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I'm still worried about that random anecdote that Mall Grab turned down Coachella. I feel like this was the year for Jayda G, her album dropped a few weeks before the festival. Although the Yuma DJs are much more immune to "need a new release to play"
Speaking of great sets/crowds, should have included Jayda G in my wishlist.
I feel like this is a borderline lock as long as she's interested. GV has obviously been extremely focused on having female representation in both Sahara and Yuma (which is awesome), and the pool is much smaller than for male DJs. I said this somewhere else in here, but I predicted almost every female DJ on my mock for this year, and whiffed on all the male ones LOL. I feel like Alison Wonderland, Jayda G, Peggy Gou, Black Madonna, and mayyyybe Helena Hauff (I thought it'd be this year so maybe she's just not that interested) are pretty solid bets at this point.
I'm not sure the pool is that much smaller for Yuma acts. Plenty of options right now.
Tickle Me Elmo I'm sure will beat me to it. I'm settling down on headliners and second lines, and third lines are mostly fleshed out and on the poster, and I have an Excel spreadsheet of stage slots to make sure I'm not overstacking it or lightening up on Sahara, main stage worthy, etc. But I'm hitting a wall where I always do...differentiating between third and fourth line acts, and putting together an exciting but realistic Sahara/Yuma since that's not my wheel house. I have a word doc of potential acts and have been going through Spotify for genres I'm not familiar with. If I don't get bored before I finish it, I'd guess it's coming in 2-3 weeks. My poster background is pretty though and a vibe that the fest hasn't done in a second.
I feel like this is a borderline lock as long as she's interested. GV has obviously been extremely focused on having female representation in both Sahara and Yuma (which is awesome), and the pool is much smaller than for male DJs. I said this somewhere else in here, but I predicted almost every female DJ on my mock for this year, and whiffed on all the male ones LOL. I feel like Alison Wonderland, Jayda G, Peggy Gou, Black Madonna, and mayyyybe Helena Hauff (I thought it'd be this year so maybe she's just not that interested) are pretty solid bets at this point.
I'm not sure the pool is that much smaller for Yuma acts. Plenty of options right now.
theres plenty of options but I don’t see them looking beyond the Peggy Gou, TBM, Nina Kraviz of the world.
Yuma bookings more than often seem super random. Just look at an act like Dusky this year. There was really no reason for bringing them in 2019 aside from timing and maybe them putting more focus on the US scene? Then there are those obvious picks like Vynehall and Avery who just never show up as each project passes. There are also plenty of those who just feel like filler/redundant.
side not: I was really surprised by Polo & Pan's presence over here this year. They've really capitalized on the moment.
Last Edit: Apr 28, 2019 16:50:33 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
Maybe being in July definitely helped? Still think if they went in hard with an FYF '16 caliber undercard and some talent from Just Like Heaven, they could throw in whatever headliners/pop/hip-hop/latin/Kpop acts on the top lines and move tickets much faster. Keep the nerds who will spend all of their money on music engaged.
edit: just seems like there is a better way to curate for everyone's taste while maintaining quality control. not that this year wasn't well-rounded enough as it was, but the current formula has clearly been slipping a bit.
Last Edit: Apr 28, 2019 17:07:20 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
Maybe being in July definitely helped? Still think if they went in hard with an FYF '16 caliber undercard and some talent from Just Like Heaven, they could throw in whatever headliners/pop/hip-hop/latin/Kpop acts on the top lines and move tickets much faster. Keep the nerds who will spend all of their money on music engaged.
edit: just seems like there is a better way to curate for everyone's taste while maintaining quality control. not that this year wasn't well-rounded enough as it was, but the current formula has clearly been slipping a bit.
There should be. Not that this year was bad or anything, but they could have a slightly better lineup, and could sell out without struggling this much. Hopefully they'll learn from response to this year's lineup and make any necessary adjustments.
Maybe being in July definitely helped? Still think if they went in hard with an FYF '16 caliber undercard and some talent from Just Like Heaven, they could throw in whatever headliners/pop/hip-hop/latin/Kpop acts on the top lines and move tickets much faster. Keep the nerds who will spend all of their money on music engaged.
edit: just seems like there is a better way to curate for everyone's taste while maintaining quality control. not that this year wasn't well-rounded enough as it was, but the current formula has clearly been slipping a bit.
I don't think July helps, most of those acts prefer to be in Europe for the summer because that's where the bookings are. There's a reason the States gets so many of those DJs in the winter if we get them at all. I think FYF 2017 caught lightning in a bottle in a ton of different ways, and I'm not sure I'll ever go to a festival that stacked ever again.
