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Do you want to dance while also thinking about all the ways you've failed as a human?
UPCOMING SHOWS 11/21 - Caribou @ Avant Gardner 11/23 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 11/25 - TV on the Radio @ Webster Hall 12/5 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 12/7 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 12/14 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center
It’s just such a ridiculous claim. The amount of pro-Christian movies is pretty relentless. Anti-Semite Mel Gibson made hundreds of millions on Passion of the Christ; and isn’t he doing a sequel as well? Just last month there was some Jesus Revolution movie. Not even diving into all the Bible and Jesus limited tv series, some recent, some old. Darren Aronofsky did a Noah movie with Russell Crowe.
And you thought my giraffe criticism was annoying…
Funny he complains about this with The Last of Us, since The Walking Dead literally has a character like this with Father Gabriel. Also the hot priest from Fleabag.
Post by man1cpixiedreamgirl on Mar 14, 2023 21:43:49 GMT -5
1. The reason people are killing trans people are because of "Christians". Women are being killed and forced to carry fetuses they don't want are because of "Christians". Trans children could be forcibly taken from their supportive families because of "Christians".
2. Honestly a part of me found "Last of Us" subversive with expectations by that episode, so I was thinking in the first scene there was a CHANCE maybe it wasn't what it seemed.
3. David's not even a pastor. He's a math teacher disguised as a pastor.
Post by TickleMeElmo on Mar 14, 2023 22:02:34 GMT -5
Also, Christianity is by far the biggest religion in the US, has deep roots everywhere and has oppressed so many groups of people. Racial minorities, women, LGBTQ, poor people, Muslims, you name it. They can afford to take some ridicule.
Post by 3post1jack1 on Mar 14, 2023 22:47:56 GMT -5
I loved the finale. My biggest overall complaint about the season is just "moar", I would've loved like a 12-13 episode season.
Having said that, we had enough time to establish the bond between Joel and Ellie, which is the crux of the story. I think both Bella and Pedro delivered great performances in the finale. The previous episode did a great job of being the hammer that shatters both Joel and Ellie's defenses: Joel not wanting to get close to anyone so he doesn't have to feel that pain of losing them, and Bella using a billion little ways to hide her fear of being abandoned, again (though we of course saw this happening for her in the previous two episodes as well). i was definitely emotional throughout. i really love New Joel: 50% open book / 50% violent monster.
When Joel got real relaxed when they were escorting him out of the building, oh man that tension was delicious.
Anyway great show, i'll be a season 2 day one. On to the more important discussions:
1. Giraffes - i understand there is a game explanation for the giraffes we'll learn eventually, but as a pure TV watcher i'm totally fine with the giraffes. the season has taught us that situations can vary drastically from settlement to settlement. some places shit is all good, some places have pedo math teachers cooking humans. i have no problem believing there is a place where giraffes have managed to thrive, especially since there aren't that many humans left.
2. The Rainn Wilson tweet - totally honest, independently i had a similar reaction when we found out he was a preacher. "oh this is going to be a bad guy probably?" similar to MPDG i wasn't totally convinced because this show has kept me on my toes, but it ended up being what my experience in watching contemporary moving pictures told me it was going to be. i'm not a religious person unless you count buddhist psychology, even then i'm not much of an adherent (when asked i refer to myself as a Shitty Buddhist, which will also be my DJ name if I ever take up that craft, don't steal it), but i did notice it as a hollywood writing tell. a little nod to all us Good White Godless Liberals enjoying the video game television show, yeah you know this guy with the bible's gunna be a piece of shit. It doesn't strike me as a hateful writing choice or anything. Having said that, probably because of the weird circles I run in, I've met gobs of Christians that aren't hateful people. Hell I've been to a wedding in a Christian church where i watched two of my guy friends get married (in Alabama no less!) I'm sure somewhere in the TV audience there is some non-hateful Christian who loves this show and saw that character and were at least a little disappointed that their particular slice of life wasn't shown in a good way on the screen. But hey, art hurt sometimes, and if someone does choose to identify with any given religion they have to grapple with the choices of a lot of other people doing heinous shit in the name of that religion.
Post by SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal on Mar 14, 2023 23:40:43 GMT -5
I've never really taken stuff like that as an attack on all Christians or anything like that. It's just a typical trope of the Western canon and B-movies even. Some folks tend to use the cover of virtue to hide horrible behavior. A better psychological view of the character work is that it's also a way to justify their behavior to themselves. The reason it sticks is because it's highly believable for anyone that's paid attention to a history book or the nightly news.... or like interacts with people in their community regularly.
