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They managed to keep multiple age groups coming back with the lineups before. Those who have already made the plight are less likely to return unless you draw them back with music they enjoy. You could say that the festival market was different 4 years ago, but there's plenty of active talent going around today that we would prefer to have in those spots (and I'd like to think extends beyond forum culture as well).
A far as the difference in acts booked #4-9: just looking at the last four years one can see an obvious drop off here.
Ellie Goulding, Sufjan Stevens, Ice Cube, Sia, Disclosure, Major Lazer
The xx, Travis Scott, Bon Iver, Future, Lorde, Justice
vs.
SZA, Kygo, Haim, Tyler, Odesza, Portugal the Man
Janelle Monae, The 1975, Solange, Kid Cudi, Khalid, Zedd
They managed to keep multiple age groups coming back with the lineups before. Those who have already made the plight are less likely to return unless you draw them back with music they enjoy. You could say that the festival market was different 4 years ago, but there's plenty of active talent going around today that we would prefer to have in those spots (and I'd like to think extends beyond forum culture as well).
A far as the difference in acts booked #4-9: just looking at the last four years one can see an obvious drop off here.
Ellie Goulding, Sufjan Stevens, Ice Cube, Sia, Disclosure, Major Lazer
The xx, Travis Scott, Bon Iver, Future, Lorde, Justice
vs.
SZA, Kygo, Haim, Tyler, Odesza, Portugal the Man
Janelle Monae, The 1975, Solange, Kid Cudi, Khalid, Zedd
They managed to keep multiple age groups coming back with the lineups before. Those who have already made the plight are less likely to return unless you draw them back with music they enjoy. You could say that the festival market was different 4 years ago, but there's plenty of active talent going around today that we would prefer to have in those spots (and I'd like to think extends beyond forum culture as well).
A far as the difference in acts booked #4-9: just looking at the last four years one can see an obvious drop off here.
Ellie Goulding, Sufjan Stevens, Ice Cube, Sia, Disclosure, Major Lazer
The xx, Travis Scott, Bon Iver, Future, Lorde, Justice
vs.
SZA, Kygo, Haim, Tyler, Odesza, Portugal the Man
Janelle Monae, The 1975, Solange, Kid Cudi, Khalid, Zedd
Drop off to who?
That’s 2017> 2019 > 2018 > 2016
That’s 16/17 against 18/19. It just looks like those spots went to more credible talent even up to just a couple of years ago.
Last Edit: Apr 28, 2019 21:14:25 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
Do you really think Haim was ready to sub? Were you excited by the prospect of Portugal the Man and Kid Cudi? There’s been some pretty lackluster names in those spots lately.
Also, since I've seen a lot of talk about them the last few pages, I'm going to say I have a weird feeling there's something at odds between The National and this fest.
They haven't played since 2011 and have seemingly had a number of good opportunities to play but never end up on the poster. Even this year, they just played their new album in full in LA on 4/26 with guest spots from Feist and Phoebe Bridgers - you'd think "The National debut new songs at Coachella with special guests" would have been a big publicity thing for both them and the fest (after having its "indie cred" continually questioned). Additionally, Dressner is playing with Vernon as Big Red Machine tonight... you'd think The National on Friday and Big Red Machine on Sunday would have been a great booking for both this year. Given how often Vernon has played, I doubt he was the one who wouldn't have wanted to do it.
Anyway, who knows, they could play in 2020 (but it will already be 11 months after an album that will keep them in the same sphere of popularity), but just getting the vibes they or GV don't want them.
Do you really think Haim was ready to sub? Were you excited by the prospect of Portugal the Man and Kid Cudi? There’s been some pretty lackluster names in those spots lately.
I was excited by Cudi as were the tens of thousands who overflowed the Sahara. PtM has to happen sooner or later. HAIM was heading that way then dropped a dud but they’re also the year I ranked the lowest. Minus the NWA reunion what did ice cube do that he hasn’t done at every kday festival the last decade? Sufjan May win over the boards but most outsiders were not a fan as you can tell because it did not propel his popularity.
Cudi and PTM could have fallen to a #4 (or even a #5) and nobody would have batted an eye. Nobody would have been shocked at SZA or Janelle at a #3 or #4. They're not talking about wanting them on the lineup, they're talking about their billing. And I agree.
In 2017, legendary electro duo and the hottest two rappers of that year landed as #3s. People were saying Bon Iver wouldn't take a non-headlining spot and he took a #2. Any of the #2 or #3 slots in 2017 would have been the strongest #2 or #3 or 17/18 except for ODESZA.
Ice Cube clearly got a #2 because they shot for NWA for the headliner and couldn't get it together.
