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if anything I'd argue that, at least from a safety perspective, the bigger corporate ones are probably better. the institutional ones are pretty much run like well oiled machines, they have this kind of stuff down to a science and you're less likely to see this stuff happen at Coachella, Bonnaroo, etc.
System of a down at riot fest confirms this. Dumbasses had the barriers that are used for queuing used for crowd control around the sound booth. We were seconds away from hundreds of people falling over but serj stopped the show bc they saw someone pass out.
Riot fest unironically sucks. Lineups are great tho
Post by Fozzie Bear on Nov 10, 2021 11:38:01 GMT -5
Completely anecdotal, but I recently saw 100 gecs among a crowd of mostly younger kids/teens and some older adults. Two different people nearly toppled me over in the back of the crowd with ample space. Those people? Grown ass men.
In my 15 years of going to big shows like this, I’ve noticed one thing that definitely hasn’t changed. The closer you are to the stage, the more danger you put yourself in. I can’t imagine, as a new parent, taking a 9-year-old to one of these things and getting anywhere near the stage. Even as an adult, the older I get, the less willing I am to put myself in those kind of situations.
Looking back, how did Woodstock 99 not end up with people being crushed? There were 250K there, no barricades, and a toxic atmosphere.
Honestly, my understanding is that barricades contribute to crowd crush, at least when placed improperly
While Woodstock was violent, there was never any sort of "rush" of which I'm aware.
You're right, I can't remember seeing a rush. There was also a large pit formed in front of the stage for the more "aggressive" acts which probably acted like a kind of moat.
Honestly, my understanding is that barricades contribute to crowd crush, at least when placed improperly
While Woodstock was violent, there was never any sort of "rush" of which I'm aware.
You're right, I can't remember seeing a rush. There was also a large pit formed in front of the stage for the more "aggressive" acts which probably acted like a kind of moat.
also, as we all know, concertgoers in the 90s were just naturally better and more respectful of others than these awful millenials and zoomers
You're right, I can't remember seeing a rush. There was also a large pit formed in front of the stage for the more "aggressive" acts which probably acted like a kind of moat.
also, as we all know, concertgoers in the 90s were just naturally better and more respectful of others than these awful millenials and zoomers
Honestly, my understanding is that barricades contribute to crowd crush, at least when placed improperly
While Woodstock was violent, there was never any sort of "rush" of which I'm aware.
You're right, I can't remember seeing a rush. There was also a large pit formed in front of the stage for the more "aggressive" acts which probably acted like a kind of moat.
Just looking at the Limp Bizkit footage and its a mix of pits, crowd surfing, some pushing/swaying but not the extreme total surge/crush thing. Up front it looks bad likely due to surfers getting pulled and people getting moved. Theres lots of similar ones in the 90's like that Oasis one or some Glastonbury footage pre front barrier that looks dangerous but somehow nobody topples over which is a miracle.
Random one that I saw which is really bad, especially for indoors was Radiohead in Japan. Was watching Meeting People is Easy and theres one clip of the total surge thing and its intense. Go to 1:06:30
In my 15 years of going to big shows like this, I’ve noticed one thing that definitely hasn’t changed. The closer you are to the stage, the more danger you put yourself in. I can’t imagine, as a new parent, taking a 9-year-old to one of these things and getting anywhere near the stage. Even as an adult, the older I get, the less willing I am to put myself in those kind of situations.
But maybe I’m just washed now. 🤷🏻♂️
This is definitely something thats been on my mind. The 9 year old at a Travis Scott show, another 10 year old in the ICU, two of the fatalities being 14 and 16, on top of all the other failures that is partially a failure of parenting. I like Travis Scott songs! But jesus, I wouldn't take my 9 year old to a show, much less anywhere near the pit. That part blows my mind.
At the Skrillex Superjam in 2014, there was a crowd surge when Asap Ferg got on stage, complete loss of control of where we were standing. Legs and feet about a foot ahead of our bodies. It was scary for a few seconds, but it was a much smaller crowd and people righted themselves. We left the front and regrouped outside the tent before eventually bailing, just because we were shaken by the surge. I can't imagine the panic that those people went through. It's really a living nightmare.
This and Aaron Rodgers being anti-vax have really bummed out my week.
In my 15 years of going to big shows like this, I’ve noticed one thing that definitely hasn’t changed. The closer you are to the stage, the more danger you put yourself in. I can’t imagine, as a new parent, taking a 9-year-old to one of these things and getting anywhere near the stage. Even as an adult, the older I get, the less willing I am to put myself in those kind of situations.
But maybe I’m just washed now. 🤷🏻♂️
This is definitely something thats been on my mind. The 9 year old at a Travis Scott show, another 10 year old in the ICU, two of the fatalities being 14 and 16, on top of all the other failures that is partially a failure of parenting. I like Travis Scott songs! But jesus, I wouldn't take my 9 year old to a show, much less anywhere near the pit. That part blows my mind.
