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Was anyone here in the left side pit line for Kanye at Roo '14? My group and I waited in that line for quite some time. When they opened the pit, there was a contextually massive surge from indefensible assholes that were either never waiting in the line or were way back. That caused people that were doing the right thing and waiting forever to try to make damn sure they got their spot in the pit so they pushed forward. My youngest brother actually got pressed up against a barricade and couldn't move for a while and was not in a great spot. He may have been the only person that was in any sort of danger during that entire mini event. No idea. If he would have somehow died there, I probably would have blamed Bonnaroo a lot... but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a significant amount of blame belonging to the feral animals that just blasted their way forward.
That story is such a small small thing. But I feel like that moment of excitement and anticipation causing young rowdy guys to break the rules to prioritize their show positioning isn't a brand new thing.
That was for a Kanye headlining show at Bonnaroo... which is a pretty big show and Kanye had a bit of a cult following at the time, but this Travis incident seems like it had so much going for it to be the Bonnaroo 2014 left side pit line multiplied by a million.
1. Travis Scott has that cult following 2. He glorifies extreme rowdiness (which is fine) 3. He glorifies rule breaking at shows 4. Crowd is young 5. Year of bottled up energy from covid 6. Yes Travis has played two other shows semi recently, but this was the Astroworld headlining set after 1.5 years of bogus covid life. The big return. 7. No Bonnaroo Pit system
Who would you say has been the most recent artist / band with a crowd as large, youthful and rowdy as Travis' crowds? I'm trying to think but I feel like you may have to go back 15-20 years. People aren't regularly in crowds this extreme and haven't been in a long time. And it does suck that Travis is the leader of this crowds and seems to have so little care for safety.
I don't have any major conclusions to draw just thinking and typing.
pretty much in complete agreement here. honestly that whole situation with Carti and Miley Cyrus at Lolla should have raised more red flags than it did at the time.
Don’t make this solely an ageism argument. I’ve been going to concerts longer than most of you have been alive. Have the dynamics changed? Yes. Is it all on the concertgoer? No. I am sure this could and did happen years ago. The difference is we did not have 24 hour news and the internet to spread misinformation.
I was lucky to miss most of the chaos, but I do distinctly remember someone’s foot in the middle of my back at a NIN show. That’s when I knew it was time to move back.
Incivility and entitlement are a society issue. Not an age issue. You have no further to look than January 6th. Most of those goons were middle age or much older.
I really feel bad for having kicked off this whole discussion.
The lesson, as it is with most things, is that I'm an idiot and should generally keep my damn idiot mouth shut. Apologies to all involved.
Please don't apologize, your insights are valuable and spot-on in terms of etiquette changes across various demographics. Screw all the people here who cannot handle others' opinions and immediately resort to kneejerk bullshit.
Was anyone here in the left side pit line for Kanye at Roo '14? My group and I waited in that line for quite some time. When they opened the pit, there was a contextually massive surge from indefensible assholes that were either never waiting in the line or were way back. That caused people that were doing the right thing and waiting forever to try to make damn sure they got their spot in the pit so they pushed forward. My youngest brother actually got pressed up against a barricade and couldn't move for a while and was not in a great spot. He may have been the only person that was in any sort of danger during that entire mini event. No idea. If he would have somehow died there, I probably would have blamed Bonnaroo a lot... but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a significant amount of blame belonging to the feral animals that just blasted their way forward.
That story is such a small small thing. But I feel like that moment of excitement and anticipation causing young rowdy guys to break the rules to prioritize their show positioning isn't a brand new thing.
That was for a Kanye headlining show at Bonnaroo... which is a pretty big show and Kanye had a bit of a cult following at the time, but this Travis incident seems like it had so much going for it to be the Bonnaroo 2014 left side pit line multiplied by a million.