I would argue that PTM didn’t have to happen sooner or later, at least not in that spot. NWA reunion was a pretty big deal even if Ice Cube did the same old thing for the rest of the set. Kind of a stat that can’t be downplayed. Sufjan might not be as buzz worthy as say Khalid or whatever. He did, however, satisfy a certain demo (and chances are some of those don’t even post on festival forums). I actually like Cudi, but not in a top 3 spot. I personally just haven’t been excited by anything they’ve put there recently. I’ve heard others say similar things. They could do better.
Post by problem dog on Apr 28, 2019 22:28:12 GMT -5
"Legendary electro duo" is laying it on a little thick. I saw 20 minutes of Justice and it was good. Janelle Monae was way better. I went to 3/4 of those years and didn't see any of the other listed names, so I guess I don't get my value from the 4-9 spots.
Janelle’s billing at other 2019 festivals seem more appropriate for her at this stage.
I remember reading that article a few years back where PT talked about how they were going to try new things and I always thought that was in reference to the pop-push. Now it feels like cutting corners on the second line played into that some too.
That’s not meant to be a knock on any of those acts btw. Billie Eilish for instance could have probably demanded a higher spot. I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s back as a 2 or 3 next year.
"Legendary electro duo" is laying it on a little thick. I saw 20 minutes of Justice and it was good. Janelle Monae was way better. I went to 3/4 of those years and didn't see any of the other listed names, so I guess I don't get my value from the 4-9 spots.
Justice is pretty legendary, and they put on a fantastic show.
Agree with the larger point people are making though.
My tinfoil hat theory is that they were expecting Janelle to win big at the Grammys this year and not Kacey, which would explain why their billings are more or less swapped between Coachella and Lollapalooza.
My tinfoil hat theory is that they were expecting Janelle to win big at the Grammys this year and not Kacey, which would explain why their billings are more or less swapped between Coachella and Lollapalooza.
Paul has always said country artists are pretty straightforward negotiations and easy to deal with on lineup placement. I think it’s a combination of what you said and that.
"Legendary electro duo" is laying it on a little thick. I saw 20 minutes of Justice and it was good. Janelle Monae was way better. I went to 3/4 of those years and didn't see any of the other listed names, so I guess I don't get my value from the 4-9 spots.
Justice is pretty legendary, and they put on a fantastic show.
Agree with the larger point people are making though.
I see the larger point as well, but Justice isn't a bigger #3 than Zedd, The 1975, Kygo...if they're being used as an example of the kind of blockbuster #3 the festival used to book, I'm saying this is just another example of "Coachella is suffering because they won't book the acts I want."
This is a limiting conversation anyway, because Jamiroquai and Byrne were 4s, and Aphex Twin was a 5. At least two of those were very expensive bookings, they just don't command higher billing.
We also had a second line that ended with J Balvin, Billie Eilish and Bassnectar this year. Anderson .Paak and Kacey Musgraves were third line. It's not like they snuck Fisher and Gucci onto the top two lines and pocketed the extra cash.
Also, since I've seen a lot of talk about them the last few pages, I'm going to say I have a weird feeling there's something at odds between The National and this fest.
They haven't played since 2011 and have seemingly had a number of good opportunities to play but never end up on the poster. Even this year, they just played their new album in full in LA on 4/26 with guest spots from Feist and Phoebe Bridgers - you'd think "The National debut new songs at Coachella with special guests" would have been a big publicity thing for both them and the fest (after having its "indie cred" continually questioned). Additionally, Dressner is playing with Vernon as Big Red Machine tonight... you'd think The National on Friday and Big Red Machine on Sunday would have been a great booking for both this year. Given how often Vernon has played, I doubt he was the one who wouldn't have wanted to do it.
Anyway, who knows, they could play in 2020 (but it will already be 11 months after an album that will keep them in the same sphere of popularity), but just getting the vibes they or GV don't want them.
The National were hosting their own festival, the past year or two, the week after Coachella - so assuming they were heavily involved in logistics/wanted to draw the largest audience possible, they were never going to play Coachella. So that's almost definitely why they whiffed on Sleep Well Beast. I can see them passing up this year (2019) either to A. Plan for a fest that they ultimately didn't wind up doing (so they couldn't commit to the booking). B. to come back around after the album they release and play 2020. If they don't play next year in some capacity, I agree, there might be something up.
Justice is pretty legendary, and they put on a fantastic show.
Agree with the larger point people are making though.
I see the larger point as well, but Justice isn't a bigger #3 than Zedd, The 1975, Kygo...if they're being used as an example of the kind of blockbuster #3 the festival used to book, I'm saying this is just another example of "Coachella is suffering because they won't book the acts I want."
This is a limiting conversation anyway, because Jamiroquai and Byrne were 4s, and Aphex Twin was a 5. At least two of those were very expensive bookings, they just don't command higher billing.
We also had a second line that ended with J Balvin, Billie Eilish and Bassnectar this year. Anderson .Paak and Kacey Musgraves were third line. It's not like they snuck Fisher and Gucci onto the top two lines and pocketed the extra cash.
