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I'm sorry. I was wrong to suggest that someone do a thing that has only been done one time before.
"make better arguments"
You're the one who said they'd be playing a tent in front of 50 people, which Bonnaroo has allowed to happen several times (Deafheaven, Meshuggah, Pallbearer, BTBAM all played to similar crowds to what Sunn would pull), a point which you just ignored and deflected.
Post by piggy pablo on Sept 7, 2020 2:09:16 GMT -5
I respect how much thought you all put into your Thursdays but I'm only going to embarrass myself trying to distinguish between them, so I'm doing Friday-Sunday schedules here:
Sangdeto:
Haynes > De La > Rateliff > 2 Chainz > Hot Since 82 > Black Coffee > Primus > Rage > SBTRKT > Dynohunter
Mdou Moctar > Hiatus Kaiyote > Kiwanuka > Femi > The Highwomen > > Lana Del Rey > New Order > Sir Paul
These schedules are both sick. I haven't looked at a bunch of others, but these will be hard to top. Sangdeto has a little less downtime for me, though.
Chandler Bing / Rummy Delicious Meatball Sub / Larry Farnsworth
Bing/Rummy vs DMS/Juggs is an interesting matchup because in some ways their lineups are opposites: Bing/Rummy have my favourite set of headliners in the game, but the undercard is full of a lot of acts that are more “oh that could be cool” than “I have to see this”. Iron Maiden, Taylor Swift, and Phish are my least favourite set of headliners in the game (maybe a passing curiosity about Taylor), but the undercard has way more going on for me than Bing/Rummy. Festivals are more about the overall strength of the lineup than the headliners for me, so point Frazzledrip.
I mean with Arctic Monkeys, Missy Eliott, Future, Kylie and QOTSA directly in their second lines, it's no wonder that theirs is perceived bigger. They booked like a handful of #4's. Perhaps that's not your point exactly with "overall strength", but it helps a ton just like yours vs Fred/Jaz.
Last Edit: Sept 7, 2020 2:49:46 GMT -5 by Bing - Back to Top
We should have just had people abstain from their own matchups. Would have avoided this and not made any significant difference
that makes it harder for me to count and it encourages people to vote cause they gotta vote for themselves if they wanna win. People wouldn’t vote as much if they already got their part, was a theory that some people did this in the polls and only voted for themselves.
Well not a theory, I actually saw someone do it.
Full disclosure, I did this this time around in the seeding poll. I meant to come back and use all my other votes but missed the deadline. I’ve had a lot going on the past couple of weeks and haven’t really been around much. As evidence to the fact that I’m responding to something that was posted sometime yesterday....
Anyways, when is the cut off for this round? Can I still vote or did it miss it?
Post by 3post1jack1 on Sept 7, 2020 13:08:17 GMT -5
Overall comments: Having participated in drafts in the past I understand how difficult they can be, and having to team up to do it would make it even more difficult. So my hats off to all of you. All of these lineups are truly impressive, and I would happily buy a ticket to any of them, you're all winners in my book etc. Also I didn't do any research into acts I didn't know.
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Sang/bandeto vs king t/jamestheram
Sang/bandeto (winner: quality 7, realism 7) 14
Thursday: ??? > ANNA
Friday: Railroad Earth > Warren Haynes > ??? > 2 Chainz > Hot Since 82 > Black Coffee > Primus > RATM > SBTRKT > Superjam
Saturday: Robert Glasper > Bully > Protomartyr > Digable Planets > Khruangbin > Common > Clutch > Bjork > Thee Oh Sees > Lizzo > Mastodon > DJ Seinfeld > Deafheaven
Sunday: Toots > DJ Tennis > The Roots > ??? > Nightmares on Wax > Metallica
COMMENTS: Three great days. Closing with Metallica helped a lot. Love the DJ Tennis Sunday set. That Saturday run in particular is crazy all day long. Starting a day with Robert Glasper would be *chef's kiss*
King t/jamestheram (loser: quality 6, realism 7) 13
Thursday: ??? > Sleaford Mods > Rocky Horror
Friday: We Were Promised Jetpacks > Lily Allen > serpentwithfeet > Deftones > Mount Kimbie > Pixies > Ariana Grande > Oysterhead
Saturday: U.S. Girls > Deerhoof > ??? > Lukas Nelson > Damian Marley > Fatboy Slim > Loretta Lynn > Travis Scott > Robyn > ???