1. Travis Scott has that cult following 2. He glorifies extreme rowdiness (which is fine) 3. He glorifies rule breaking at shows 4. Crowd is young 5. Year of bottled up energy from covid 6. Yes Travis has played two other shows semi recently, but this was the Astroworld headlining set after 1.5 years of bogus covid life. The big return. 7. No Bonnaroo Pit system
Who would you say has been the most recent artist / band with a crowd as large, youthful and rowdy as Travis' crowds? I'm trying to think but I feel like you may have to go back 15-20 years. People aren't regularly in crowds this extreme and haven't been in a long time. And it does suck that Travis is the leader of this crowds and seems to have so little care for safety.
I don't have any major conclusions to draw just thinking and typing.
I was there. The entitled air of people who feel that there's absolutely nothing wrong with cutting into pit lines, rushing in, etc. at Bonnaroo has long been a frustrator for me. I've called people out on it and had them literally just shrug and say that they didn't care. And what the fuck can you do about it as an attendee? There is nobody policing it and no recourse if someone just says 'fuck society' and does what they want.
I've mentioned it on past surveys (it happened in 2010 for sure and I feel like a different year as well) but until something happens I don't expect festival organizers to do anything about it.
Was anyone here in the left side pit line for Kanye at Roo '14? My group and I waited in that line for quite some time. When they opened the pit, there was a contextually massive surge from indefensible assholes that were either never waiting in the line or were way back. That caused people that were doing the right thing and waiting forever to try to make damn sure they got their spot in the pit so they pushed forward. My youngest brother actually got pressed up against a barricade and couldn't move for a while and was not in a great spot. He may have been the only person that was in any sort of danger during that entire mini event. No idea. If he would have somehow died there, I probably would have blamed Bonnaroo a lot... but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a significant amount of blame belonging to the feral animals that just blasted their way forward.
That story is such a small small thing. But I feel like that moment of excitement and anticipation causing young rowdy guys to break the rules to prioritize their show positioning isn't a brand new thing.
That was for a Kanye headlining show at Bonnaroo... which is a pretty big show and Kanye had a bit of a cult following at the time, but this Travis incident seems like it had so much going for it to be the Bonnaroo 2014 left side pit line multiplied by a million.
1. Travis Scott has that cult following 2. He glorifies extreme rowdiness (which is fine) 3. He glorifies rule breaking at shows 4. Crowd is young 5. Year of bottled up energy from covid 6. Yes Travis has played two other shows semi recently, but this was the Astroworld headlining set after 1.5 years of bogus covid life. The big return. 7. No Bonnaroo Pit system
Who would you say has been the most recent artist / band with a crowd as large, youthful and rowdy as Travis' crowds? I'm trying to think but I feel like you may have to go back 15-20 years. People aren't regularly in crowds this extreme and haven't been in a long time. And it does suck that Travis is the leader of this crowds and seems to have so little care for safety.
I don't have any major conclusions to draw just thinking and typing.
I was there. The entitled air of people who feel that there's absolutely nothing wrong with cutting into pit lines, rushing in, etc. at Bonnaroo has long been a frustrator for me. I've called people out on it and had them literally just shrug and say that they didn't care. And what the fuck can you do about it as an attendee? There is nobody policing it and no recourse if someone just says 'fuck society' and does what they want.
I've mentioned it on past surveys (it happened in 2010 for sure and I feel like a different year as well) but until something happens I don't expect festival organizers to do anything about it.
One solution is to just stop attending and financially supporting the type of festivals that have a larger chance of attracting this type of crowd. Not a fun thing to think about, but at the end of the day we gotta put our money where our mouth is.
I was there. The entitled air of people who feel that there's absolutely nothing wrong with cutting into pit lines, rushing in, etc. at Bonnaroo has long been a frustrator for me. I've called people out on it and had them literally just shrug and say that they didn't care. And what the fuck can you do about it as an attendee? There is nobody policing it and no recourse if someone just says 'fuck society' and does what they want.
