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Considering I work with a number of far-right leaning individuals, I usually keep my mouth shut when it comes to politics and current affairs.
There's at least one Three Percenter. There might be Oath Keepers, wouldn't surprise me if there was. My supervisor is a NRA member and openly talks about Trump. I've seen several people have Breitbart loaded up on their computers. One of my coworkers listens to talk radio all day long.
I do not match up with the culture here at all, which is the worst part of being here.
I think there may be some opportunity in Nevada for progressives, lol.
Cast off your chains and work for purpose, comrade ! It's spring, and the blossoming is just beginning !!
workers rights are absolute garbage lol people get fired over less every day
Yes, and that’s a bad thing. If in order to keep your job, you must fit into the beliefs and opinions of your co-workers or stay silent, that’s a bad thing.
workers rights are absolute garbage lol people get fired over less every day
Yes, and that’s a bad thing. If in order to keep your job, you must fit into the beliefs and opinions of your co-workers or stay silent, that’s a bad thing.
Did you not read what anyone said?
If he is fired from the band it will almost certainly be a business decision first and foremost.
Although it should be noted that being in a band is a unique working relationship where you are stuck together for long tours and in the studio, etc. It not like me having to listening to stupid ass redneck opnions maybe 5 hours a week. I can mostly avoid it or ignore it. I'm not in a shared creative process where I'm stuck with these people for hours on end. This also brings up the question of can the creative process still be successful under such a split in worldviews.
As to Ngo himself. It's 100% not just his bad opnions that people dislike. He's on the same level as Steven Crowder and Alex Jones where he purposefully misleads his audience. The difference is Ngo somehow has a bit more claim to being a journalist. So that makes it more harmful when he does shitty ass articles claiming people are antifa. This has lead to journalists getting death threats from violent, murderous groups like Atomwaffen.
He's also on video hanging out and laughing with Patriot's Prayer/ Proud Boys in Portland while they openly planned a brawl with people they suspected of being Antifa.
As an individual he might seem harmless but his platform and the way he misinforms his idiot fans is demonstratedly dangerous.
I'd also like to say that anyone that takes Andy Ngo seriously is a goddamn idiot and I want nothing to do with them. I'm under no obligation to respect everyone's opinions.
I respect your opinions about this, but I disagree with firing/cancelling people over their opinions
What if those “opinions” were far-right ideologies. And the job/position they held was a police officer, politician, or similar? Do you think that person could be justifiably fired for their beliefs?
Lol they're not kicking him out of the band. They're past their prime and not gaining relevancy in any way - their path forward is to continue living off their past successes, which generally means not switching things up. Mumford fans are largely mainstream white Millenials (though maybe some older Zoomers too) - many of whom only "care" enough about political issues to maybe post something on Facebook about a topic and nothing else. They're not abandoning Mumford & Sons over a Tweet about a book. Winston's gonna take some time off to let it blow over and that'll be the end of it. See also: Doja Cat, Nicki Minaj, XXXTentacion, etc.
Chris Brown smashed Rihanna's face in and just hit #3 on the Billboard Hot 100. No one's gonna give a shit about M&S's banjo player's shitty tweet.
I respect your opinions about this, but I disagree with firing/cancelling people over their opinions
What if those “opinions” were far-right ideologies. And the job/position they held was a police officer, politician, or similar? Do you think that person could be justifiably fired for their beliefs?
No, I don’t. There are numerous politicians with far right ideologies. It’s a major reason they have their jobs in the first place.
Would you want people fired for having far left opinions?
I feel like if we are okay with being hypocritical about this, then that’s at least an honest conversation.
What if those “opinions” were far-right ideologies. And the job/position they held was a police officer, politician, or similar? Do you think that person could be justifiably fired for their beliefs?
No, I don’t. There are numerous politicians with far right ideologies. It’s a major reason they have their jobs in the first place.
Would you want people fired for having far left opinions?
I feel like if we are okay with being hypocritical about this, then that’s at least an honest conversation.
I feel like you and other folks are talking past each other here. Do you think it’s ever okay for people to lose their jobs for their political views and how they express them? If so, when?
For me there are a ton of different facts and circumstances to weigh in every case. Public figures whose jobs give them access huge platforms should absolutely be held to a higher standard. On the other hand if you were pumping Ngo’s book on Twitter then no, you shouldn’t lose your job over it. If someone at work is pro-life and occasionally makes vague statements about it, no, they shouldn’t lose their job for it. But if they’re handing out lit with pictures of aborted fetuses on it that’s creating a hostile work places. There’s no one sized fits all answer.
Post by itrainmonkeys on Mar 10, 2021 20:13:49 GMT -5
Also, let's be clear there's a difference in being "cancelled" and being "fired".