Sunday: Michael Kiwanuka > Femi Kuti > The Kills > ??? > Bright Eyes > New Order > Paul McCartney
Comments: I'm shocked I didn't give this the win with both Oysterhead and New Order, but I think I'd just enjoy myself more consistently at sangdeto's. Other than a few choice acts it's a lot of sets I'd go to just to go to, not sets I'd be really excited to see.
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Dragon/whereispassionpit vs fearandparanoia/problem dog/emoney
Sunday: The Wailers > Glacher Lustwerk > Mall Grab > Flight of the Conchords > Turkuaz > Dead & Co
COMMENTS: Nice mixture of "good" electronic and bass music, plus Dead & Co to close won this for me. Gave you a little hit to realism because of some of the electronic acts (Mall Grab, Floating Points, etc.)
Sunday: Cherry Glazerr > ??? > Vince Staples > Steven Wilson > Claypool/Lennon > Paul Simon
COMMENTS: Lots of fun here, but also lots of gaps, and some of the sets I chose I still wasn't super excited about. Radiohead > GYBE > Bicep would've been epic though.
Frazzledrip (winner: quality 8, realism 6) 14
Thursday: Lydia Loveless > ??? > Jesus Piece > ??? > Headie One > Channel Tres > Octo Octa b2b Eris Drew
Friday: ??? > James Murphy DJ Set > Floorplan > Giorgio Moroder > Neko Case > Bruce Hornsby/Eric Prydz > Iron Maiden > Missy Elliot / Refused > Baroness
Saturday: Amanda Shires > Waxahatchee > Leon Vynehall > ??? > Annie Mac > Hot Chip > Taylor Swift > Queens / 2manyDJS > Nina Kraviz
Sunday: ??? > Jimmy Cliff > Stephen Malkmus > Dinorsaur Jr > Yonder > Day of the Dead Superjam / Blessed Madonna > Phish
COMMENTS: Although some of the electronic acts seem unlikely, I didn't penalize heavily for it because there were plenty of unlikely electronic acts on the other lineups. Friday is one of my favorite days across all the lineups. In particular Neko Case > Prydz > Maiden > Missy Elliot > Baroness feels very bonnaroo to me. Blessed Madonna > Phish would be like a dream way to close out Bonnaroo. This was also the only lineup with a Thursday that I knew who any of the acts were.
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Cap’n jim /cap’n mac vs jaz/fred
Cap’n jim /cap’n mac (winner: quality 6, realism 7) 13
Thursday: Middleditch & Schwartz > ??? > Ronnie Chieng > J Phlip > Patton Oswalt > ??? > Wanda Sykes > A Night at CBGB > Hannibal > Kikagaku Moyo > ???
Saturday: Karl D > Built to Spill > The Decemberists > of Montreal > Patti Smith > Televison > Denzel Curry > Claude VonStroke > Gorillaz > Jamiroquai > Peter Hook > JRAD
Sunday: Dweezil > Jurassic 5 > ??? > Explosions in the Sky > Lionel Richie > Thom Yorke > Actress > Pearl Jam
COMMENTS: Another lineup that feels very bonnaroo. Plenty to do and be excited about throughout the weekend. VonStroke > Gorillaz > Jamiroquai > Peter Hook > JRAD looks awesome. Also love Jurassic 5 on Sunday.
jaz/fred (loser: quality 5, realism 7) 12
Thursday: ???
Friday: Drive-By Truckers > Cold Cave > Dawes > Belle & Sebastian > Jesus and Mary Chain > Gambino > King Gizz / STS9
Saturday: ??? > MMW > Tierra Whack > ??? > Lady Gaga > Trey Band
Sunday: Johnny Marr > EOB > Anoushka Shankar > alt-J > Tenacious D > Arcade Fire
COMMENTS; Super surprised I didn't love this more considering it's Jaz and Fred who I share a lot of musical interests with. I'm guessing there are probably lots of acts on here I would like but don't know. Hurt a tiny bit by Gambino and Arcade Fire, both of whom I've seen and would've be super interested in seeing again. Still it would be a blast.
I'm very thankful for all our votes -- I also officially feel too old for the boards, basically we've been told we're out of touch and old. Maybe turning 35 during the draft made me realize that I just can't give a fuck and after the draft I'm done.
Feels kinda odd and on the same time logical to lose on quality because your realism is better. The more alternative, bigger and Inforoo-based you're curating the better it's gonna get perceived it seems despite not entirely being realistic. Which is.. well. Dissappointing idk.
Losing because your line-up is about on par with normal Bonnaroo line-ups and seems compared to other line up's to be considered 'smaller' - I've seen mentioned ours a little bit lighter? - says more about the rest if anything imo. It's entirely up to voters but it seems booking a Movement-type of Other has little to no effect, booking 5-6 #4's seems to have little to no effect on voting.. Some consider it even better it even better that way. I mean.
