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On another note, the last episode did not land for me at all. The idea that the doctors had to kill Ellie (and came to that conclusion without months or years of testing) makes zero sense. Without that basis, Joel’s conflict doesn’t land for me. If I try to put myself in his shoes I can’t escape the idea this is the dumbest plan I’ve bet heard and they’re killing her for no reason, at which point a bloody rampage becomes pretty easy to justify.
I do like pointing out when people are so pissed about Joel's choice that while Ellie and the surgery COULD have possibly worked in finding a cure/vaccine/immunity there's absolutely no guarantee.
It's a total hail Mary. They don't necessarily know it will work. They may just be killing a girl for nothing. I know the risks .vs. reward is lopsided but it didn't seem as clear as "if Joel let them kill Ellie the world will be definitely saved"
Post by man1cpixiedreamgirl on Mar 15, 2023 10:37:11 GMT -5
Not for nothing, but I hope we have more women’s voices in the writer’s room for TLOU 2. I like Neil & Craig but we’re gonna need some help next season getting it right.
On another note, the last episode did not land for me at all. The idea that the doctors had to kill Ellie (and came to that conclusion without months or years of testing) makes zero sense. Without that basis, Joel’s conflict doesn’t land for me. If I try to put myself in his shoes I can’t escape the idea this is the dumbest plan I’ve bet heard and they’re killing her for no reason, at which point a bloody rampage becomes pretty easy to justify.
I do like pointing out when people are so pissed about Joel's choice that while Ellie and the surgery COULD have possibly worked in finding a cure/vaccine/immunity there's absolutely no guarantee.
It's a total hail Mary. They don't necessarily know it will work. They may just be killing a girl for nothing. I know the risks .vs. reward is lopsided but it didn't seem as clear as "if Joel let them kill Ellie the world will be definitely saved"
A great point. There aren't any vaccines for human fungal infections still current day so the possibility of figuring one out during a zombie apocalypse seems less than likely.
I do like pointing out when people are so pissed about Joel's choice that while Ellie and the surgery COULD have possibly worked in finding a cure/vaccine/immunity there's absolutely no guarantee.
It's a total hail Mary. They don't necessarily know it will work. They may just be killing a girl for nothing. I know the risks .vs. reward is lopsided but it didn't seem as clear as "if Joel let them kill Ellie the world will be definitely saved"
A great point. There aren't any vaccines for human fungal infections still current day so the possibility of figuring one out during a zombie apocalypse seems less than likely.
Then why go through all that trouble in the first place lmao
Post by SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal on Mar 15, 2023 13:04:49 GMT -5
Bottle episode about a mad scientist with a foot fetish tracking Ellie across the country. He intercepted Firefly chatter and misunderstood things to the point that he thinks Ellie is immune to toenail fungus.
He finds the survivors at Silver Lake, teaches them how to hunt, and leads them on their way to a thriving hunting community that worships the Horned God. Nobody dies or acts evil all episode.
A great point. There aren't any vaccines for human fungal infections still current day so the possibility of figuring one out during a zombie apocalypse seems less than likely.
Then why go through all that trouble in the first place lmao
Then why go through all that trouble in the first place lmao
He didn't know they were gonna off her to do it
The risk/odds were well established from the beginning. At some point the calculus changes for Joel and he unilaterally decides Ellie’s life more important than a potential cure and the lives of like 30 other people he mowed through. People that I assume are very valuable, doubt there’s many doctors/scientists left.
Up to the viewer to decide where they land on it, but I think Joel is clearly the villain of the story. Very frustrating show unless you care more about the relationship between Joel/Ellie than the fate of humanity, which I do not.
The risk/odds were well established from the beginning. At some point the calculus changes for Joel and he unilaterally decides Ellie’s life more important than a potential cure and the lives of like 30 other people he mowed through. People that I assume are very valuable, doubt there’s many doctors/scientists left.
Up to the viewer to decide where they land on it, but I think Joel is clearly the villain of the story. Very frustrating show unless you care more about the relationship between Joel/Ellie than the fate of humanity, which I do not.
It was not established that Ellie would need to die for this plan. All they knew was there was a doctor who could maybe figure something out. That changes a lot.
Also, I don't think the show is trying to make it clear that anyone is "the villain". seems more like a gray area where there is evil and villains all around. Fireflies, Fedra, Joel, etc. Only good people are the nice couple in their winter cabin who directed Joel on his journey lol
Post by jorgeandthekraken on Mar 16, 2023 21:27:44 GMT -5
Watched the finale. Wrecked me.
I’m curious as to if anyone who says they wouldn’t do what Joel did has kids. I’m not saying the answer is definitely no, or that no one who has kids would sacrifice their child to save humanity as a whole. But I know that, for me, where I am right now, I don’t think I could.
Obviously, I’m not really in a zombie fungus apocalypse, either, so the calculus isn’t there in any real way. But still.
Do you want to dance while also thinking about all the ways you've failed as a human?