If there was a bad trope in that episode it was the cannibals in the apocalypse one. But that's so overused it's hard to single out this show for it. I'm sorry but 2 deer would feed that whole group for close to a week if they had two meals a day with venison. If they go far enough out of town to find humans to eat they can sit up a 30 square mile radius to hunt deer and elk. With 20 adults you could scout and have hunting rotations that would feed you. And if they can't figure out how to store for the winter than how are they even alive anyway? The problem with cannibals in media like this is that it rarely makes sense as some long-term lifestyle choice you'd make out of necessity. Desperate situation? Sure. Besides that the pedophile preacher is 1000 times more believable.
Why does the board keep insisting that this thread has a Thread Announcement and how the fuck do I get it to go away
Cause giraffes are important.
Rainn Wilson needs to watch Married at First Sight so he can see a pastor in a positive light. He keeps those whackos who all think theyre gods gift to a total stranger that they marry in check.
Post by Delicious Meatball Sub on Mar 15, 2023 8:30:49 GMT -5
The thing about the preacher sucking shit is that literally everyone else they meet sucks too. “He was reading the Bible so I knew he’d be evil” nah dude, it’s a stranger in an apocalypse show so you know he’s evil.
It’s just such a ridiculous claim. The amount of pro-Christian movies is pretty relentless. Anti-Semite Mel Gibson made hundreds of millions on Passion of the Christ; and isn’t he doing a sequel as well? Just last month there was some Jesus Revolution movie. Not even diving into all the Bible and Jesus limited tv series, some recent, some old. Darren Aronofsky did a Noah movie with Russell Crowe.
I’m not saying there aren’t any Christians portrayed positively in Hollywood, but most of what you’re describing here sounds like Christian propaganda, not regular entertainment. (Maybe not the Noah movie, but I don’t know because I’ve never seen it.)
I had a neutral reaction to the Rainn Wilson tweet. I get where he’s coming from because, along the lines of what postjack and sfa said, it’s a pretty expected Hollywood trope that the person purporting to be a Christian leader turns out to be truly awful in some way or another. If you’re a person of faith, I can imagine that gets tiresome. And not to make a “not all Christians” type of argument, but I do know some truly loving and caring Christians who don’t deserve to get lumped into that stereotype. On the other side, horrible things continue to be perpetuated in the name of Christ, and many Christians are hypocritical dirtbags, so there’s a reason they get portrayed that way in tv and movies.
The thing about the preacher sucking shit is that literally everyone else they meet sucks too. “He was reading the Bible so I knew he’d be evil” nah dude, it’s a stranger in an apocalypse show so you know he’s evil.
point taken regarding people in the apocalypse generally being bad, but in terms of the show doing a good job of subverting that expectation, when Frank was in that hole pleading with Bill to be let out, I thought for sure he was full of shit and the minute Bill let him out a bunch of raiders were gunna come swarming down on the place. but that didn't happen, and the result is the best episode of the season. so not everybody in the apocalypse is bad.
The thing about the preacher sucking shit is that literally everyone else they meet sucks too. “He was reading the Bible so I knew he’d be evil” nah dude, it’s a stranger in an apocalypse show so you know he’s evil.
point taken regarding people in the apocalypse generally being bad, but in terms of the show doing a good job of subverting that expectation, when Frank was in that hole pleading with Bill to be let out, I thought for sure he was full of shit and the minute Bill let him out a bunch of raiders were gunna come swarming down on the place. but that didn't happen, and the result is the best episode of the season. so not everybody in the apocalypse is bad.
Exactly! That's why I had a second thought of that group actually being good when they were introduced. But the was a lot of foreshadowing pretty quickly when the two dudes were outside.
The thing about the preacher sucking shit is that literally everyone else they meet sucks too. “He was reading the Bible so I knew he’d be evil” nah dude, it’s a stranger in an apocalypse show so you know he’s evil.
point taken regarding people in the apocalypse generally being bad, but in terms of the show doing a good job of subverting that expectation, when Frank was in that hole pleading with Bill to be let out, I thought for sure he was full of shit and the minute Bill let him out a bunch of raiders were gunna come swarming down on the place. but that didn't happen, and the result is the best episode of the season. so not everybody in the apocalypse is bad.