Post by 3post1jack1 on Sept 7, 2020 14:50:27 GMT -5
Also just now realizing all of my three-question-marks-in-a-row are showing up as that face. Supposed to indicate I don't know what to see in that slot.
Post by MrPricklePants on Sept 7, 2020 20:15:52 GMT -5
Updated Reviews
sang / bandeto 8.1 B-
Run the Jewels -> Rage is great. Both Rage and Metallica is too much. Lizzo will sell tickets, but she’s just another top 40 Bruno Mars type act in my eyes quality-wise and she will attract the casual “hey i know that song from the radio” crowd. Rant over. Weezer is always fun at festivals. Khruangbin is a hot pick and sure to bring the vibes. Served with a side of Björk.
King T / JamesTheRam 8.1 B-
This could be the most over budget lineup, but damn if it doesn’t look good. Ariana Grande and Travis Scott are going to sell well, but I’d rather not have Bonnaroo look like B96 summer bash.
DRAGON ENERGY / whereispassionpit 7.5 C
The top 3 is pretty damn realistic and fits Bonnaroo to a T. Not too mention, it’s pretty decent. Is it me or is this undercard extremely thin. Did all of the budget go to the top 3? Did someone drop out?
fearandparanoia / problem dog / emoney 6.2 D-
Not much here for me besides The Cure and IDLES. Two big legacy acts and then Cardi B is not ideal. I don’t like Cardi B and that’s because I’m racist.
Chandler Bing / Rummy 8.8 B+
This one is the best by fortune of having the first pick in the draft and not fucking it up. Radiohead fulfills both realism and quality. The War On Drugs is not a viable #3 if we’re speaking about realism. You literally have The Raconteurs and Sufjan Stevens sitting right there. If anything, this is under budget.
Delicious Meatball Sub / Larry Farnsworth 8.1 B-
Taylor Swift would be the biggest name Bonnaroo could get and it’s prime time for her. The rest of the lineup looks kinda haphazard but it has some good names.
Cap’n Jim / Cap’n Mac 8.2 B-
The main thing that’s unrealistic about this one is that both Florence + the Machine and arguably Tyler, the Creator should not be at #2. It’s very top heavy. That said, the quality is mostly there. I’d sell my soul to have Gorillaz and Thom Yorke on the same lineup. Jaz / Fred 8.7 B+
This combo of headliners really works. Some really good indie names on here. Harry Styles is an ace pick. Beach House should be on the lineup every year and I would see them every time. FKA Twigs is amazing, but is she a #2? 21 Savage is one of the worst shows I’ve ever seen. Childish Gambino just recently headlined but i don’t know why that would be an issue in a fantasy draft.
I respect how much thought you all put into your Thursdays but I'm only going to embarrass myself trying to distinguish between them, so I'm doing Friday-Sunday schedules here:
Sangdeto:
Haynes > De La > Rateliff > 2 Chainz > Hot Since 82 > Black Coffee > Primus > Rage > SBTRKT > Dynohunter
Mdou Moctar > Hiatus Kaiyote > Kiwanuka > Femi > The Highwomen > > Lana Del Rey > New Order > Sir Paul
These schedules are both sick. I haven't looked at a bunch of others, but these will be hard to top. Sangdeto has a little less downtime for me, though.
Saturday: Bad Gyal > DJ Python > Kool and the Gang > Caroline Polachek > Tyler Childers > Toro y Moi > ELO > Eric Andre > MCR > Soulwax > Cirez D > Floating Points/Boys Noize
Sunday: Ja and Ashanti > Esperanza Spalding > Flight of the Conchords > Turkuaz RIL > Dead and Co
Bulls
Friday: Boris > IDLES > Code Orange, I guess (band that does the walk-out music for the Fiend, a former avatar of mine) > Battles > Joan Jett > Carly Rae Jepsen > TNGHT > Iggy Pop > Cardi > Judas Priest > Lane 8/moe
Saturday: Angelique Kidjo > Goldblum > Wolf Parade > Gang of Youths > Trina > Django Django/Margo Price > Christine and the Queens > Leon Bridges/Maribou State > The Rapture > Stones > Jamie xx > DJ Koze
Sunday: Robert Earl Keen > Ride > > The Breeders > Gillian Welch > Jonsi > Sia > Interpol > The Cure
I think I could catch more sets with the Bulls' schedule, but I like DE/WIPP's headliners and subs more. Rihanna/MCR/Dead and Co feels really Bonnaroo to me, and ELO is an awesome sub. Spiritualized, Flight, and that Saturday late night are sick. Bulls have a lot of stuff like that too, with Priest, Iggy, Boris, Jamie, Koze, Interpol, Rapture.. Shit, idk. Bulls have the better undercard. This is pretty close to a toss-up. Rihanna/MCR/Dead ticks all the boxes to me, though. I don't think Cardi is an especially good choice of headliner and I don't think Sturgill is worthy of a subheadlining spot (I know he has been before but I think it was a mistake and he was one of the least-added top liners on the app. I'm not sure about Fleet Foxes on the DE/WIPP lineup either, fwiw). If this ends up being a tie, I might be swayed to change my vote to break the tie.
