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This game is quickly turning into a clusterfuck...
Yep.
And people have been wondering why some posters, including me, have been fairly silent.
I feel like adding to this clusterfuck any further won't help anybody. I'd really love to steer away from the direction this is going, but hey, Kdogg and Viking have their ways they like to play. And the tension with Jimmy Thor (hard adjustment to make, after calling him Jimmy for so long) is certainly more than palpable. It almost seems like too much, over the top, to the point where I question whether it is for show? But then again, having been on the other side of a Viking-is-relentlessly-gonna-shit-on-you-for-many-posts situation, I don't want to leap to conclusions about what this one means. Could just be Viking bein' Viking
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
"Here's a bunch of posts where I didn't walk the talk."
While I think some of his vote switches were a little rash he has a point. I don't know if it's on purpose but I do feel people have misrepresented his argument. Perhaps I'm just more use to Jimmy's playing style but I didn't take any of his 3-way/4-way talk as him trying to be controlling or manipulate the outcome. Especially when a lot of that activity took place days prior to the end of the round.
So while it's fair to judge his votes and his reasoning. I think there's been a good deal of misunderstanding as to what he was getting at.
Because I said I don't want to be involved in a game with a bunch of nonsense and he just can't help himself. How's that for a reason?
Thor comes out here all guns blazing. He ups kdogg to 3 votes (which at max would mean a 3 way runoff) because he is spitting "nonsense". Now I don't think anyone will disagree that there has definitely been some nonsense from the kdogg camp but nothing worth the kind of reaction we have been seeing from Thor. Him upping kdogg to three votes when the next highest is only at one is weird but this is no reason to blindly be suspicious of him. This next post is when the alert bells started going off in my head.
No good reason besides the fact that a noob is voting for him and I feel like they never end up as Mafia
This makes no sense. Yes it is my first game and yes I am a noob - not afraid to admit that. Everyone may be asking "danbob he is saying you are town why is are you suspicious of this?". Well let me tell you. Earlier kdogg had posted his thoughts on the initial vote count. The two votes that he had no explaination for were my vote for potent and potent's vote for carini. Here is the post in a spoiler:
*Viking > kdogg *kdogg > ZIG *Mike D > SFA *Carini > Thor Potent > Carini *ZIG > kdogg *SFA > Mike D *Rummy > Viking danbob > Potent
* These votes all make sense to me.
Viking going after me feels about right. I made it known I'd go for ZIG. ZIG reciprocated. Mike D & SFA reciprocating makes sense & has precedent. Carini has a formula. Rummy's vote for Viking makes complete sense, because history. t The ones I can't currently explain both involve Potent. Hmm.
Now if Thor is mafia he could easily be using his vote on potent to put pressure on me - the noob - to put me in the spotlight for my initial vote on potent because someone had already expressed suspicion for it. By saying his reason for voting for potent is because of me he puts all the blame on me for whatever would have happened as a result of his vote (at that point potent was in the runoff). For the record, and I said this earlier, my initial vote on potent was picked at random. However, his feud with kdogg ultimately took the spotlight and he switched his vote back to kdogg again bumping him up to three votes for the second time of the game. If it happens once it's an event but if it happens twice it's a trend and Thor for the second time in the game forces town to switch votes in order to have a 4 way runoff.
Whew and to think I'm just getting started. After I point out my opinion for a 3 way with Thor's votes he responds with this.
I still want kdogg in the runoff but a 4 person runoff isn't possible with kdogg at 3 votes. In my opinion it seems like mafia benefits from a 3 person run off d1r1 more than town.
You actually have no basis for this opinion. I've been a part of plenty of games with a 3 person runoff without much fuss. For some reason Kdogg is trying to make it into an issue now. Probably because of his own self interest.
My vote will remain on Kdogg, the person who expanded to a 5 person runoff which I think we universally agree is a poor bet for the town. If someone wants to take their vote off Kdogg and start the process to a 4 person runoff that is fine with me. But I'm content with a 3 way runoff as well.
Now he says I have no basis for my opinion but says that a 5 way runoff way horrible (ignoring the fact I posted the last instance of a three way runoff like 20 games ago - it failed). Yes thor you have played more games than me but my opinion still remains that same. Whatever, we didn't have a three way runoff. I just wanted to point out how thor tries to make it sound like the 5 way runoff (which is far more common) is worse for town than a three way runoff d1r1. It's fishy.
Thor's numbered response to my criticism (he quoted above so I will not waste the time to quote here) does little to ease any suspicioin as I clearly presented an example where a 3 way runoff didn't work for town (although it worked for Thor because he was mafia that game). It's funny that he also tried to suggest I was mafia with kdogg. I wasn't trying to take kdogg out of the runoff as I stated earlier in the game. I just wanted a four way runoff - which was impossible because kdogg had three votes as a result of Thor's vote switch.