I've mentioned it on past surveys (it happened in 2010 for sure and I feel like a different year as well) but until something happens I don't expect festival organizers to do anything about it.
One solution is to just stop attending and financially supporting the type of festivals that have a larger chance of attracting this type of crowd. Not a fun thing to think about, but at the end of the day we gotta put our money where our mouth is.
1. Travis Scott has that cult following 2. He glorifies extreme rowdiness (which is fine) 3. He glorifies rule breaking at shows 4. Crowd is young 5. Year of bottled up energy from covid 6. Yes Travis has played two other shows semi recently, but this was the Astroworld headlining set after 1.5 years of bogus covid life. The big return. 7. No Bonnaroo Pit system
One solution is to just stop attending and financially supporting the type of festivals that have a larger chance of attracting this type of crowd. Not a fun thing to think about, but at the end of the day we gotta put our money where our mouth is.
This solution sucks balls lmao
At some point the cons just outweigh the pros. I personally don't even consider GovBall and Lolla as options anymore based on all the awful crowd reports.
Also, people can still attend festivals elsewhere in the world that have better vibes and etiquette. Obviously more expensive and time consuming, but totally worth considering.
Was anyone here in the left side pit line for Kanye at Roo '14? My group and I waited in that line for quite some time. When they opened the pit, there was a contextually massive surge from indefensible assholes that were either never waiting in the line or were way back. That caused people that were doing the right thing and waiting forever to try to make damn sure they got their spot in the pit so they pushed forward. My youngest brother actually got pressed up against a barricade and couldn't move for a while and was not in a great spot. He may have been the only person that was in any sort of danger during that entire mini event. No idea. If he would have somehow died there, I probably would have blamed Bonnaroo a lot... but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a significant amount of blame belonging to the feral animals that just blasted their way forward.
That story is such a small small thing. But I feel like that moment of excitement and anticipation causing young rowdy guys to break the rules to prioritize their show positioning isn't a brand new thing.
That was for a Kanye headlining show at Bonnaroo... which is a pretty big show and Kanye had a bit of a cult following at the time, but this Travis incident seems like it had so much going for it to be the Bonnaroo 2014 left side pit line multiplied by a million.
1. Travis Scott has that cult following 2. He glorifies extreme rowdiness (which is fine) 3. He glorifies rule breaking at shows 4. Crowd is young 5. Year of bottled up energy from covid 6. Yes Travis has played two other shows semi recently, but this was the Astroworld headlining set after 1.5 years of bogus covid life. The big return. 7. No Bonnaroo Pit system
Who would you say has been the most recent artist / band with a crowd as large, youthful and rowdy as Travis' crowds? I'm trying to think but I feel like you may have to go back 15-20 years. People aren't regularly in crowds this extreme and haven't been in a long time. And it does suck that Travis is the leader of this crowds and seems to have so little care for safety.
I don't have any major conclusions to draw just thinking and typing.
Tyler The Creator has an audience right in that zone. He also has his own festival. There have been moments of chaos at Tyler and Odd Future performances back in the day. Can we say that he created a culture similar to Travis? Sure. Does it have some extremes? Yeah. Did it ever reach this point? Not really.
2013 Camp Flog Gnaw had Kanye as the secret guest and the second he showed up people went crazy. I was on the side of the crowd and still got caught up in the sway of it. That iteration was still scaled down in comparison to the current version at Dodger Stadium but there was still that push and burst happening even with 10,000 people. People settled down and things kept going. Nobody was killing themselves over Frank Ocean either who closed out the evening.
1. Travis Scott has that cult following 2. He glorifies extreme rowdiness (which is fine) 3. He glorifies rule breaking at shows 4. Crowd is young 5. Year of bottled up energy from covid 6. Yes Travis has played two other shows semi recently, but this was the Astroworld headlining set after 1.5 years of bogus covid life. The big return. 7. No Bonnaroo Pit system
8. Hometown show
Also, the way Travis rolls out the line up (2 weeks before the show) generates more consistent hype leading to the event. Instead of waiting the normal 3 months before a fest, fans just have to wait 2 weeks.