I hated the term "cancel culture" when I first started hearing it. Now that it's become a main talking point for the right it's going to drive me nuts for years as they are going to claim everything is being "cancelled". Piers Morgan just gave a televised press conference/interview thing complaining about how he's had his freedom of speech trampled and taken from him because he lost his job for being shitty. He'll end up with many more avenues to spew his bullshit and use his voice.
I'm waiting until someone brings up in response to the right that "cancel culture" is a problem and it's crazy that people would cancel the Dixie Chicks or Colin Kaepernick for simply stating their opinions. How does the right spin that shit? It was only a year ago they were calling for boycotts of NFL & Nike and telling people to destroy their keurig machines.
No, I don’t. There are numerous politicians with far right ideologies. It’s a major reason they have their jobs in the first place.
Would you want people fired for having far left opinions?
I feel like if we are okay with being hypocritical about this, then that’s at least an honest conversation.
I feel like you and other folks are talking past each other here. Do you think it’s ever okay for people to lose their jobs for their political views and how they express them? If so, when?
For me there are a ton of different facts and circumstances to weigh in every case. Public figures whose jobs give them access huge platforms should absolutely be held to a higher standard. On the other hand if you were pumping Ngo’s book on Twitter then no, you shouldn’t lose your job over it. If someone at work is pro-life and occasionally makes vague statements about it, no, they shouldn’t lose their job for it. But if they’re handing out lit with pictures of aborted fetuses on it that’s creating a hostile work places. There’s no one sized fits all answer.
Yeah, it's actions and consequences more than simply having those opinions. The Mumford situation is mostly theoretical anyway because we don't know the details of the band's relationship. But it seems reasonable that if his views are hurting the bottom line he could be let go. Same for if it's causing undue stress in the work environment. There's a chance that none of them give a shit. Who knows. Or cares, honestly.
But going with Monie's example. If a cop has far-right views then he's potentially a risk to the civil rights of citizens of color or even their lives. None of us are ignorant of the fact that their are plenty of cops with right wing beliefs. The question here is do you have to wait until they commit an actionable offense to fire them. Or do you go for reform methods and hope for the best. Depends on how far their political believes have taken them. If they are part of those police "gangs" that proudly target folks then they should obviously be let go. On and on.
Jackiter asked if far left-wing folks should be fired in those same positions. I would think it was hilarious if there were a lot of anarchists or communists in police forces. First, why are people who don't believe in hierarchical structures cops? Why are people who believe the police's main function is the protection of capitol and property cops? Should they be fired? Maybe, yes. As long as we live in this paradigm you probably don't want people who are likely going to undermine the basic ideas of an institution in your institution. Depends on what they are doing there and if could lead to dereliction of duty or harm to the public. If they are just misguided and think they are going to change the system from within they are likely harmless but I wouldn't be shocked that they arn't trusted or wanted around.
I feel like you and other folks are talking past each other here. Do you think it’s ever okay for people to lose their jobs for their political views and how they express them? If so, when?
For me there are a ton of different facts and circumstances to weigh in every case. Public figures whose jobs give them access huge platforms should absolutely be held to a higher standard. On the other hand if you were pumping Ngo’s book on Twitter then no, you shouldn’t lose your job over it. If someone at work is pro-life and occasionally makes vague statements about it, no, they shouldn’t lose their job for it. But if they’re handing out lit with pictures of aborted fetuses on it that’s creating a hostile work places. There’s no one sized fits all answer.
Yeah, it's actions and consequences more than simply having those opinions. The Mumford situation is mostly theoretical anyway because we don't know the details of the band's relationship. But it seems reasonable that if his views are hurting the bottom line he could be let go. Same for if it's causing undue stress in the work environment. There's a chance that none of them give a shit. Who knows. Or cares, honestly.
But going with Monie's example. If a cop has far-right views then he's potentially a risk to the civil rights of citizens of color or even their lives. None of us are ignorant of the fact that their are plenty of cops with right wing beliefs. The question here is do you have to wait until they commit an actionable offense to fire them. Or do you go for reform methods and hope for the best. Depends on how far their political believes have taken them. If they are part of those police "gangs" that proudly target folks then they should obviously be let go. On and on.
Jackiter asked if far left-wing folks should be fired in those same positions. I would think it was hilarious if there were a lot of anarchists or communists in police forces. First, why are people who don't believe in hierarchical structures cops? Why are people who believe the police's main function is the protection of capitol and property cops? Should they be fired? Maybe, yes. As long as we live in this paradigm you probably don't want people who are likely going to undermine the basic ideas of an institution in your institution. Depends on what they are doing there and if could lead to dereliction of duty or harm to the public. If they are just misguided and think they are going to change the system from within they are likely harmless but I wouldn't be shocked that they arn't trusted or wanted around.