I don't need to proceed justifying myself. Anyone with half a brain can comprehend my votes and reasoning. If you think I was being rash, fine. But there is nothing more to explain on my end.
Now just because I have a condom on my head doesn't mean I don't have a brain oh great genius Thor.
Now here is the great genius Thor when faced with more criticism (from someone that's not me!).
Tldr. Couldn't take Viking seriously after reading that I tried to "frame" Kdogg.
Dude at least respond to what is "so wrong" about his post instead of dismissing it completely. You have to at least understand why people are suspicious of you because of posts like this. And while we are at it this doesn't help much either...
Hey now, nobody's perfect. I've admitted where I felt my logic was on shaky ground in this game, and I feel I've been at least as transparent with my reasoning as anyone this time around. I'm at least putting things out there.
Contrast that with a certain other candidate in this runoff, who's basically told the other two candidates in this runoff that he won't respond to their questions and/or read the entirety of their posts - and that's when a runoff opponent is defending themselves against his accusations and/or making their case against him.
Wouldn't you want to shoot that down? Worst case, feels like the overconfidence associated with a certain role to me; best case, innocent player won't even bother with others? Either way, I don't think it's a very productive approach for the Townspeople here.
If you want to ask me a direct question that is no longer than two tweets, sure. If you want to write an incomprehensible short story with veiled references at "certain other candidates" buried within and except me to respond to them, you can hold your breath.
Now that we had our laughs let's go back to legitimately breaking down my suspicions (almost done I promise).
Because I don't know shit about anyone's roles. All I know is you were making up some shit justifications for everyone's initial votes like you know something. So I stacked you up to 3. You proclaimed you'd take a break on posting, so I said mission accomplished and switched to potent to create a runoff.
Then you started posting shit again, so I switched back to you. And that's it. That's where I'm at.
In terms of Viking, he's also posting a bunch of nonsense. The only thing that has really piqued my attention so far is Danbob trying to rally people against me with mischaracterizations about my earlier posts. Otherwise things seem to be par for the course in terms of Kdogg and Viking post useless novels in round 1.
At every stage of the game Thor has called every point raised against him "nonsense" (main critisms from kdogg, viking, and I). However, the way I see it Thor has been the only one that has left me dumbfounded by his defensive behavior all game. It's also weird that he spends more of the day bashing viking and kdogg but has the nerve to say my "mischaracterizations" are the only thing that has piqued his attention at the end of his post. Really?!?
In conclusion Thors votes and behavior this game does not add up and my vote isn't going anywhere. How's that for a response?
That's exactly my point. I voted for Kdogg to set a tone with him, then switched to potent at pretty much random because I wanted a runoff. Then when Kdogg made a 5 person runoff, I switched back to Kdogg.
That sequence has been giving Danbob serious concern about me. Viking thought I was "framing" Kdogg with my vote sequence even though my only stated purpose for upping him to 3 was because I didn't like that he made a 5 person runoff. And Kdogg probably just doesn't like me because I'm voting for him.
Dan808, thank you for completely failing to address the original purpose of our conversation - that you were mischaracterizing my earlier posts. Nowhere in your lengthy response do you touch on the fact that I never "aggressively advocated for an3-way runoff".
You were trying to make me look like someone trying to limit the runoff, and when I called you out on it, with proof of your lies, you sidestepped it.
Dan808, thank you for completely failing to address the original purpose of our conversation - that you were mischaracterizing my earlier posts. Nowhere in your lengthy response do you touch on the fact that I never "aggressively advocated for an3-way runoff".
You were trying to make me look like someone trying to limit the runoff, and when I called you out on it, with proof of your lies, you sidestepped it.
Lies? It was an exaggeration at worst. I would definitely say bumping kdogg up to three votes twice is aggressive.
I don't disagree that the stack itself was aggressive. But so was your "exaggeration" and willful disregard of the truth when I tried to set the record straight about your accusations on multiple occasions.
You should also realize, Danbob, that I'd have to be a complete sociopath a la Viking to make such a fuss this early in the game if I was Mafia. I challenge you to find one single instance where I was Mafia and played this way. I'm a townie through and through,
I'm not quite sure what I want to do yet. I can see both Kdogg and Thor's arguments. I just can't tell if both are being sincere. While both of them have some valid concerns, there seems to be a good deal of conjecture which leads to sift through. But this is mafia, most of the time we are flying blind and making arguments based on our gut. Can't really fault either of them. I do the same thing.