I'm not commenting on Thursdays in my votes for the most part because I don't know most of the artists, but Makaya McCraven and Chris Forsyth are two of my favorite musicians currently and it's badass that they have them closing tents on Thursday. Kinda sucks that they overlap, but I could catch at least an hour of each and that would probably be the best two hours of music I've ever heard on a Roo Thursday.
Friday: Murphy DJ > Japanese House > Moroder > Phoebe Bridgers > Eric Prydz > Maiden > Missy/Refused > a little HudMo > Sigur Ros
Saturday: Sigrid > Leon Vynehall > > Simian Mobile Disco/Annie Mac > Hot Chip > Taylor Swift > TV on the Radio > 2manydjs > Nina Kraviz
Sunday: Hagar > Amen Dunes > Wooden Shjips > Maya Jane Coles > BROCKHAMPTON > Dinosaur Jr. > Kylie Minogue/Phish pit line > Phish
These are probably my two least favorite lineups in the elite eight, for wildly different reasons. Bingarumroo is pretty thin on Friday for me. Before the headliner, the only thing I'd be super duper excited for would be Angel Olsen and to a lesser extent Destroyer. The late night that day is cool, though. Saturday has more going on during the day and obviously has Radiohead, so that's good. Then LN Godspeed into BICEP crushes. Sunday is the most full slate.
Frazzledrip's schedule has way more for me, especially during the day, but strikes me as especially unrealistic, even compared to the other lineups that are also pretty unrealistic. My schedule is littered with stuff that I don't think Roo could or would book. I don't think Taylor Swift is playing Roo, I have doubts about Maiden, and the electronic music doesn't really fit, like 2manydjs, Murphy, Nina, Vynehall, stuff like that. But I think basically everyone is guilty of stuff like this on some level, so it's not a major part of my thinking. For this matchup, the blandness of Friday is hard to overcome for Bingarum, but I would give it to them based on realism if the lineups were a little closer on quality.
Captains
Friday: Sleigh Bells > Santigold > Zola Jesus > Rodrigo y Gabriela > PJ Harvey > Tyler, the Creator > Danny Elfman > Tool > Kraftwerk > Converge
Saturday: Built to Spill > Titus Andronicus > of Montreal > Patti Smith > Television > /Florence > Lil Wayne > Gorillaz > Pond > /Jamiroquai > JRAD/Honey Dijon
Friday: Calypso Rose > Tanya Tagaq/Lucius > Cherub > TLC > Rusko/Belle and Sebastian/Luda (ow) > Devendra Banhart/Jesus and Mary Chain > Bino > King Gizz > /STS9
Saturday: Shame > Vance Joy > Tune-yards > MO > London Grammar > Bastille > BSS > FKA Twigs > Beach House > Gaga > Girl Talk > Flying Lotus
Sunday: Johnny Marr > EOB > Anoushka Shankar > Metro Boomin > The xx > Nick Mason > Arcade Fire
Maddog and I have pretty similar tastes in music, turns out. I do think the Captains' lineup seems pretty pricey, and I liked it better before the PJ pick, but I think it's strong top-to-bottom, and I don't think that the lineup is good *because* it is expensive or because they drafted PJ. I think there's some wiggle room with Florence and Tyler as headliners vs subs, but the two together, both as subs, does look a little off. And then Lionel Richie sixth probably isn't cheap. I've been in that situation, though, and I do this in free agency sometimes, most likely to my detriment, but you're just sitting there looking at something that should have been drafted by now and no one's taking it and you're just like "fuck it, guess it's gonna be me" and you take it. All six of the Captains' top six should have been drafted in this game, and maybe the thing stopping that from happening would be every other team not passing on it? Other than that issue I have with it, I think the lineup and schedule are really really good. I don't really like Pearl Jam personally but I'd still hang out for their Sunday set. I wouldn't go home early or anything.