I appreciate that the conversation has started to veer in a more nuanced way that I was incapable of doing myself. I also found myself feeling compelled to defend a position that I honestly wasn’t sure I fully believed myself. I’ve just found myself more and more frustrated by all these relatively trivial things (like Potato Head, Dr Seuss, Pepe le Pew) being blown so out of proportion that it made me frustrated with all examples of cancel culture.
There are for sure differences between having opinions vs acting on them to the detriment of your organization or others; or having opinions vs using your public platform to promote them in a way that hurts a brand image. And we don’t know why precisely he’s stepping away from the band.
And when I say “relatively trivial” things in regards to the examples above, please understand that I mean the origins of the controversies were all much more simple than the resulting backlash. Potato Head made a basic brand change. The Dr. Seuss books were not cancelled by the Biden Administration. Pepe le Pew was a sexually predatory character that honestly was irrelevant now. None of this should’ve been a big deal.
My final comment: fuuuuuuuuuuuuck Woody Allen. That dude gotta go
Yeah, it's actions and consequences more than simply having those opinions. The Mumford situation is mostly theoretical anyway because we don't know the details of the band's relationship. But it seems reasonable that if his views are hurting the bottom line he could be let go. Same for if it's causing undue stress in the work environment. There's a chance that none of them give a shit. Who knows. Or cares, honestly.
But going with Monie's example. If a cop has far-right views then he's potentially a risk to the civil rights of citizens of color or even their lives. None of us are ignorant of the fact that their are plenty of cops with right wing beliefs. The question here is do you have to wait until they commit an actionable offense to fire them. Or do you go for reform methods and hope for the best. Depends on how far their political believes have taken them. If they are part of those police "gangs" that proudly target folks then they should obviously be let go. On and on.
Jackiter asked if far left-wing folks should be fired in those same positions. I would think it was hilarious if there were a lot of anarchists or communists in police forces. First, why are people who don't believe in hierarchical structures cops? Why are people who believe the police's main function is the protection of capitol and property cops? Should they be fired? Maybe, yes. As long as we live in this paradigm you probably don't want people who are likely going to undermine the basic ideas of an institution in your institution. Depends on what they are doing there and if could lead to dereliction of duty or harm to the public. If they are just misguided and think they are going to change the system from within they are likely harmless but I wouldn't be shocked that they arn't trusted or wanted around.
I appreciate that the conversation has started to veer in a more nuanced way that I was incapable of doing myself. I also found myself feeling compelled to defend a position that I honestly wasn’t sure I fully believed myself. I’ve just found myself more and more frustrated by all these relatively trivial things (like Potato Head, Dr Seuss, Pepe le Pew) being blown so out of proportion that it made me frustrated with all examples of cancel culture.
There are for sure differences between having opinions vs acting on them to the detriment of your organization or others; or having opinions vs using your public platform to promote them in a way that hurts a brand image. And we don’t know why precisely he’s stepping away from the band.
And when I say “relatively trivial” things in regards to the examples above, please understand that I mean the origins of the controversies were all much more simple than the resulting backlash. Potato Head made a basic brand change. The Dr. Seuss books were not cancelled by the Biden Administration. Pepe le Pew was a sexually predatory character that honestly was irrelevant now. None of this should’ve been a big deal.
My final comment: fuuuuuuuuuuuuck Woody Allen. That dude gotta go
Yeah, being from the south you know how the war on Christmas shit has worked all these years. Not that people on the left don't get out of sorts at times but the right wing media thrives on misinformation and blowing this shit way out of proportion. They have little else to offer their base but outrage and fear. One way to keep people fearful is presenting an absurd world were things seem totally out of sorts and distorted from their view of reality.
That video I posted on the last page goes into this more but it's also frustrating that brands sometimes engage in this stuff for marketing reasons over any real sense of wanting to change things for the better. Kinda makes things shit just keep spinning.
My final comment: fuuuuuuuuuuuuck Woody Allen. That dude gotta go
I was starting to think I was the only one watching Allen vs Farrow. This shit is wild. I don't know how Woody Allen hasn't been completely blacklisted since the 90s.
My final comment: fuuuuuuuuuuuuck Woody Allen. That dude gotta go
I was starting to think I was the only one watching Allen vs Farrow. This shit is wild. I don't know how Woody Allen hasn't been completely blacklisted since the 90s.
I mean, I do. Money.
No. You aren’t the only one watching. I have been and I’m horrified. The audio tapes of Dylan had me throwing things at the TV.