Was anyone here in the left side pit line for Kanye at Roo '14? My group and I waited in that line for quite some time. When they opened the pit, there was a contextually massive surge from indefensible assholes that were either never waiting in the line or were way back. That caused people that were doing the right thing and waiting forever to try to make damn sure they got their spot in the pit so they pushed forward. My youngest brother actually got pressed up against a barricade and couldn't move for a while and was not in a great spot. He may have been the only person that was in any sort of danger during that entire mini event. No idea. If he would have somehow died there, I probably would have blamed Bonnaroo a lot... but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a significant amount of blame belonging to the feral animals that just blasted their way forward.
That story is such a small small thing. But I feel like that moment of excitement and anticipation causing young rowdy guys to break the rules to prioritize their show positioning isn't a brand new thing.
That was for a Kanye headlining show at Bonnaroo... which is a pretty big show and Kanye had a bit of a cult following at the time, but this Travis incident seems like it had so much going for it to be the Bonnaroo 2014 left side pit line multiplied by a million.
1. Travis Scott has that cult following 2. He glorifies extreme rowdiness (which is fine) 3. He glorifies rule breaking at shows 4. Crowd is young 5. Year of bottled up energy from covid 6. Yes Travis has played two other shows semi recently, but this was the Astroworld headlining set after 1.5 years of bogus covid life. The big return. 7. No Bonnaroo Pit system
Who would you say has been the most recent artist / band with a crowd as large, youthful and rowdy as Travis' crowds? I'm trying to think but I feel like you may have to go back 15-20 years. People aren't regularly in crowds this extreme and haven't been in a long time. And it does suck that Travis is the leader of this crowds and seems to have so little care for safety.
I don't have any major conclusions to draw just thinking and typing.
Tyler The Creator has an audience right in that zone. He also has his own festival. There have been moments of chaos at Tyler and Odd Future performances back in the day. Can we say that he created a culture similar to Travis? Sure. Does it have some extremes? Yeah. Did it ever reach this point? Not really.
2013 Camp Flog Gnaw had Kanye as the secret guest and the second he showed up people went crazy. I was on the side of the crowd and still got caught up in the sway of it. That iteration was still scaled down in comparison to the current version at Dodger Stadium but there was still that push and burst happening even with 10,000 people. People settled down and things kept going. Nobody was killing themselves over Frank Ocean either who closed out the evening.
I think Tyler is the best comp. By the time his crowds were that big I feel like they were a little older and his music was less rowdy, but its a fair-ish comparison. But yeah shows that are this big and this rowdy have been extremely rare in the last 3-4 years, and basically nonexistent for 10-15 years before that.
Tyler's old shows were mad asf, but it was never an evironment where rage, anger or the consequences of that were encouraged by Tyler. It seems like you go to a Travis-concert to fight or hurt some people it almost seems, there's no etiquette. The mentality is way different.
If it’s a tweet, is the person saying something based on primary source information (i.e. do they have a copy of the release Travis is supposedly making people sign? Better yet did they post a picture of it?)
convenient statement for you to be making right as this bombshell drops.
Tyler's old shows were mad asf, but it was never an evironment where rage, anger or the consequences of that were encouraged by Tyler. It seems like you go to a Travis-concert to fight or hurt some people it almost seems, there's no etiquette. The mentality is way different.
Tyler has literally been arrested for inciting a riot.
Tyler's old shows were mad asf, but it was never an evironment where rage, anger or the consequences of that were encouraged by Tyler. It seems like you go to a Travis-concert to fight or hurt some people it almost seems, there's no etiquette. The mentality is way different.
Tyler has literally been arrested for inciting a riot.
Once. At SXSW, like wayyyy before he got big. Come on.