Ya but there’s a reason that was a stand alone episode. Apocalypse shows tend to focus on the different flavors of evil people can be and this one had them all. The fascist government, the left wing rebels who bomb people for no reason, the liberators blood thirsty for revenge, the communists who kill anyone who gets close to their commune so they don’t have to share their wealth. They’re all cliches and the Christianity thing didn’t stand out at all to me (well the communism one is a little unique I guess)
Do you want to dance while also thinking about all the ways you've failed as a human?
UPCOMING SHOWS 11/21 - Caribou @ Avant Gardner 11/23 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 11/25 - TV on the Radio @ Webster Hall 12/5 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 12/7 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 12/14 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center
point taken regarding people in the apocalypse generally being bad, but in terms of the show doing a good job of subverting that expectation, when Frank was in that hole pleading with Bill to be let out, I thought for sure he was full of shit and the minute Bill let him out a bunch of raiders were gunna come swarming down on the place. but that didn't happen, and the result is the best episode of the season. so not everybody in the apocalypse is bad.
Ya but there’s a reason that was a stand alone episode. Apocalypse shows tend to focus on the different flavors of evil people can be and this one had them all. The fascist government, the left wing rebels who bomb people for no reason, the liberators blood thirsty for revenge, the communists who kill anyone who gets close to their commune so they don’t have to share their wealth. They’re all cliches and the Christianity thing didn’t stand out at all to me (well the communism one is a little unique I guess)
To be fair, communism doesn't mean that it's an "All are welcome" utopia. It's just another method of economy and government structure where people who are a part of it share collectively.
If there was a bad trope in that episode it was the cannibals in the apocalypse one. But that's so overused it's hard to single out this show for it. I'm sorry but 2 deer would feed that whole group for close to a week if they had two meals a day with venison. If they go far enough out of town to find humans to eat they can sit up a 30 square mile radius to hunt deer and elk. With 20 adults you could scout and have hunting rotations that would feed you. And if they can't figure out how to store for the winter then how are they even alive anyway? The problem with cannibals in media like this is that it rarely makes sense as some long-term lifestyle choice you'd make out of necessity. Desperate situation? Sure. Besides that the pedophile preacher is 1000 times more believable.
This is all true...if you have competent leadership and/or folks who know what they're doing to figure all this out. I feel like a lot of people (not saying you, in particular, but based on conversation I've seen elsewhere around the episode) are just assuming David is smart and competent as a leader of people, when we're never actually shown that he is. He was a math teacher before the apocalypse, and probably in his 30s - what reason is there to assume that he would know anything at all about hunting, smart rationing, or how to administrate any sort of collective? We're shown that he's cunning, and that he's good at using fear and manipulation to get his flock to do what he wants, but as we've all seen in the past almost-decade, it doesn't take a whole lot of smarts or competence to do those things.
That, to me, is the even scarier/more impactful idea - that David and his followers didn't *have* to turn to cannibalism, but instead he *chose* it because it's either easier or because he's a total psychopath and it suited that violent heart he talks about.
Do you want to dance while also thinking about all the ways you've failed as a human?
UPCOMING SHOWS 11/21 - Caribou @ Avant Gardner 11/23 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 11/25 - TV on the Radio @ Webster Hall 12/5 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 12/7 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 12/14 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center
Ya but there’s a reason that was a stand alone episode. Apocalypse shows tend to focus on the different flavors of evil people can be and this one had them all. The fascist government, the left wing rebels who bomb people for no reason, the liberators blood thirsty for revenge, the communists who kill anyone who gets close to their commune so they don’t have to share their wealth. They’re all cliches and the Christianity thing didn’t stand out at all to me (well the communism one is a little unique I guess)
To be fair, communism doesn't mean that it's an "All are welcome" utopia. It's just another method of economy and government structure where people who are a part of it share collectively.
I’m just pointing out in this show the communists are bad just like everyone else.
Post by Delicious Meatball Sub on Mar 15, 2023 9:50:25 GMT -5
On another note, the last episode did not land for me at all. The idea that the doctors had to kill Ellie (and came to that conclusion without months or years of testing) makes zero sense. Without that basis, Joel’s conflict doesn’t land for me. If I try to put myself in his shoes I can’t escape the idea this is the dumbest plan I’ve bet heard and they’re killing her for no reason, at which point a bloody rampage becomes pretty easy to justify.