I get this in part. But then, as a parent, you assume that you could keep a 9 or 10 year old safe (I assume they were accompanied by a guardian.) Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the crowd surge wasn't strictly confined to the pit, was it?
So I’ve been oddly obsessed with this since I heard what happened. I think the reason I’m so intrigued (and I’m sure you guys can relate) is because I’ve been in crowds like this. I’ve been in crowds where I have no control over my movements and my feet aren’t on the ground, can’t catch my breath, stuck with my arm in the air Bc I can’t get it back down… but I’ve never been in a situation where people were trampled or had serious injuries, let alone died. Finding the point or the reason it turns into a deadly situation has become a def point of fascination for me.
I’ve seen everything from crowd surge, to bad layouts, and poorly placed barricades as the reason for it. And i can’t believe they left the show continue for 40 mins after they knew what was happening. But one thing that stands out to me are the reports of people who had fallen and other people just actively ignored them and stepped over them and kept raging. Like, the total lack of concert etiquette and watching out for those around you just astounds me. And I’m not talking about people on the other side who didn’t know what was happening. I’m talking about people who saw someone go down and STEPPED OVER OR ON THEM to move up a spot.
Anyways. There’s so much on IG & TikTok to consume on this. So many first hand accounts and they all sound traumatizing. Seannafaith on IG has been compiling stuff into a highlight on her page. She’s the girl in the video yelling at the cameraman for help. I got into a deep hole of profile hopping last night reading all the of stories.
Very very sad. Wonder if Travis will recover from this. I’ve seen he pulled out of his Vegas show but unknown if it was really his choice or not.
It fascinates me for the same reason. I've been in crowds just like you described, literally off my feet and moving with the crowd etc. I never feared for my safety and generally had lots of fun, but I dunno if I'll be so keen to get into crowds like that again. It's chilling, and I can't help but wonder if the people involved had any sort of idea what sort of danger they were in before it was too late.
I think the first un supervised show I went to was a club show when I was like 14? but we went in a group of kids, I think there's probably some level of like well there's enough of them if something happens they can look out for each other, but in those kinds of crowds it's easy to lose each other fast
This is definitely something thats been on my mind. The 9 year old at a Travis Scott show, another 10 year old in the ICU, two of the fatalities being 14 and 16, on top of all the other failures that is partially a failure of parenting. I like Travis Scott songs! But jesus, I wouldn't take my 9 year old to a show, much less anywhere near the pit. That part blows my mind.
I get this in part. But then, as a parent, you assume that you could keep a 9 or 10 year old safe (I assume they were accompanied by a guardian.) Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the crowd surge wasn't strictly confined to the pit, was it?
9 year olds dad had him on his shoulders to keep him out of the fray and they both got knocked over and trampled.
My understanding is that the worst of it was actually in the middle. Not trying to judge these parents too hard because it’s really not that unreasonable to think “as long as we don’t get too close to the front we’ll be fine”
The middle thing makes a lot of sense because of everyone trying to get from SZA over to the main stage was a whole other surge in itself. The parents with kids might have felt comfortable where they were because they didnt expect it literally coming from behind them.
I've been beating the drum about the increasing narcissism and complete disregard for everyone else around them from increasingly younger festival crowds for years, now, and every time I do, there's a whole bunch of "KIDS WILL BE KIDS LOOK AT THIS OLD MAN YELLING AT CLOUD." We had a mini-riot after they called off Sunday of Governors Ball in 2019, leading to a bunch of navel-gazing about how the festival needed to be 18+ moving forward that was promptly forgotten during the pandemic, but it's not hard, in my opinion, to draw a line from that event to this. I saw assholes on reddit posting in the immediate aftermath of this thing about how, where they were in the crowd, they didn't notice any of the bad stuff going on, and also, they got great footage of the show, so it's a win.
I dunno, man. Kids are going to wild out at shows, and they should, but there's a way to do it without it resulting in injury, damage, or death, and we seem to have lost the plot on that, to a degree.
something like this literally happens once a generation - see, e.g., Pearl Jam/Roskilde in 2000, the Who in Cinci in 1979, etc. trying to use it to support your weird and ongoing "young people shouldn't get to enjoy concerts" angle is gross and stupid.
blaming the crowd in any way is insane to me. out of all the culpable parties, the crowd is at the very bottom of the list. these people didn't die because a bunch of zoomers were being jerks, they died because of shitty event planning, bad venue design, lack of adequate security, and (to some extent) the performer who sought to create that frenzied atmosphere.
As someone who likes Travis and has been in the pit for three travis shows, my personal belief is that 50k people who are specifically coming, if not solely to see Travis but very close to it, is simply too many people. Maybe someone who knows this better can correct me but I dont really know how much event planning, venue design or security could overcome the sheer mass of people who wanted to be close/in the pit for Travis
As a parent that brought her child to LOTS of festivals and shows when he was very young, I have thought about that 9 and 10 year old a lot. We were lucky and never had issues, but there have been times as an adult at a show, where I thought I was in the back and then all the sudden in the thick of it all. I can't imagine being in that situation with a child. Fucking terrifying.