UPCOMING SHOWS 11/21 - Caribou @ Avant Gardner 11/23 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 11/25 - TV on the Radio @ Webster Hall 12/5 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 12/7 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center 12/14 - LCD Soundsystem @ Knockdown Center
the thing is… its pretty clear the fireflies have no idea what theyre doing, they never even had a clear plan for how to make a cure out of the cordyceps growing in Ellie. Also, at the very beginning of the series they make it abundantly clear that it isnt even possible to cure a fungal infection. her life could have very well ended for no reason other than a half hearted attempt
Not for nothing, but I hope we have more women’s voices in the writer’s room for TLOU 2. I like Neil & Craig but we’re gonna need some help next season getting it right.
Post by piggy pablo on Mar 17, 2023 1:24:17 GMT -5
As far as why Ellie would have to die, I interpret it that they're not an Ellie away from a cure. They have to hack it out by spinning all her cells in a centrifuge, probably. She can't survive the process of what they'd have to do to get closer to a cure. I buy that. It does make Joel's choice more justifiable, and there's definitely an unbelievable aspect to the idea that we just have to kill this one person to save the human race, but I still think Joel makes the *wrong* choice and that that's still impactful.
I haven't watched the finale yet and I'm just going off what I felt about the game.
Playing through the end of God of War 2: Ragnarok and I hope this isn't a spoiler but it's pretty substantial the difference in the way the two series treat death and in particular the possible death of a child. Idk what my point is here except get a Playstation.
if this show convinced you of storytelling through video games as a medium please do yourself a favor and play Metal Gear Solid 1-3.
MGS2 specifically is wildly ahead of its time
Or just watch this video.
But seriously, I love MGS but that whole story is incredibly convoluted. If giraffes and a cure for a fungal pandemic bugged you, the shit that goes on in MGS will drive you insane. I love it and many others do too but it's definitely polarizing. If anything, I'd actually suggest Death Stranding as a Kojima title since that has a more similar aspect of story-telling to what TLOU is like rather than MGS. It's just as crazy, if not crazier than MGS but it's also much more of an emotional journey. I actually think DS would translate better as a show than MGS would, even though both suffer from instances of you having to sit through some explanation of something that takes 20-30 mins.
If you're looking for a game with a great emotional story-telling with a more cinematic feel like TLOU, my top recommendations would be God of War, Telltale's The Walking Dead, Life Is Strange and Detroit: Become Human.
Post by piggy pablo on Mar 18, 2023 1:30:48 GMT -5
Red Dead Revolver/Redemption and Grand Theft Auto 4 and 5 are fun too. Easily could be adapted at some point also.
I think Tom Cruise was trying to get Halo made for some time. That might have ended up being Edge of Tomorrow. Not sure. Bungie is really good with sci-fi lore in Halo and Destiny. Sony recently bought Bungie with the consideration of new IP in mind. Naughty Dog, who made TLOU, are also supposed to be developing new IP.
That would be a pretty savvy play by Sony to have some synergy between their gaming and film branches. My understanding of Sony is that they're so huge that their constituent parts don't coordinate as well as they maybe could.
The new Mario movie also actually looks really good to me lol.
Red Dead Revolver/Redemption and Grand Theft Auto 4 and 5 are fun too. Easily could be adapted at some point also.
I think Tom Cruise was trying to get Halo made for some time. That might have ended up being Edge of Tomorrow. Not sure. Bungie is really good with sci-fi lore in Halo and Destiny. Sony recently bought Bungie with the consideration of new IP in mind. Naughty Dog, who made TLOU, are also supposed to be developing new IP.
That would be a pretty savvy play by Sony to have some synergy between their gaming and film branches. My understanding of Sony is that they're so huge that their constituent parts don't coordinate as well as they maybe could.
The new Mario movie also actually looks really good to me lol.
They literally just release a Halo series last year on Paramount+ with Pornstache as Master Chief.
Red Dead Revolver/Redemption and Grand Theft Auto 4 and 5 are fun too. Easily could be adapted at some point also.
I think Tom Cruise was trying to get Halo made for some time. That might have ended up being Edge of Tomorrow. Not sure. Bungie is really good with sci-fi lore in Halo and Destiny. Sony recently bought Bungie with the consideration of new IP in mind. Naughty Dog, who made TLOU, are also supposed to be developing new IP.
That would be a pretty savvy play by Sony to have some synergy between their gaming and film branches. My understanding of Sony is that they're so huge that their constituent parts don't coordinate as well as they maybe could.
The new Mario movie also actually looks really good to me lol.
They literally just release a Halo series last year on Paramount+ with Pornstache as Master Chief.
Ok great that doesn't really contradict anything I said. And I think you mean Nico Sobotka. Nerd.
Fun fact: Halo was originally announced as a Mac OS exclusive and it ended up launching the X-Box.
that first trailer is kinda wild
It's crazy that Bungie has fallen like sand through the hands of both Apple and Microsoft and now lands with Sony. Microsoft made out ok in the deal though and Apple gaming is a wasteland.
Post by SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal on Mar 30, 2023 10:45:53 GMT -5
Slight possibility Joel damned the human race to sooth over his personal demons. While absolutely compelling it was very clearly an ego driven decision.
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