And this year slipped because of the headliners and the massive number of tickets they have to sell, tbh. It's not the undercard that's hurting them. W2 took awhile to sell out last year and they had Beyonce on the bill (and people knew Beyonce was going to be on the bill for a year); and then W2 resale plummeted, although not as hard as this year did. The expansion came right as the festival bubble started to deflate and the headliner pool really thinned out. Without a bananas lineup, they're going to struggle to sell out both weekends for the foreseeable future, imo.
As someone who no longer has much use for headliners in general, this undercard could have been better for my taste (especially knowing what else is out there). I can’t be the only one. It’s probably a mixture of both really. Like you could say the headliners are to blame, but at the same time they had very little second line support imo.
I meant July re: DGTL. I know there are plenty of more beneficial happenings in European Summers though. That’s why it’s so difficult to predict and really comes down more to timing or if their concentration is breaking through North America.
Last Edit: Apr 28, 2019 18:10:55 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
As someone who no longer has much use for headliners in general, this undercard could have been better for my taste (especially knowing what else is out there). I can’t be the only one. It’s probably a mixture of both really. Like you could say the headliners are to blame, but at the same time they had very little second line support imo.
I meant July re: DGTL. I know there are plenty of more beneficial happenings in European Summers though. That’s why it’s so difficult to predict and really comes down more to timing or if their concentration is breaking through North America.
I'd argue the second liners played an outsized role in making sales this year. Khalid, J Balvin, Bad Bunny, BLACKPINK, all the boring EDM, Billie Eilish, The 1975 - those are the acts people showed up for this year. As much as we don't care about this stuff for the most part, that's where the festival sold tickets. The only two second-liners this board really agreed were great (Aphex and Gesa) are far and away the two smallest draws on the second line this year other than maybe CHVRCHES, who GV seems to have bet on and whiffed. Adding the Yeah Yeah Yeahs or Phoenix would be similar, and wouldn't move tickets in the numbers they need them to.
Yeah DGTL was an issue this year it seemed, but just last year we had the best Yuma lineup in the history of the festival, and they faced the same competition from DGTL then too.
It's not a coincidence that when you starting going all in with acts like Haim at #2 (even with Beyonce) people are going to be turned off a bit and sales will slow. Echoing what many have said all over, these were some of the worst second lines in the history of the festival. That has to account for something. That's not to say some of the acts you mentioned aren't a huge draw right now, but they also alienate much of their established base.
edit: I don't think Phoenix and the YYY's are the answer fwiw. Would adding more rare performances like Sterolab and The Rapture help? Possibly. I just feel like they could be even more inclusive while thinking forward.
Last Edit: Apr 28, 2019 18:24:19 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
As someone who no longer has much use for headliners in general, this undercard could have been better for my taste (especially knowing what else is out there). I can’t be the only one. It’s probably a mixture of both really. Like you could say the headliners are to blame, but at the same time they had very little second line support imo.
I meant July re: DGTL. I know there are plenty of more beneficial happenings in European Summers though. That’s why it’s so difficult to predict and really comes down more to timing or if their concentration is breaking through North America.
I'd argue the second liners played an outsized role in making sales this year. Khalid, J Balvin, Bad Bunny, BLACKPINK, all the boring EDM, Billie Eilish, The 1975 - those are the acts people showed up for this year. As much as we don't care about this stuff for the most part, that's where the festival sold tickets. The only two second-liners this board really agreed were great (Aphex and Gesa) are far and away the two smallest draws on the second line this year other than maybe CHVRCHES, who GV seems to have bet on and whiffed. Adding the Yeah Yeah Yeahs or Phoenix would be similar, and wouldn't move tickets in the numbers they need them to.
Yeah DGTL was an issue this year it seemed, but just last year we had the best Yuma lineup in the history of the festival, and they faced the same competition from DGTL then too.
Agree with this. The second lines were mostly awful for me, but a bunch of them were popular acts with new material. And they drew the crowds. I would have personally loved The Rapture, but I don't know if they would have outdrawn any of the second or even third line acts this year.
How far were they from selling out I wonder? Gotta be a way to drive those 5-10K more 30-somethings back to the fest.
I should probably take a closer look before I say so, but big name hip-hop didn't seem very well represented this year too. Only Push, Gambino, and Cudi really come to mind. Ah, suppose if things had panned out with Kanye that could have helped some.
edit: I will say after looking more at the undercard, it's deep with acts I genuinely love from top to bottom. Something still just seems to be missing though. Maybe that's just me glossing over Aphex after seeing him in 2017? I just expect more even though at this point I probably shouldn't. If the headliners were the problem this year, I then just look back to last year and wonder what the issue was then. Maybe the acts they have been putting 4-9 genuinely have something to do with it (outside of just a decreasing lack of interest).
Last Edit: Apr 28, 2019 18:46:24 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
I heard that buzz too but I think it was before CLOSE, which made me think it just got conflated. Plastikman would probably be on the third line at Coachella, though.
