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Taking a side on the "he said/she said" of it all in a celebrity breakup is hardly the same same thing as taking offense to bigotry.
Are you fucking kidding me with this shit
Not one bit. The infamous NY Times article was a complete grab bag of serious allegations and not-so-serious relationship troubles between consenting adults. The entire tone of the article was like saying "The defendant murdered someone. That was terrible. The defendant also jaywalked and then shoplifted a candy bar. That was also terrible."
They dated. They broke up. He no longer wanted to produce her after they broke up. People cancel plans to do things together after they break up. He still let her use Paxam Studios.
The article also outlined some far more serious Louis CK-like potentially criminal behavior involving women other than Bridgers and Moore. That was fair game to cover in a news article, the Bridgers and Moore stuff wasn't.
Not one bit. The infamous NY Times article was a complete grab bag of serious allegations and not-so-serious relationship troubles between consenting adults. The entire tone of the article was like saying "The defendant murdered someone. That was terrible. The defendant also jaywalked and then shoplifted a candy bar. That was also terrible."
They dated. They broke up. He no longer wanted to produce her after they broke up. People cancel plans to do things together after they break up. He still let her use Paxam Studios.
The article also outlined some far more serious Louis CK-like potentially criminal behavior involving women other than Bridgers and Moore. That was fair game to cover in a news article, the Bridgers and Moore stuff wasn't.
Do you ever consider educating yourself about the things you're talking about or do you just say ill-informed shit because you don't have anything else going on?
Start here. Then maybe talk to some women you know who've been in abusive relationships, if they're willing to talk about the myriad ways they were materially harmed that fall outside the scope of what you imagine domestic abuse looks like. And if that doesn't work, maybe just never proffer an opinion on the subject again until someone asks you for one.
Not one bit. The infamous NY Times article was a complete grab bag of serious allegations and not-so-serious relationship troubles between consenting adults. The entire tone of the article was like saying "The defendant murdered someone. That was terrible. The defendant also jaywalked and then shoplifted a candy bar. That was also terrible."
They dated. They broke up. He no longer wanted to produce her after they broke up. People cancel plans to do things together after they break up. He still let her use Paxam Studios.
The article also outlined some far more serious Louis CK-like potentially criminal behavior involving women other than Bridgers and Moore. That was fair game to cover in a news article, the Bridgers and Moore stuff wasn't.
Do you ever consider educating yourself about the things you're talking about or do you just say ill-informed shit because you don't have anything else going on?
Start here. Then maybe talk to some women you know who've been in abusive relationships, if they're willing to talk about the myriad ways they were materially harmed that fall outside the scope of what you imagine domestic abuse looks like. And if that doesn't work, maybe just never proffer an opinion on the subject again until someone asks you for one.
I read the NY Times article. Moore said that he hadn't been adequately supportive of her own musical endeavors and in fact discouraged her from pursuing them. She said that he was also emotionally needy. That made him a bad husband; it wasn't worthy of inclusion in the NY Times article.
We have these wonderful things in the U.S. called courts. When you have been criminally wronged, you can press charges. When someone has harmed you through tortious behavior, you can file suit. In either instance, all parties can present evidence and call witnesses, and a jury or judge weighs evidence in terms of the relevant statutory or case law and renders a verdict or judgment.
Trial by social media is utter and complete bullshit.
Less than 30% of police calls for intimate partner violence result in an arrest, and you somehow think a woman can trust the criminal justice system - which itself gives safe harbor and employment to hundreds of abusive men - when her partner is emotionally or psychologically abusive or neglectful? You think the average person on a jury is going to have any meaningful understanding of the insidious and immeasurable ways one person can hurt another?
Did you not recently watch as the American court system turned Amber Heard into America's biggest villain after British courts ruled that she was abused by Johnny Depp? Tortious conduct doesn't mean shit if you're a famous man in America.
Let's look at what Mandy Moore, his wife of 7 years and a musical collaborator for two years before that, said on the record. Statements which, by the way, he did not seek legal damages over, speaking of tortious conduct.
From the New York Times:
Adams discouraged her from working with other producers or managers, she said, effectively leaving him in charge of her music career... They wrote songs together regularly that Adams promised to record, but never did. He booked them time at his studio, only to replace her with other female artists, she said... Adams lorded his artistic accomplishments over her, she said. “He would always tell me, ‘You’re not a real musician, because you don’t play an instrument.’” ... She released her sixth LP, completed before their marriage, shortly after they wed in 2009, and has released no albums since. “His controlling behavior essentially did block my ability to make new connections in the industry during a very pivotal and potentially lucrative time — my entire mid-to-late 20s,” she said. Their divorce was finalized in 2016.