Jed's Friday is a little thin early for me, and I'm not really a big fan of Styles, Rogers, or Gambino. I'd check them all out, and I think I'd have a great time at Gambino's show, but I'm not a big fan. The Friday late night is really good. I wish some of this stuff was on the Saturday LN. Like, I'd swap out TAB and STS9. I would want to catch Gizz and Tribe both and I think a lot of others would, too. Could be wrong. Also would love to see Thundercat, maybe if he were ahead of FlyLo in a tent. Kraftwerk/JRAD/Jamiroquai is great but Gizz/Fly Lo is almost as good and Girl Talk can put on a really fun show. This lineup is better with genre diversity overall, while Captains' is pretty rock-oriented. This lineup also only has slightly less stuff that I would draft, like BSS, Mason, the D, London Grammar, Shankar, EOB, etc. All of these matchups have been really close in some way like that.
Realism I think both undercards are pretty realistic and feel very "Bonnaroo". But Sang & Deto's headliners just feel like they could actually all happen in the same year. Whereas I'm not sure Bonnaroo could afford or would book Paul and Ariana in the same year.
Quality Again, both solid lineups and there's a lot I really like in both, but for my personal tastes. I think there may be a bit more for me in Sangdeto's lineup tho. Tranter and James' top lines excite me more, but the deeper I go, Sang & Deto's lineup just has more for me overall.
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Dragonpit vs Paranoia Problems & Money
Realism Paranoia Problems & Money's headliners are awesome for me and feel pretty realistic. Rihanna and Dead and Co feel possible, but I still don't get the MCR pick.
Quality Paranoia Problems & Money's top 2 lines is REALLY strong for me, but then there's a pretty steep drop and then there's only a few to a handful of names peppered throughout each day. I love Dragonpit's Friday tho. It's prob my favourite day of the draft. But I don't think one day is enough to make up for two weaker days. So I'm going FP/PD/EM.
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Rummaging for Chandlers vs Frazzledrip
Realism Both are pretty realistic. I think the edge goes to bing/rummy tho bc I don't think that Roo could book taylor, and I don't think they'd book iron maiden as a headliner, and they def wouldn't do both in the same year. But FD have little very "Roo" bookings throughout that up the realism factor a lot imo. With that being said, RC feels like a Roo that could be booked next year. It's got a lot of very modern stuff in there, but I think it's lacking that "Roo" factor that FD really nailed. It's like a battle of a really good 2010's era Bonnaroo vs a really good 2020's era Bonnaroo. Very interesting match up.
Quality Like I just said, these feel like really good lineups from different eras of Roo. Overall, I think there's more in RC's lineup for me overall, even tho I wish there was a little more "wow" factor in the bookings (ie. Missy, Busta, Kylie from FD's lineup). Which I guess in some ways is very on-brand for Roo these days.
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Capn's vs Jaz Flinstone
Realism Both of these are pretty realistic. I think that Jaz and Fred is definitely more realistic, but if you take out Kraftwerk and Danny Elfman, they're neck in neck. I also love that both of these lineups have the throwback, semi-ironic but you'd totally be there type bookings I mentioned before (Wayne, TLC, Luda). I always get really excited about those types of shows bc they're the kind of thing I would be all about, but probably wouldn't buy a ticket to see if they came to some random venue in my city.
Quality It's been beat to death, but I don't love the headliners on Jaz/Fred's lineup, but more importantly for me is that I'm not a huge fan of your subs either. Out of the top line of each day, Gaga, Harry and The xx are the only ones who really catch my attention. Getting down into your undercard redeems this a bit with some great bookings, but if I were buying a ticket to the festival it'd be hard to justify $400 on a bunch of acts I could see for a lot cheaper (esp when I've already seen Gaga and The xx and would've seen Harry on this tour in November... as in they're all pretty easy to see. Except maybe Gaga, which is why she's such a great pick.). I also think that the Capn's lineup was better before they took PJ, but I'm also just not a big PJ fan so it didn't move the needle at all for me. But there's a lot on this lineup I haven't seen that would get me excited. I think i'd have to think pretty hard if I'd spend $400 on this festival, but I think in the end there's enough bigger names I haven't seen to justify it for me. But it wouldn't be a no-thought buy.
I don't think Sturgill is worthy of a subheadlining spot (I know he has been before but I think it was a mistake and he was one of the least-added top liners on the app.
What were we gonna do, demote him? That'dd be p rude to Sturgill