I haven't seen it in an interview lately but a Plastikman album is coming out by the end of next year supposedly. He's stepping away from just doing CLOSE shows to focus on that and a new live show.
edit: I will say after looking more at the undercard, it's deep with acts I genuinely love from top to bottom. Something still just seems to be missing though. Maybe that's just me glossing over Aphex after seeing him in 2017? I just expect more even though at this point I probably shouldn't. If the headliners were the problem this year, I then just look back to last year and wonder what the issue was then. Maybe the acts they have been putting 4-9 genuinely have something to do with it (outside of just a decreasing lack of interest).
To be honest, after going to FYF & Panorama 2017, my interest for festivals has generally decreased. Although I thoroughly enjoyed ACL, Coachella, and Big Ears since then, most of NA lineups don't make me as excited, especially seeing all those Europe/UK lineups. I'm still looking for a festival like DfN/FYF/Panorama that would make me very excited; but given situation of current festivals it's less likely to get such a lineup in future it seems.
edit: I will say after looking more at the undercard, it's deep with acts I genuinely love from top to bottom. Something still just seems to be missing though. Maybe that's just me glossing over Aphex after seeing him in 2017? I just expect more even though at this point I probably shouldn't. If the headliners were the problem this year, I then just look back to last year and wonder what the issue was then. Maybe the acts they have been putting 4-9 genuinely have something to do with it (outside of just a decreasing lack of interest).
To be honest, after going to FYF & Panorama 2017, my interest for festivals has generally decreased. Although I thoroughly enjoyed ACL, Coachella, and Big Ears since then, most of NA lineups don't make me as excited, especially seeing all those Europe/UK lineups. I'm still looking for a festival like DfN/FYF/Panorama that would make me very excited; but given situation of current festivals it's less likely to get such a lineup in future it seems.
Someone will throw something together like that and it'll last 1 year. DFN is a prime example of why we can't have fests like that.
I honestly think part of the missing demand was something that not too many of us would have cared about all that much - EDM. Sahara was extremely rap heavy this year. That's been the trend for awhile, but Saturday was three rap acts back-to-back to close the tent, and Sunday had four rap acts back-to-back. Acts like YG obviously killed in there, but replacing (or simply moving to another stage, there was definitely room) some of the others with easy to grab acts like ZHU/Tchami/Dog Blood/RL Grime would have I think tipped them over into sellout. They have the best stage for EDM outside of Tomorrowland, and they had Carti and Gucci Gang take the helm after dark. Not terribly hard to imagine a lot of people that might have gone got pulled over toward EDC, Ultra, and maybe even Lightning in a Bottle.
edit: I will say after looking more at the undercard, it's deep with acts I genuinely love from top to bottom. Something still just seems to be missing though. Maybe that's just me glossing over Aphex after seeing him in 2017? I just expect more even though at this point I probably shouldn't. If the headliners were the problem this year, I then just look back to last year and wonder what the issue was then. Maybe the acts they have been putting 4-9 genuinely have something to do with it (outside of just a decreasing lack of interest).
To be honest, after going to FYF & Panorama 2017, my interest for festivals has generally decreased. Although I thoroughly enjoyed ACL, Coachella, and Big Ears since then, most of NA lineups don't make me as excited, especially seeing all those Europe/UK lineups. I'm still looking for a festival like DfN/FYF/Panorama that would make me very excited; but given situation of current festivals it's less likely to get such a lineup in future it seems.
Yeah I’ve said this before, but there’s some truth to it this time, ‘20 will likely be my final Coachella for the foreseeable future. Just so frustrating knowing what kind of events are happening in Europe that I’m unfortunately not really in a position to travel to right now. Will try to get back to Melt one more time and maybe knock Prima off the bucket list sometime over the next decade. Would be super nice to have an FYF or DFN around again so I wouldn’t have to travel so far though.
And yet the old man continued to rant on the internet about why his chosen festival stopped booking all of the music he wants*
Last Edit: Apr 28, 2019 19:15:36 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
As these things get bigger, the economics just don't make sense anymore. You really need to be near a major city with a big arts scene to have any shot of that sort of festival making money, and it can't be that big because it just doesn't scale. Chicago has Pitchfork, we'll probably get something like FYF in LA again, and NYC is really hard to do because locations are all prohibitive in some way or another.
There's a whole lot of reasons we're never getting something like Coachella 2008 again: most of the acts who want to do a reunion for a festival have already been reunited, artist fees have gone way way up with the proliferation of festivals, people and artists have both become pickier about what they'll go to because of all the options...those days are probably gone, for the near future at least. We're going to continue to get huge headliners with some sort of cachet from Coachella, along with a couple great grabs mixed into a popularity-oriented second line, with an incredibly deep and interesting undercard. That's the ceiling in this environment, and Coachella's been delivering for the past few years, IMO. But the days where 80% of the second line appealed to music nerds are probably gone forever.