You're right, I can't remember seeing a rush. There was also a large pit formed in front of the stage for the more "aggressive" acts which probably acted like a kind of moat.
also, as we all know, concertgoers in the 90s were just naturally better and more respectful of others than these awful millenials and zoomers
Perhaps. Then again, I haven’t heard any reports of rape or sexual assault at Astroworld unlike Woodstock 99.
I get this in part. But then, as a parent, you assume that you could keep a 9 or 10 year old safe (I assume they were accompanied by a guardian.) Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the crowd surge wasn't strictly confined to the pit, was it?
9 year olds dad had him on his shoulders to keep him out of the fray and they both got knocked over and trampled.
My understanding is that the worst of it was actually in the middle. Not trying to judge these parents too hard because it’s really not that unreasonable to think “as long as we don’t get too close to the front we’ll be fine”
That is absolutely heartbreaking. I can't imagine what that father and family are going through right now.
Post by WhyTheLongFace on Nov 10, 2021 14:13:44 GMT -5
Some person fell at Yves Tumor the other night and I realized how easy it is to stomp on someone. I’m very aware so I saw him immediately but if I was on drugs I wouldn’t have. Now mix that with hundreds of people in an open field pushing me from behind.
Yeah it’s hard to look at this as an isolated incident. It’s just the worst case scenario but I see this effecting festival morale for awhile.
Post by abefroman1 on Nov 10, 2021 14:50:46 GMT -5
I do wonder if an artist having their own festival encourages the hardest of hardcore fans to come out and the intensity of the crowd to be extra high. Pair that with an artist that encourages chaos at their shows, eventually something may give.
I've written down a piece over the weekend with some of my thoughts on the matter. Perhaps it's a little bit of a ramble mixed with some facts, but my thoughts are still everywhere and buzzing from what happend.. Anyways.
11/19: Caribou 11/22: Ranger Trucco 11/29: Armand Van Helden* 1/16: L'Impératrice 1/30: Jamie xx 2/1: DJ Seinfeld 2/7: Mild Minds* 3/1: Father John Misty* 3/19: Confidence Man 3/23: DARKSIDE 5/8: Rüfüs Du Sol
* = Still need to buy tix
3post1jack1
Which Ditch Bridge Troll Wannabe God-King of the Cone
Houston PD is having a press conference right now.
watching now, he confirmed the security guard getting pricked in the neck with a needle was bullshit. they tracked the security guard down, he says he was struck and knocked out (which if true is bad enough) but he wasn't injected with anything.
I get this in part. But then, as a parent, you assume that you could keep a 9 or 10 year old safe (I assume they were accompanied by a guardian.) Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the crowd surge wasn't strictly confined to the pit, was it?
9 year olds dad had him on his shoulders to keep him out of the fray and they both got knocked over and trampled.
My understanding is that the worst of it was actually in the middle. Not trying to judge these parents too hard because it’s really not that unreasonable to think “as long as we don’t get too close to the front we’ll be fine”
jesus that’s the worst part of this whole thing I’ve read
Post by Jake Jortles on Nov 10, 2021 16:44:55 GMT -5
Was anyone here in the left side pit line for Kanye at Roo '14? My group and I waited in that line for quite some time. When they opened the pit, there was a contextually massive surge from indefensible assholes that were either never waiting in the line or were way back. That caused people that were doing the right thing and waiting forever to try to make damn sure they got their spot in the pit so they pushed forward. My youngest brother actually got pressed up against a barricade and couldn't move for a while and was not in a great spot. He may have been the only person that was in any sort of danger during that entire mini event. No idea. If he would have somehow died there, I probably would have blamed Bonnaroo a lot... but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a significant amount of blame belonging to the feral animals that just blasted their way forward.
That story is such a small small thing. But I feel like that moment of excitement and anticipation causing young rowdy guys to break the rules to prioritize their show positioning isn't a brand new thing.
That was for a Kanye headlining show at Bonnaroo... which is a pretty big show and Kanye had a bit of a cult following at the time, but this Travis incident seems like it had so much going for it to be the Bonnaroo 2014 left side pit line multiplied by a million.
1. Travis Scott has that cult following 2. He glorifies extreme rowdiness (which is fine) 3. He glorifies rule breaking at shows 4. Crowd is young 5. Year of bottled up energy from covid 6. Yes Travis has played two other shows semi recently, but this was the Astroworld headlining set after 1.5 years of bogus covid life. The big return. 7. No Bonnaroo Pit system
Who would you say has been the most recent artist / band with a crowd as large, youthful and rowdy as Travis' crowds? I'm trying to think but I feel like you may have to go back 15-20 years. People aren't regularly in crowds this extreme and haven't been in a long time. And it does suck that Travis is the leader of this crowds and seems to have so little care for safety.
I don't have any major conclusions to draw just thinking and typing.
