Roo offers (that many take for granted) like the Comedy Theater, Cinema, Kalliope, Xmas Barn, Brooers, etc. no other US fest has gone to the extent they have to offer non-music programming during the fest. At Coachella if you don't like what bands are playing at a certain time, you don;t have many other options beyond....ummmm the ferris wheel or go look at some art? While the lineup is dissapointing this year, the setup and idea behind Bonnaroo are what keep me coming back.
The older I've gotten the more 'take a boat/train home and sleep in my bed' appeals to me vs 'try to nod off at 4 to thumping kalliope music, then try to not wake up to blistering TN sun at 8am'. I'll miss the late night sets, but not as much with this year's lineup.
Keeping this intentionally vague, but in February of last year, a friend in the music industry was approached by Bonnaroo and they essentially told him "we've only sold X tickets (I forget the number now) and we need your help bailing us out."
Maybe Bonnaroo still felt crowded because the difference between 60,000 and 80,000 is hard to distinguish, or maybe Bonnaroo righted the ship, I don't know, but as of February last year Bonnaroo wasn't selling a shitload of tickets.
If you look at a map it was inevitable. Goldenvoice controls LA and will (one way or another) likely get NY. C3 has Chicago and Texas. The biggest fests are situating next to the biggest population centers. Why travel if you don't need to.
I think doing more specialized fests off the beaten path still works. But a big tent festival in TN that can sell 90k a day? Not sure that you bet on a business like that.
My thoughts from January are still my thoughts in May.
So, your contention is that it's not the level of music on display, but the other things about Bonnaroo which keep it first tier? Interesting. A nice sideways dive into the "vibes" argument.
Also, it's odd that you cite things like the Cinema, Kalliope (lol) Xmas Barn (also lol), the Brooers tent, etc. as things that make Bonnaroo unique. You do know that Coachella also has smaller/side stages, right? Do Lab, Heineken House, and this year Despacio (which is freaking amazing, btw). They also have great food trucks and a craft beer area (OH NOES BEER JAIL), so I don't know how Bonnaroo really stands out in that department.
It seems like your argument is basically that Bonnaroo has stuff to do other than music. Which is fine, but I would expect that the first priority for any music festival would be, you know, the music. I can go to the amusement park to ride waterslides and eat shitty pizza in the sun.
Essentially anything that someone says you're just going to rip apart because you don't like the lineup. Sorry that you don't find the Kalliope or Xmas barn fun but I've had a blast in there the last 2 years with the secret Chromeo/Cherub shows and the Skrillex/Mija sunrise set. You're ripping on Kalliope but mentioning Do Lab...ummm a stage where they spend 85% of the day spraying people with hoses and squirt guns? If you're that against Kalliope I can't see how you can mention the Do Lab here? You fail to mention the ONE THING that keeps Bonnaroo unique, the 24hr access, where essentially there is always something going on. Most nights at Coachella I was in bed in the campground by 2ish? I can't tell you how many times I've seen the sunrise at Roo.
I honestly hope that you, along with everyone else bitching decides not to go this year, I'd love to have 50% less people at Roo and allow me to get rail for PJ, LCD, Tame, and Miguel. Why are all these arguments becoming a competition between fests, who the fuck cares? Pick whichever lineup you feel, and sorry but also whatever VIBE you feel suits you best. You can rip on it all you want but every fest has a different vibe, none of which are bad, just find which one you connect with most.
Essentially anything that someone says you're just going to rip apart because you don't like the lineup. Sorry that you don't find the Kalliope or Xmas barn fun but I've had a blast in there the last 2 years with the secret Chromeo/Cherub shows and the Skrillex/Mija sunrise set. You're ripping on Kalliope but mentioning Do Lab...ummm a stage where they spend 85% of the day spraying people with hoses and squirt guns? If you're that against Kalliope I can't see how you can mention the Do Lab here? You fail to mention the ONE THING that keeps Bonnaroo unique, the 24hr access, where essentially there is always something going on. Most nights at Coachella I was in bed in the campground by 2ish? I can't tell you how many times I've seen the sunrise at Roo.