To be honest, after going to FYF & Panorama 2017, my interest for festivals has generally decreased. Although I thoroughly enjoyed ACL, Coachella, and Big Ears since then, most of NA lineups don't make me as excited, especially seeing all those Europe/UK lineups. I'm still looking for a festival like DfN/FYF/Panorama that would make me very excited; but given situation of current festivals it's less likely to get such a lineup in future it seems.
Someone will throw something together like that and it'll last 1 year. DFN is a prime example of why we can't have fests like that.
DfN and FYF would happen last year and maybe even this year, if the founders of both festivals were decent people.
As these things get bigger, the economics just don't make sense anymore. You really need to be near a major city with a big arts scene to have any shot of that sort of festival making money, and it can't be that big because it just doesn't scale. Chicago has Pitchfork, we'll probably get something like FYF in LA again, and NYC is really hard to do because locations are all prohibitive in some way or another.
There's a whole lot of reasons we're never getting something like Coachella 2008 again: most of the acts who want to do a reunion for a festival have already been reunited, artist fees have gone way way up with the proliferation of festivals, people and artists have both become pickier about what they'll go to because of all the options...those days are probably gone, for the near future at least. We're going to continue to get huge headliners with some sort of cachet from Coachella, along with a couple great grabs mixed into a popularity-oriented second line, with an incredibly deep and interesting undercard. That's the ceiling in this environment, and Coachella's been delivering for the past few years, IMO. But the days where 80% of the second line appealed to music nerds are probably gone forever.
Even if they did get acts on the 2nd line we all love, most of us on here have seen them all before, and a lot of them would be retread bookings for Coachella themselves. The truth is, if you've been going to shows and festivals for a decade+, the Aphex Twin/Jamiroquai/Soulwax bookings are all you can really hope for nowadays. Fuck, even though Primavera's lineup is good I've had an easy chance to see everyone but Stereolab. Even they are playing a small theater in Detroit this fall.
I honestly think part of the missing demand was something that not too many of us would have cared about all that much - EDM. Sahara was extremely rap heavy this year. That's been the trend for awhile, but Saturday was three rap acts back-to-back to close the tent, and Sunday had four rap acts back-to-back. Acts like YG obviously killed in there, but replacing (or simply moving to another stage, there was definitely room) some of the others with easy to grab acts like ZHU/Tchami/Dog Blood/RL Grime would have I think tipped them over into sellout. They have the best stage for EDM outside of Tomorrowland, and they had Carti and Gucci Gang take the helm after dark. Not terribly hard to imagine a lot of people that might have gone got pulled over toward EDC, Ultra, and maybe even Lightning in a Bottle.
Eh, nobody with a passing interest in Coachella follows stage placement as close as we do, so an EDM fan would have still seen Diplo, DJ Snake, Dillon Francis, ZEDD, Bassnectar, etc. and been more than happy in attending IMO. Not many people like us follow closely enough to put two and two together that so-and-so will be playing at X time so maybe another EDM act or two could have been booked over a rapper. I also hate to generalize, but the type of attendee who prioritizes EDM also will most likely want to be there to be seen / for the gram / etc. so I doubt that one act or two make or break their decision.
I know I've said this before and got tomatoes thrown at me and people yelling "35 year old like Janelle Monae too, you moron!" but I honestly think it was a lack of lineup appeal to the +30 year old crowd that hurt this year. There's always going to be a fixed amount of SoCal college students and recent grads who see Coachella as a rite of passage and go regardless of lineup, but I think the older crowd is the variable hinge between packed and not-quite-sellout.
Just last year you had an art-rock legend (Byrne), a two decade old hard rock band (APC), and many other rock-oriented acts with decade long careers (Fleet Foxes, St. Vincent, WoD, etc.). This year essentially had Weezer from the first 2.5 lines if you're a +30 year old who likes rock. I know +30 year old people like Solange, Monae, Paak, etc. but there's a difference between enjoying someone's music, and committing a four figure weekend in the desert to it. If Coachella is a constant four legged stool balance between pop-rap-electronic-rock, this was the first year ever I didn't feel the balance was there from a rock perspective to justify the cost of going.
Additionally, in general while the lineup was well curated, it's hard to paint any of the acts as non-ubiquitous. Just looking at the three subs - Monae was everywhere last year, Solange was just on the festival circuit two years ago, and Khalid was all over the festival circuit last year. And I know #DifferentFests, but Monae wasn't even top 20 at ACL in 2018 (!) and Solange got a huge bump from an album without much of a mainstream impact.
I know its anecdotal, but my 14 person house of late 20s / early 30s people from last year had a grand total of 2 people return this year.