One solution is to just stop attending and financially supporting the type of festivals that have a larger chance of attracting this type of crowd. Not a fun thing to think about, but at the end of the day we gotta put our money where our mouth is.
So you gonna stop supporting Live Nation now?
Not every Live Nation fest is like my aforementioned examples. But ideally, we would indeed give them less money and support independent promotors. Though that's an entirely different conversation.
At some point the cons just outweigh the pros. I personally don't even consider GovBall and Lolla as options anymore based on all the awful crowd reports.
Also, people can still attend festivals elsewhere in the world that have better vibes and etiquette. Obviously more expensive and time consuming, but totally worth considering.
yeah idk the pros of attending festivals that end up being top 5 weekends of every year outweigh the cons that are mixed into those amazing weekends
Not every Live Nation fest is like my aforementioned examples. But ideally, we would indeed give them less money and support independent promotors. Though that's an entirely different conversation.
That’s a complete cop out. Live Nation knew exactly what they were gonna get from Travis and his crowd when they signed up to do this fest, and he gave them exactly what they were paying for. You are obviously never gonna go to Astroworld, so saying you’re boycotting fests that attract “that type of crowd” (ear splitting whistle) means nothing. If you’re still gonna support the company profiting off it how exactly are you putting your money where your mouth is?
Not every Live Nation fest is like my aforementioned examples. But ideally, we would indeed give them less money and support independent promotors. Though that's an entirely different conversation.
The problem is that most small fests lose money for the first three years and need someone like Live Nation to help push forward.
At some point the cons just outweigh the pros. I personally don't even consider GovBall and Lolla as options anymore based on all the awful crowd reports.
Also, people can still attend festivals elsewhere in the world that have better vibes and etiquette. Obviously more expensive and time consuming, but totally worth considering.
yeah idk the pros of attending festivals that end up being top 5 weekends of every year outweigh the cons that are mixed into those amazing weekends
Okay but not every fest ends up being a top 5 weekend of the year. They can't all be special like Bonnaroo. Which I hope remains that way. I had a really good time at GovBall in '14 and '15, and now that place ain't what it used to be.
Not every Live Nation fest is like my aforementioned examples. But ideally, we would indeed give them less money and support independent promotors. Though that's an entirely different conversation.
That's like saying; hey man, I'm gonna quit flying cause y'know, flying is kinda bad for the environment and things.
Not every Live Nation fest is like my aforementioned examples. But ideally, we would indeed give them less money and support independent promotors. Though that's an entirely different conversation.
That’s a complete cop out. Live Nation knew exactly what they were gonna get from Travis and his crowd when they signed up to do this fest, and he gave them exactly what they were paying for. You are obviously never gonna go to Astroworld, so saying you’re boycotting fests that attract “that type of crowd” (ear splitting whistle) means nothing. If you’re still gonna support the company profiting off it how exactly are you putting your money where your mouth is?
Best not to say anything at all if you cannot engage in normal conversations.
yeah idk the pros of attending festivals that end up being top 5 weekends of every year outweigh the cons that are mixed into those amazing weekends
Okay but not every fest ends up being a top 5 weekend of the year. They can't all be special like Bonnaroo. Which I hope remains that way. I had a really good time at GovBall in '14 and '15, and now that place ain't what it used to be.
still kinda struggling to see how this really relates to or helps solve the astroworld stuff. If im not there it makes room for another asshole. We need to buy MORE tickets and make less available for assholes!
Not every Live Nation fest is like my aforementioned examples. But ideally, we would indeed give them less money and support independent promotors. Though that's an entirely different conversation.
That's like saying; hey man, I'm gonna quit flying cause y'know, flying is kinda bad for the environment and things.
No, the point is that if you have to choose between two Live Nation events (say, seeing Phoebe Bridgers at one of their owned venues in Boston versus seeing her at GovBall in NYC), you should not pick the option that is more likely to have a crowd etiquette that isn't conductive to a good music experience.