To be fair, communism doesn't mean that it's an "All are welcome" utopia. It's just another method of economy and government structure where people who are a part of it share collectively.
I’m just pointing out in this show the communists are bad just like everyone else.
Am I missing something? I didn’t think the communists were “bad” or that they indiscriminately killed everyone who came their way to keep all their stuff for themselves. The people in the cabin warned Joel and Ellie that everyone who goes that way gets killed, but if people who go that way just don’t come back, the people in the cabin probably just assume they’re dead. And the people from the community didn’t just kill Joel and Ellie when they met them (even before they knew Joel was Tommy’s brother). They stop them, use their cordyceps sniffing dog to check them out, and question them. So yeah, if they had been identified as being infected or if they had seemed like a threat, presumably, they have been killed, but that doesn’t mean they just kill everyone who gets close, does it? It doesn’t seem like the community would have been nearly as big as it was if they did. I realize that once they knew who Joel was, they obviously wouldn’t kill him because of that, but I didn’t think that meant they would necessarily have killed him had he just been a random guy who wasn’t going to try to steal their shit or cause other problems. But maybe I’m just being naive?
I’m just pointing out in this show the communists are bad just like everyone else.
Am I missing something? I didn’t think the communists were “bad” or that they indiscriminately killed everyone who came their way to keep all their stuff for themselves. The people in the cabin warned Joel and Ellie that everyone who goes that way gets killed, but if people who go that way just don’t come back, the people in the cabin probably just assume they’re dead. And the people from the community didn’t just kill Joel and Ellie when they met them (even before they knew Joel was Tommy’s brother). They stop them, use their cordyceps sniffing dog to check them out, and question them. So yeah, if they had been identified as being infected or if they had seemed like a threat, presumably, they have been killed, but that doesn’t mean they just kill everyone who gets close, does it? It doesn’t seem like the community would have been nearly as big as it was if they did. I realize that once they knew who Joel was, they obviously wouldn’t kill him because of that, but I didn’t think that meant they would necessarily have killed him had he just been a random guy who wasn’t going to try to steal their shit or cause other problems. But maybe I’m just being naive?
There was also some dialog about how they use force to keep people away from the camp so they won’t be overrun. They were definitely portrayed in a better light than most of the others, but Inassume some cracks will start to show if there’s more focus on them next season.
If there was a bad trope in that episode it was the cannibals in the apocalypse one. But that's so overused it's hard to single out this show for it. I'm sorry but 2 deer would feed that whole group for close to a week if they had two meals a day with venison. If they go far enough out of town to find humans to eat they can sit up a 30 square mile radius to hunt deer and elk. With 20 adults you could scout and have hunting rotations that would feed you. And if they can't figure out how to store for the winter then how are they even alive anyway? The problem with cannibals in media like this is that it rarely makes sense as some long-term lifestyle choice you'd make out of necessity. Desperate situation? Sure. Besides that the pedophile preacher is 1000 times more believable.
This is all true...if you have competent leadership and/or folks who know what they're doing to figure all this out. I feel like a lot of people (not saying you, in particular, but based on conversation I've seen elsewhere around the episode) are just assuming David is smart and competent as a leader of people, when we're never actually shown that he is. He was a math teacher before the apocalypse, and probably in his 30s - what reason is there to assume that he would know anything at all about hunting, smart rationing, or how to administrate any sort of collective? We're shown that he's cunning, and that he's good at using fear and manipulation to get his flock to do what he wants, but as we've all seen in the past almost-decade, it doesn't take a whole lot of smarts or competence to do those things.
That, to me, is the even scarier/more impactful idea - that David and his followers didn't *have* to turn to cannibalism, but instead he *chose* it because it's either easier or because he's a total psychopath and it suited that violent heart he talks about.
You made me land on another thought regarding that. None of David's people seemed especially evil in the show. Sure, James wants to leave Ellie behind or kill her, but it's out of protection of the whole of the group. There's not that joy in cruelty that David shows. From what is said, a majority of the group do not know about the cannibalism. Their intent toward murdering Joel is to avenge one of their own being killed. From the backstory given, these people have been together for years and have been through it as they have made their way across the country. Yes, the takeaway can be yet another evil preacher, but there's another take there about faithful people that are taken advantage of by a charismatic psychopath.
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