From WTF with Marc Maron (which was recorded before the NYT article was published)
"I was imperceptible in my own world... [He made] me feel valued, to be needed [to take care of him.]... I would do little jobs. It's not like I completely stopped working. I would do things here or there, but it would become abundantly clear while I was working, things would completely fall apart at home,” she explained. “I couldn't do my job because there was a constant stream of trying to pay attention to this person who needed me and wouldn't let me do anything else.”
Let's take a look at what the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence considers emotional or psychological abuse, with the things he did - again, just to Mandy Moore, who you have dismissed - indicated in bold:
• Humiliating the victim • Controlling what the victim can/cannot do • Withholding information from the victim • Deliberately doing something to make the victim feel diminished/embarrassed • Isolating the victim from friends/family • Denying the victim access to money or other basic resources • Stalking • Denigrating the victim in public or in private • Undermining the victim’s confidence and/or sense of self-worth • Convincing the victim (s)he is crazy • Other forms of verbal abuse
LET'S JUST SAY for a minute that Mandy Moore is full of shit. That you're right to dismiss those bolded concerns as being part of a messy divorce.
And LET'S JUST SAY that he didn't, at the age of 39 or 40, manipulate and coerce a 20-year-old Phoebe Bridgers into a brief romantic relationship, in which he demanded to know her location, threatened her career, and threaten to kill himself if she didn't do what he wanted. And that he didn't, at one point, after she had resigned herself to his behavior to get a spot opening for him - when they were not dating, ambush her totally nude with the expectation of sexual gratification, a la Louis CK. Things I didn't even bold above, but would have covered another couple of categories.
Let's say none of that happened as they describe it - putting aside, even, that he admitted all of it and tried to blame it on his substance use.
Setting aside everything with Moore and Bridgers, this is still a person who, in your words, committed "far more serious potentially criminal behavior involving women other than Bridgers and Moore" - which is the only accurate thing you've said to this point on the matter - which would lead me to assume you think he might actually have been abusive to at least some of the women who accused him.
So bearing all that in mind, why on earth would you think it's even remotely funny - or even acceptably unfunny - to joke about wearing a shirt of his to see someone who says he abused them, even if you think he didn't do it? (Which you shouldn't, because again, he admitted it)
How little empathy do you have to not see that as being aggressively dismissive toward anyone - not just Phoebe Bridgers - who has been a victim of domestic abuse?
Do you ever consider educating yourself about the things you're talking about or do you just say ill-informed shit because you don't have anything else going on?
Start here. Then maybe talk to some women you know who've been in abusive relationships, if they're willing to talk about the myriad ways they were materially harmed that fall outside the scope of what you imagine domestic abuse looks like. And if that doesn't work, maybe just never proffer an opinion on the subject again until someone asks you for one.
I read the NY Times article. Moore said that he hadn't been adequately supportive of her own musical endeavors and in fact discouraged her from pursuing them. She said that he was also emotionally needy. That made him a bad husband; it wasn't worthy of inclusion in the NY Times article.
We have these wonderful things in the U.S. called courts. When you have been criminally wronged, you can press charges. When someone has harmed you through tortious behavior, you can file suit. In either instance, all parties can present evidence and call witnesses, and a jury or judge weighs evidence in terms of the relevant statutory or case law and renders a verdict or judgment.
Trial by social media is utter and complete bullshit.
Good thing you sold your boy genius ticket, for others sake so they wouldn't be subjected to you and for your sake cause you would have gotten punched so hard
Last Edit: Jun 19, 2023 9:34:48 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
I read the NY Times article. Moore said that he hadn't been adequately supportive of her own musical endeavors and in fact discouraged her from pursuing them. She said that he was also emotionally needy. That made him a bad husband; it wasn't worthy of inclusion in the NY Times article.
We have these wonderful things in the U.S. called courts. When you have been criminally wronged, you can press charges. When someone has harmed you through tortious behavior, you can file suit. In either instance, all parties can present evidence and call witnesses, and a jury or judge weighs evidence in terms of the relevant statutory or case law and renders a verdict or judgment.
Trial by social media is utter and complete bullshit.
Good thing you sold your boy genius ticket, for others sake so they wouldn't be subjected to you and for your sake cause you would have gotten punched so hard
Subjected to me? I wasn't about to walk in with a bullhorn and pontificate on the topic of why couples that breakup generally don't follow through on plans previously made before the breakup.
Good thing you sold your boy genius ticket, for others sake so they wouldn't be subjected to you and for your sake cause you would have gotten punched so hard
Subjected to me? I wasn't about to walk in with a bullhorn and pontificate on the topic of why couples that breakup generally don't follow through on plans previously made before the breakup.
you were gonna wear a fucking Ryan Adams shirt!!!!
Subjected to me? I wasn't about to walk in with a bullhorn and pontificate on the topic of why couples that breakup generally don't follow through on plans previously made before the breakup.
you were gonna wear a fucking Ryan Adams shirt!!!!