I honestly hope that you, along with everyone else bitching decides not to go this year, I'd love to have 50% less people at Roo and allow me to get rail for PJ, LCD, Tame, and Miguel. Why are all these arguments becoming a competition between fests, who the fuck cares? Pick whichever lineup you feel, and sorry but also whatever VIBE you feel suits you best. You can rip on it all you want but every fest has a different vibe, none of which are bad, just find which one you connect with most.
Wow, looks like you fished your wish.
Except for the 24 hour entertainment part. That's gone now too.
Post by Swedish Chef on May 22, 2016 8:34:41 GMT -5
If the rumors about projected attendance (less than 50k tickets sold) are true, then I think you can objectively say that Bonnaroo is indeed a second-tier festival in 2016. When you sell less than half as many tickets as Coachella, Lolla, and ACL, and slightly more tickets than The Hangout at its peak, you cannot consider yourself a first-tier festival. What kept Bonnaroo a first-tier festival all these years, despite not being as conveniently located as Lolla or ACL, was the combination of festival experience and great, diverse lineups. With the second half of that equation missing and more affordable regional festivals like Shaky Knees establishing themselves, many people this year simply do not think Bonnaroo is worth the time or money required to attend. Especially after you factor in the significant price hikes. For example, if you live in the Great Lakes states or the northeastern U.S., why attend Bonnaroo when festivals like Gov Ball, Osheaga, and Wayhome are more convenient.
Post by Rat Tomago on May 23, 2016 13:41:50 GMT -5
I realize this is an unpopular opinion, but for me only Outside Lands and Jazzfest have better lineups in 2016 than Bonnaroo in North America. Coachella is just a hair behind because of gary clark, underworld, sufjan and st. germain. i'd rather see pearl jam than GnR helps the cause there. Lolla has Radiohead and Janes. ACL has radiohead, FlyLo, andrew bird and Willie. Panorama has arcade fire, broken social scene and sufjan. If you mashed Osheaga and Wayhome together excluding RHCP, the killers and Lana then there's your best fest but alas. EDM and rap are not my big draws obviously but then neither are country or bluegrass. I think perhaps it's the funk? that seems to be where outside lands, jazzfest and roo have clearly excelled over the rest. well, jazzfest whipped everyone on all fronts but it's a start maybe.
Post by Vinnie the Eel on May 23, 2016 13:58:44 GMT -5
The lineup's not great, but that's not the main reason I'm upset at Bonnaroo and wish that I wouldn't have placed my faith in this festival. I'm upset because of the loss of the late night experience, the shorter sets with ridiculously long breaks in between. Basically, I'm paying more than I ever have before for so much less music and so much less experience and viiiiiibez. It's a real bummer
I realize this is an unpopular opinion, but for me only Outside Lands and Jazzfest have better lineups in 2016 than Bonnaroo in North America. Coachella is just a hair behind because of gary clark, underworld, sufjan and st. germain. i'd rather see pearl jam than GnR helps the cause there. Lolla has Radiohead and Janes. ACL has radiohead, FlyLo, andrew bird and Willie. Panorama has arcade fire, broken social scene and sufjan. If you mashed Osheaga and Wayhome together excluding RHCP, the killers and Lana then there's your best fest but alas. EDM and rap are not my big draws obviously but then neither are country or bluegrass. I think perhaps it's the funk? that seems to be where outside lands, jazzfest and roo have clearly excelled over the rest. well, jazzfest whipped everyone on all fronts but it's a start maybe.
To be honest, other than Jazz Fest (which is a difficult comparison given its length), I don't think any of the larger North American festivals put out a truly great lineup this year. I think Coachella, Outside Lands, and Governors Ball are solid but unspectacular. And aside from impressive headliners along the lines of Radiohead, Pearl Jam, and LCD Soundsystem, Bonnaroo, Coachella, and ACL have very underwhelming undercards. Some of the more regional festivals like Sasquatch, WayHome, and Panorama had solid lineups, but the only other festival that really knocked it out of the park this year was FYF (I guess you could include Levitation too).
I'd say it's a first tier festival. It may be off in attendance and interest this year, but it's still the shit. I don't like some of the changes to the night schedule and shorter set times (give me 18 hours a day of Waka any day). But they are (obviously) going to try to run it like a business. If they squeeze more dollars out of less music and more pod games, that's what they'll try.