Viking stayed on his gimmick vote for me and has got me placed in the runoff. He's done this before and, if I recall correctly, he'd done it regardless of his role. It's hard to say otherwise because he's been so quite. It's also worth noting that the people voting for him haven't had much to say either.
Going to mow and think about all this.
Its not a gimmick. It is a tried and tested lucky device. Plus, I prefer to know where you stand early on. Still not sure on that account (and you have had some curious recent posts), but given what has happened thus far, I am unsure that we will uncover that on Day 1. But rest assured, the eye is always watching...
Perhaps "gimmick" has to negative a connotation but it's fair to say you haven't strictly used that vote just for "luck" in the past. You have your tactical reasons be it to try to draw stacks from eager mafia or just to get a general reaction. That's what I was getting at. While I can appreciate all of that, I shouldn't be expected to just swallow it whole. I'm natural going to question your motives, as you are going to question mine.
I'm curious to find out what you think is curious about my recent posts. They are pretty standard observations. I'll readily admit they are quite fluffy. There wasn't much being discussed outside of debating the value of different sized runoffs. I'm sure you recall that I've been involved in enough of those. I didn't really have much to add to another one outside of thinking 5-way runoffs are crap. That shouldn't be surprising after the last game.
You should also realize, Danbob, that I'd have to be a complete sociopath a la Viking to make such a fuss this early in the game if I was Mafia. I challenge you to find one single instance where I was Mafia and played this way. I'm a townie through and through,
This is a legitimate point. Admittedly I do not have a grasp on everyone's play styles expect for a few. However I let my opinions be heard however wrong or right historically they may be.
You should also realize, Danbob, that I'd have to be a complete sociopath a la Viking to make such a fuss this early in the game if I was Mafia. I challenge you to find one single instance where I was Mafia and played this way. I'm a townie through and through,
Jimmy, I've been thinking you were town so is this response just obtuse for the sake of being obtuse?
Carini is suggesting that you could be mafia playing differently as a strategy. I think it's unlikely but it's a possibility that the town has to examine.
Post by potentpotables on Jul 6, 2016 5:47:47 GMT -5
Right now, my thought is that I will not be voting to lynch Viking (this is subject to change, of course, all thinking is dynamic). If Viking is town, he's someone I want on my side figuring things out. We would know whether he's town because the mafia will whack him if they can't figure out who is inspector. If he's mafia, he will live too long and I'd advocate for him to be lynched on Day 3 if he's alive. This is the same strategy I was utilizing in the apocalypse game a few games ago, where he was mafia and I was ready to argue for his lynching on Day 3.
Basically, I'm not participating in doing the mafia's dirty work. I want to make them whack him or take the chance that they can frame him (good luck).
Jimmy, I've been thinking you were town so is this response just obtuse for the sake of being obtuse?
Carini is suggesting that you could be mafia playing differently as a strategy. I think it's unlikely but it's a possibility that the town has to examine.
Sounded like he was calling me a sociopath if you read it in context of my post.
Jimmy, I've been thinking you were town so is this response just obtuse for the sake of being obtuse?
Carini is suggesting that you could be mafia playing differently as a strategy. I think it's unlikely but it's a possibility that the town has to examine.
Sounded like he was calling me a sociopath if you read it in context of my post.
Fair enough. From a 3rd person viewpoint I didn't read it that way but if it were about me maybe I would have.
The thing is, I'm not acting different at all. I always have grief with Kdogg and Viking. That's why I was initially considering not playing this game.
The thing is, I'm not acting different at all. I always have grief with Kdogg and Viking. That's why I was initially considering not playing this game.
You actually are playing different Jimmy. You do normally have grief but you have made the grief the center-point of your game this time. Normally, you get pissy about something, but still respond. Here, you just took your ball and went home. Maybe you already were burned out with KDogg, but I had largely left you alone until yesterday. I am trying to play a kinder, gentler version of my game since I don't need to frame anyone this time. You just look extremely suspicious and I think I have asked some legitimate questions, but you refuse to engage in substance. The only thing you engaged about was playing style yesterday where you said you hated how we play, then admitted you are not good at Day 1 but you didn't want to do it another way.
So again, I will ask if you truly are a townie, why in the hell would you do that? You either are mafia or you are a town person actively saying fuck the town by being intentionally obstinate, or just really lazy. In all cases, you are a huge liability, but I would hope you have more respect for the game and the rest of us not to kick us all in the balls and that you would play to win as a townie.
I am locked in on Jimmy. Am I sure on KDogg? No, but I feel he is more likely to be a townie and there is a preponderance of evidence against Jimmy that he refuses to address.
Ask me some specific questions and I'll answer. Write a novel with questions buried within and you're not helping anyone unless your agenda is to make the game more difficult for other people.