She liked the guy well enough to date him, record in his studio, and make him the subject of her breakout single.
That should be less controversial than, say, wearing a Lindsey Buckingham shirt to a Stevie Nicks concert, which isn't controversial at all and which I would absolutely do.
i don't know how the radius clause for this thing works but the 1975 is playing in boston in november, is that close enough to take this horse out back and shoot it?
i don't know how the radius clause for this thing works but the 1975 is playing in boston in november, is that close enough to take this horse out back and shoot it?
If 2024 is the first year that LiveNation is booking Boston Calling, I'd expect them to have their own radius clause baked into the contracts which may or may not be similar to any that MSG Company/Boston Calling used previously. I wouldn't think that six months would be an issue, but the best way to estimate is to look at this year's Shaky Knees performers and see when their previous and following Atlanta dates happened/will happen.
i don't know how the radius clause for this thing works but the 1975 is playing in boston in november, is that close enough to take this horse out back and shoot it?
I think we always go back to 'yes and no' cuz the killers played the TD Garden in January 2018, then that same month it was announced they were gonna play BC that same year, 5 months later. But that said I can't think of any other headliner who has done that since.
But the fact 1975 is coming back around is wild, considering they did 2 nights at MGM Fenway last November, and Mohegan Sun all of which was sold out, so them coming back for an arena date (with a suspicious gap for a 2nd show if needed, they already added one in NYC) and then months later coming back AGAIN to do BC feels like an overplay of the area or whatever. Like by then fans would have had at least 4 chances to see them in the southern new England area over a span of just 12 months, when other bands seem to skip Boston entirely lately. I'd be kinda surprised if they came back (and I'm a massive fan lol) so fast
Good thing you sold your boy genius ticket, for others sake so they wouldn't be subjected to you and for your sake cause you would have gotten punched so hard
Subjected to me? I wasn't about to walk in with a bullhorn and pontificate on the topic of why couples that breakup generally don't follow through on plans previously made before the breakup.
I wish Mandy Moore and Phoebe Bridgers would walk into your house with a bullhorn and pontificate on how deeply offensive the shit you continue to say is, even after you've been told repeatedly that it's offensive
Subjected to me? I wasn't about to walk in with a bullhorn and pontificate on the topic of why couples that breakup generally don't follow through on plans previously made before the breakup.
I wish Mandy Moore and Phoebe Bridgers would walk into your house with a bullhorn and pontificate on how deeply offensive the shit you continue to say is, even after you've been told repeatedly that it's offensive
I wish a law professor would walk into your house with a bullhorn and explain the basics of criminal and civil law, and why the admittedly imperfect legal system we have in the U.S. is so much better than passing judgment based solely upon groupthink social media consensus.
That anyone accepts anything as true simply because a bunch of like-minded people on social media have agreed that it's true is what's truly offensive. The hive mind has decided that simply withdrawing an offer to go into a recording studio with an ex is somehow abusive. Spoiler alert: it's not.
Yes, some of the allegations in the NY Times article were much more serious and if you've got a problem with him because of those allegations, that's more than fair. But we generally scoff at countries elsewhere in the world where the death penalty is handed out for everything from murder to shoplifting to jaywalking, and the groupthink consensus on Ryan Adams is analogous to that, in its embrace of a NY Times article which painted a wide range of very bad and decidedly less bad behavior with a single brush.
Last Edit: Jun 20, 2023 9:12:24 GMT -5 by tw12 - Back to Top
tw12 I personally find it abhorrent that you think wearing a Ryan Adams shirt to a Phoebe Bridgers show is appropriate and or funny. But here we are. Thankfully I don’t have to got to any shows with you wearing a shirt that says he’s an idiot with an arrow pointing at you.
So let’s put this dead horse back in the barn and continue on with the discussion of whether or not Boston Calling 2024 is going to suck or not.
I wish Mandy Moore and Phoebe Bridgers would walk into your house with a bullhorn and pontificate on how deeply offensive the shit you continue to say is, even after you've been told repeatedly that it's offensive
I wish a law professor would walk into your house with a bullhorn and explain the basics of criminal and civil law, and why the admittedly imperfect legal system we have in the U.S. is so much better than passing judgment based solely upon groupthink social media consensus.
as someone with an actual law degree and more than a decade practicing in every level of civil court save for the United States Supreme Court, you have literally zero idea what you're talking about and you should probably shut up now
I wish a law professor would walk into your house with a bullhorn and explain the basics of criminal and civil law, and why the admittedly imperfect legal system we have in the U.S. is so much better than passing judgment based solely upon groupthink social media consensus.
as someone with an actual law degree and more than a decade practicing in every level of civil court save for the United States Supreme Court, you have literally zero idea what you're talking about and you should probably shut up now
I bet that I got my J.D. before you received yours (but, admittedly, I didn't pass the bar. Even the best bar review course isn't equipped to teach you an area of law from scratch, and my utter lack of pre-existing knowledge of the banking provisions of the UCC stood between me and getting a few more essay points which would have put me over the top.)