I actually liked the college analogy. Hangout sold out. I sold my tickets for pre sale cost to an Inforoo friend since I was not inspired. Obviously a much younger crowd (apparently even for Hangout) disagreed with me. And that's fine. If Bonnaroo chases the pop, they'll lose my interest as well, and I'll find shit I want to go to and spend my festival money that way. I'm not going this year because I blew through too many vacation days and it's still May. So I gotta lump it and save the money. But I didn't dis it over the lineup. There's plenty for me to love and plenty for me to hate.
I'm sure Bonnaroo will continue to exist as a major event and top tier festival for the foreseeable future. Competition may eat into their base and margins because that's what corporatization is going to bring. I guess the question for me is whether or not they evolve into something I'll still be interested in or if they go in a direction that reduces my interest.
2nd and 3rd tier: Forecastle Boston Calling Firefly Stagecoach Electric Forest ACL Shaky Knees Wakarusa Big Ears Outside Lands Camb Bisco Eaux Claires Levitation Sasquatch Summer Camp Jazz Fest Counterpoint Gathering of the Vibes
Personal opinion thinking about familiarity and 'best of' lists. Not talking about any specific lineups from a year, too subjective.
2nd and 3rd tier: Forecastle Boston Calling Firefly Stagecoach Electric Forest ACL Shaky Knees Wakarusa Big Ears Outside Lands Camb Bisco Eaux Claires Levitation Sasquatch Summer Camp Jazz Fest Counterpoint Gathering of the Vibes
Personal opinion thinking about familiarity and 'best of' lists. Not talking about any specific lineups from a year, too subjective.
Outside Lands, ACL, Jazzfest and Firefly are top tier IMO. They can draw anyone. Hangout is 2nd tier. I look at it this way- can you draw/afford Paul McCartney. Yes- first tier; No- second or lower.
May Tycho May Phoenix June Rooo July MMJ and Margo Price August Queen with Adam Lambert August Roger Waters (Bucket list #1) August Spoon and Portugal the man Sept Depeche Mode Sept Pilgrimage Fest
2nd and 3rd tier: Forecastle Boston Calling Firefly Stagecoach Electric Forest ACL Shaky Knees Wakarusa Big Ears Outside Lands Camb Bisco Eaux Claires Levitation Sasquatch Summer Camp Jazz Fest Counterpoint Gathering of the Vibes
Personal opinion thinking about familiarity and 'best of' lists. Not talking about any specific lineups from a year, too subjective.
Your tiers are pretty messed up. Firefly, ACL, Outside Lands, and Jazz Fest sold at least twice as many tickets as Hangout in 2014 and 2015. The latter three typically sell well upwards of 100,000 tickets each year.
2nd and 3rd tier: Forecastle Boston Calling Firefly Stagecoach Electric Forest ACL Shaky Knees Wakarusa Big Ears Outside Lands Camb Bisco Eaux Claires Levitation Sasquatch Summer Camp Jazz Fest Counterpoint Gathering of the Vibes
Personal opinion thinking about familiarity and 'best of' lists. Not talking about any specific lineups from a year, too subjective.
Your tiers are pretty messed up. Firefly, ACL, Outside Lands, and Jazz Fest sold at least twice as many tickets as Hangout in 2014 and 2015. The latter three typically sell well upwards of 100,000 tickets each year.
Ok yeah I should have prefaced, I limited first tier to only 10 festivals. I agree on jazz, outside, and acl's size. But firely? and do you think hangout should be demoted? I still think it has more recognition than the ones you listed, which is what I made the tiers on.
Your tiers are pretty messed up. Firefly, ACL, Outside Lands, and Jazz Fest sold at least twice as many tickets as Hangout in 2014 and 2015. The latter three typically sell well upwards of 100,000 tickets each year.
Ok yeah I should have prefaced, I limited first tier to only 10 festivals. I agree on jazz, outside, and acl's size. But firely? and do you think hangout should be demoted? I still think it has more recognition than the ones you listed, which is what I made the tiers on.
Firefly sold upwards of 80,000 tickets in 2014 and 2015. Hangout sells about 40,000 tickets each year. And I disagree that it has more name recognition. Maybe on Inforoo because that dumpster fire of a thread is 400 pages long, but not in the real world.