I think it's more nuanced than "who is bigger". Of course Zedd is more popular than Justice, of course Khalid is more well known than Bon Iver. But are people going specifically for Zedd or Khalid when they can see similar acts like DJ Snake, Diplo, Francis, Bassnectar, Cudi, etc? For example, if you subtract Zedd from the lineup, would that have a greater effect than subtracting Justice from 2017? or even Aphex from this year? I feel like the Justice/Aphex type of artists are what put a certain fanbase over the edge, where as the pop crowd isn't basing their decision on Zedd since there's so much to fall back on.
I see the larger point as well, but Justice isn't a bigger #3 than Zedd, The 1975, Kygo...if they're being used as an example of the kind of blockbuster #3 the festival used to book, I'm saying this is just another example of "Coachella is suffering because they won't book the acts I want."
This is a limiting conversation anyway, because Jamiroquai and Byrne were 4s, and Aphex Twin was a 5. At least two of those were very expensive bookings, they just don't command higher billing.
We also had a second line that ended with J Balvin, Billie Eilish and Bassnectar this year. Anderson .Paak and Kacey Musgraves were third line. It's not like they snuck Fisher and Gucci onto the top two lines and pocketed the extra cash.
Here's the thing though. If an artist like Billie Eilish (who by the time the festival came around was really a subheadliner) accepted a #7 slot, that meant that she was obtainable at #7. Honestly what's impressed me most about Coachella is who they have managed to get at the end of the second/beginning of the third line recently, obviously grabbing Kacey, Billie, Cardi B, Paak, etc right before the heat ratcheted upward. Their intuition there has been virtually flawless. Get acts right before they blow up big time. That takes some cojones to bet on who would do that (I remember the reaction to both Billie and Cardi in January was "wow they're billed way too high" but by April they looked undervalued). And they've been great at it.
But the question I think a lot of us have been raising are the subs they book *only* obtainable at a #2 spot? 2017 certainly. People thought Bon Iver might have a chance at headlining the fest. Lorde and The XX could fall no lower than a #2. In fact, they also booked some very big acts at a #3.
Then the past few years...was Janelle a "#2 or bust" act? Was SZA really a #2 or bust? Would PtM and Kid Cudi have refused to play the festival if they were slotted at a #4? I think part of it is just taking bets on things that didn't pan out (Solange's album kind of whiffed but obviously GV thought there was a chance it'd be huge). But Janelle (who I fucking love) and SZA at a #2 is just weak compared to prior years. The only #2 from the past two years that I think couldn't have conceivably fallen less than that was ODESZA. Maybe Khalid too but I think that was just a weak pick to play the fest in general as nobody seemed all that excited about him, and nobody seemed to leave his set with anything other than a "meh" reaction. And with the #3s...Zedd definitely isn't anything less than a #3 probably (although Snake has done #4 recently) and The 1975 is a strong #3, but PtM, Cudi, Tyler seems like they could have been had at #4.
It's like the NFL Draft. Sure you really wanted that act, but it feels like many of the #2s recently were snapped up a round too early when they could have had them during a later round.
On another note entirely, help me flush out my mock.
If I have Plastikman closing the Mojave, who should close out the Yuma as counter programming? And who would be good counter programming against The Black Madonna in a tent? And on a broader level who are good Yuma names to think about next year? Know nothing about that tent, I've been inside it for 15 minutes these past two years.
Is there any up-and-coming hardcore band that could play a Turnstile role?
This gets so much harder because with the way musicians move through Spotify these days, there are third and fourth liners next year that have released maybe a single by now.
black midi isn't hardcore but they're gonna blow up this year, and I think they fit a similar role on the lineup.
Gracias! I have them on my list for Sonora, there's this slot on my schedule mock against a poppier headliner in the Gobi that I would love to see something like Turnstile, Drive Like Jehu, Swans, Deafheaven etc in. I know that slot has usually been a bust in the past but I like it.
black midi isn't hardcore but they're gonna blow up this year, and I think they fit a similar role on the lineup.
Gracias! I have them on my list for Sonora, there's this slot on my schedule mock against a poppier headliner in the Gobi that I would love to see something like Turnstile, Drive Like Jehu, Swans, Deafheaven etc in. I know that slot has usually been a bust in the past but I like it.
I didn't realize Turnstile was a similar level to those other acts, in that case maybe something like Bikini Kill but they might want to highlight them more.
I didn't realize Turnstile was a similar level to those other acts, in that case maybe something like Bikini Kill but they might want to highlight them more.
Sorry don't get me wrong - wouldn't put Turnstile at the prestige level of that type of act. More of a mood I'm aiming for with a specific slot. Think if Bikini Kill would have happened it'd be this year.