So, I do understand the basic principles of tort law and criminal law. I'm shocked that you do, however, since you lean into the ad hominem approach at every opportunity.
Post by Fitter Happier on Jun 20, 2023 10:30:36 GMT -5
I know it would have to be another two years out, but what are the odds Boston Calling books Radiohead? They've played many of the Livenation fests and seem to do some combination of Lolla, ACL, Bonnaroo, etc. on each tour cycle. Boston Calling is leaning into rock and booked a bunch of big name expensive rock acts. What do we think? Also, this may be the only way the wife and I make the trek again but would probably lean toward whichever of the big four they play. What bands would bring all of you back? A stacked undercard (I know very unlikely now) and some combination of LCD, Kendrick, and Bon Iver or something like that may do it as well. Leaning towards doing Pitchfork next year, but would love to do Boston Calling in the future again but haven't been sold on the lineups recently.
I know it would have to be another two years out, but what are the odds Boston Calling books Radiohead? They've played many of the Livenation fests and seem to do some combination of Lolla, ACL, Bonnaroo, etc. on each tour cycle. Boston Calling is leaning into rock and booked a bunch of big name expensive rock acts. What do we think? Also, this may be the only way the wife and I make the trek again but would probably lean toward whichever of the big four they play. What bands would bring all of you back? A stacked undercard (I know very unlikely now) and some combination of LCD, Kendrick, and Bon Iver or something like that may do it as well. Leaning towards doing Pitchfork next year, but would love to do Boston Calling in the future again but haven't been sold on the lineups recently.
i wouldn't say it's necessarily out of the question, but i think it depends on whether they ever do a big tour again (or any tour, for that matter). Also worth noting that when they last toured in 2018 they didn't play any USA festivals (though they had hit most of the big ones like Coachella, ACL, Lolla, in either 2017 or 2016).
Since this festival is now referred to as “Shaky Knees North”, I’m submitting nearly the same wish list:
Headliners- any 3 of: Tool Florence and the Machine Vampire Weekend Rage Against the Machine Blur (long shot #1) The Cure (long shot #2)
Undercard: Wet Leg Fontaines DC Pixies Weyes Blood Big Thief Alex G Manchester Orchestra Momma Illiterate Light Animal Collective Violent Femmes
Would love any combination of that undercard across any of the 3 days. I would love Manchester Orchestra as I need to sell my tickets to their August show in Boston (anyone interested?).
Here's my crazy long shot of a top 6: Blur - Yeah Yeah Yeahs Gorillaz (get a Damon discount?) or Tame Impala - Avett Brothers (gotta keep that Americana day going) Lorde - CHURVCHES
I know it would have to be another two years out, but what are the odds Boston Calling books Radiohead? They've played many of the Livenation fests and seem to do some combination of Lolla, ACL, Bonnaroo, etc. on each tour cycle. Boston Calling is leaning into rock and booked a bunch of big name expensive rock acts. What do we think? Also, this may be the only way the wife and I make the trek again but would probably lean toward whichever of the big four they play. What bands would bring all of you back? A stacked undercard (I know very unlikely now) and some combination of LCD, Kendrick, and Bon Iver or something like that may do it as well. Leaning towards doing Pitchfork next year, but would love to do Boston Calling in the future again but haven't been sold on the lineups recently.
i wouldn't say it's necessarily out of the question, but i think it depends on whether they ever do a big tour again (or any tour, for that matter). Also worth noting that when they last toured in 2018 they didn't play any USA festivals (though they had hit most of the big ones like Coachella, ACL, Lolla, in either 2017 or 2016).
I could definitely see Thom and Jonny appearing with The Smile as a co-headliner. They just released a new single, and are working on a new album. They last played Boston November 2022.
i wouldn't say it's necessarily out of the question, but i think it depends on whether they ever do a big tour again (or any tour, for that matter). Also worth noting that when they last toured in 2018 they didn't play any USA festivals (though they had hit most of the big ones like Coachella, ACL, Lolla, in either 2017 or 2016).
I could definitely see Thom and Jonny appearing with The Smile as a co-headliner. They just released a new single, and are working on a new album. They last played Boston November 2022.
Maybe. The Smile seems a bit too niche for a sub at BC though.
I can't imagine Chvrches as a sub either. Maybe Blue closer.
You're probably right, but I was doing a quick look at artists that fit the "BC" mold who may be touring next year and threw them in there. Had Jasmine Sullivan there previously but think she would be a blue closer or in the Mt. Joy slot on red.