Ok yeah I should have prefaced, I limited first tier to only 10 festivals. I agree on jazz, outside, and acl's size. But firely? and do you think hangout should be demoted? I still think it has more recognition than the ones you listed, which is what I made the tiers on.
Firefly sold upwards of 80,000 tickets in 2014 and 2015. Hangout sells about 40,000 tickets each year. And I disagree that it has more name recognition. Maybe on Inforoo because that dumpster fire of a thread is 400 pages long, but not in the real world.
Interesting. I'm 22 and I would put money on most of my friends, even ones not that into music, on knowing what hangout fest is and not knowing what firefly is. I want to say it's because of the beach party scene and pop-ier music but I can't be sure.
If the rumors about projected attendance (less than 50k tickets sold) are true, then I think you can objectively say that Bonnaroo is indeed a second-tier festival in 2016. When you sell less than half as many tickets as Coachella, Lolla, and ACL, and slightly more tickets than The Hangout at its peak, you cannot consider yourself a first-tier festival. What kept Bonnaroo a first-tier festival all these years, despite not being as conveniently located as Lolla or ACL, was the combination of festival experience and great, diverse lineups. With the second half of that equation missing and more affordable regional festivals like Shaky Knees establishing themselves, many people this year simply do not think Bonnaroo is worth the time or money required to attend. Especially after you factor in the significant price hikes. For example, if you live in the Great Lakes states or the northeastern U.S., why attend Bonnaroo when festivals like Gov Ball, Osheaga, and Wayhome are more convenient.
Nailed it. Attendance and deep lineups are what separates 1st and 2nd tiers. Bonnaroo slowly lost the latter over the past couple years, and lost the former this year.
Ok yeah I should have prefaced, I limited first tier to only 10 festivals. I agree on jazz, outside, and acl's size. But firely? and do you think hangout should be demoted? I still think it has more recognition than the ones you listed, which is what I made the tiers on.
Firefly sold upwards of 80,000 tickets in 2014 and 2015. Hangout sells about 40,000 tickets each year. And I disagree that it has more name recognition. Maybe on Inforoo because that dumpster fire of a thread is 400 pages long, but not in the real world.
Also, that's all that hangout can hold as well, which is why I didn't place the tiers purely on attendance, but with things like ultra, it definitely makes an impact on recognition.
Firefly sold upwards of 80,000 tickets in 2014 and 2015. Hangout sells about 40,000 tickets each year. And I disagree that it has more name recognition. Maybe on Inforoo because that dumpster fire of a thread is 400 pages long, but not in the real world.
Also, that's all that hangout can hold as well, which is why I didn't place the tiers purely on attendance, but with things like ultra, it definitely makes an impact on recognition.
Is Voodoo Experience not on your radar as a second tier festival?
Also, that's all that hangout can hold as well, which is why I didn't place the tiers purely on attendance, but with things like ultra, it definitely makes an impact on recognition.
Is Voodoo Experience not on your radar as a second tier festival?
Not really familiar with it, I just listed the ones I knew. I'll check it out!
Ok yeah I should have prefaced, I limited first tier to only 10 festivals. I agree on jazz, outside, and acl's size. But firely? and do you think hangout should be demoted? I still think it has more recognition than the ones you listed, which is what I made the tiers on.
Please stop.
I knew the list was going to be met with a bunch of disagreement per usual, oh well. Deciding the criteria to rank them is hard. You make one!
Is Voodoo Experience not on your radar as a second tier festival?
Not really familiar with it, I just listed the ones I knew. I'll check it out!
Oh I totally know voodoo. Interesting, I looked about about 10 different publications music festival rankings lists and this wasn't on it. Maybe outshadowed by jazz fest?
Not really familiar with it, I just listed the ones I knew. I'll check it out!
Oh I totally know voodoo. Interesting, I looked about about 10 different publications music festival rankings lists and this wasn't on it. Maybe outshadowed by jazz fest?
Well they do have that mega festival in Milwaukee (Summer Fest?) that draws like a million people every year. And French Quarter Fest is like 700,000 people in 4 days.
I don't know how many days Summerfest goes, but they have McCartney and Sting & Peter Gabriel. Obviously it must be a mega city fest, but they probably have the overall biggest names of all (not that I would want to see 50% of it, but still). summerfest.com/2016-lineup/
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