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What is happening in Gaza is tragic, full stop. There has been no shortage of coverage within this thread of the ongoing atrocities and the humanitarian crisis that are going on there.
Unfortunately, I cannot say that was the case as hundreds of innocent Israeli civilians were brutally tortured, murdered, or kidnapped on 10/7, when this conversation was taking place in the politics thread. It shouldn't be that hard to condemn the murder of innocent civilians, no matter who those people are.
It's also telling that as this situation has progressed, there has been no shortage of coverage in here around the rise of Islamophobia or anti-Palestinian rhetoric we have seen all over the world. At the same time, the sharp rise in antisemitism that has taken place goes completely unmentioned, unless it's to defend people who feel the need to rip down posters of Jewish hostages.
Why is it there was no mention of what happened Dagestan in this thread? Paul Kessler's life also wasn't worth mentioning I suppose. There is a common theme at play here, it's not that hard to see.
you sure do love to rewrite the history of this thread/the original conversations in the Politics thread on the topic before this thread was created.
lots of people commented on it with sentiments ranging from "this is tragic on all sides and is going to continue to be tragic/violent and this shit sucks" (see examples below)....
250 bodies found so far at the site of that rave/music festival. I saw footage of it from before the attack - looked like any of a dozen festivals I’ve been to. And given the theme of the festival, most of those folks were probably in favor of Bibi shoving it straight up his ass. And now they’re all fucking dead.
That's fair, but my issue is with the lack of sympathy for the dead or empathy for those in mourning. We know dozens of babies were slaughtered, does it really matter if they were beheaded or not?
Please understand that a lot of us, especially in this circle...jerk...., have nuanced feelings about what's going on. Being told on your Saturday - may you be just at home, or going to work... - that Hamas attacked a festival? Let's just say you have friends of both creeds? Maybe you have public statements about BiBi and/or violence in general?What if you were raised in a 20%+ Jewish or Arab area? No one wanted to bust the bubble. Honestly surprising here.
Maybe because at the time, I was raised where 9/11 affected people, NJ or not. There's no lack of empathy - but we are burnt out - and for some it feels brain numbing?
Also, are we just referring to Israelis as Jews now?
You’re not going to comment on me referring to Palestinians as Muslims? Just be consistent, that’s all we are asking you to do here. The reason so many people have been arguing with y’all is that there isn’t any consistency.
Both sides are fucked and both sides are to blame and it’s all a fucking tragedy. Let’s just all agree that this shit sucks and we are all numb to it
If I learned to beat my kids because that's what my father did to me, it's possible to condemn my actions also holding an understanding for their genesis - as well as empathy for my father, who was mistreated similarly. To me, understanding that actions occur within a nesting doll of contexts serves to highlight how trying to determine who deserves The Ultimate Blame will often only lead to those whose names have long been forgotten. There are better ways for me to direct my energy.
What I do know is that every night, mothers will learn the pain of losing a child; a baby's first steps will be their last. Many will be crushed under rubble as their calls go unanswered, knowing that death will be coming sooner than expected - but not soon enough. Skin will sear and bubble and pus and, eventually, scar. Those scars will hold memory and anger; children will grow to beat their children. With whatever limbs they have left, anyway.
Be kind, folks.
...all the way to the totally deranged run of posts from "Dr Joe" (and I just pulled a couple here, which were NOT the worst ones)...
Hamas threatening to execute hostages, including children ages 3 and 5, if Israel does not stop bombing Hamas facilities. They simply will “have no choice” and be “forced” to murder little children.
All this talk about the murdering of children from the incorrect claim back in October that Hamas was beheading a bunch of Israeli babies.... that ended up being false, and yet know what is real, true, proven? The THOUSANDS of Palestinian kids that have been slaughtered at the hands of the Israeli govt/military since "Dr Joe" wrote this very post.
It seems like you're just making arguments against things that no one here is saying. No one here is applauding Hamas. Did you know over 40% of the people starving to death without access to water in the open air prison of Gaza are under 14 years old? You do realize it's possible to be against what the Israeli govt is doing and not support Hamas?
Israel gave free water, food, electricity, and money to Gaza/Hamas for decades. You seriously expect them to continue to give aid to a government after it literally beheaded babies, killed and raped women in front of their families, and paraded dead bodies around? Get real brother, it’s war. Gaza ain’t getting shit from Israel until Hamas is gone.
When you say “it’s just so happens that” more Palestinians have died than Israelis, it ignores the massive point that the leaders of Palestine have ordained it to be so by using children and women as human shields, storing munitions in schools, mosques, and hospitals. It’s despicable because entities like Hamas WANT there to be more Palestinian deaths. It’s part of their strategy. And it’s sick.
And since THIS post, we have learned that Netanyahu literally rejected a proposed compromise that would've released some of HIS STATE'S INNOCENT CITIZENS from Hamas in exchange for a few days of ceasefire. If we are going to discuss sick strategies, that would be top of the list...
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Anyway. I pulled those quotes to show that plenty of people did quickly condemn the violence of October 7th on the forum directly with thier posts and express mourning/despair over those lost lives. Then Pale Horse came in implicitly suggesting some people were being anti-Semitic/heartless/morally corrupted because they weren't doing it enough or in the way he thought should occur; and THEN "Dr Joe" came in with much more hostile and explicit posts of the same tune.
So people reacted, understandably, and it became a debate/back-and-forth. That was all over a month ago. Now we have seen day after day after day of a genocide playing out in Palestine with 10k+ dead, and so many of those being children, and so yeah our convos are mostly around that.
Context is key. Stop acting like people don't give a shit about the innocents who lost their lives on October 7th or the Israelis still being held hostage while ignoring the context of why/when the convo shifted away from that being the focus.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
You were able to find two posts that were sympathetic to the loss of Israeli lives the day after the event, I appreciate that there was some acknowledgement of the massacre that took place, but I disagree with your assessment that two posts constitutes "plenty of people". And yes, there were some additional posts made several days later, as the discussion went on, and myself and a few other posters pointed out the relative lack of condemnation for the loss of innocent Israeli lives - a discussion that had already filled up several pages of the politics thread at that point, so much so that it needed to have its own thread created. There are a number of people who have been participating in the discussion from the beginning, that for whatever reason never felt the need to condemn Hamas or the loss of Israeli lives, but have had no problem condemning Israel over and over again. This included, but was not limited to spreading misinformation, or straight up lying. I take issue with the hypocrisy and dishonesty.
I encourage people to continue to discuss the tragic events that are unfolding in Gaza & Israel, it is a discussion that should and must continue.
This latest back and forth started after someone decided to refer to posters of hostages as "propaganda posters", and their infuriation with the people who have been pulling down those posters having to face the consequences of their actions. I take deep offense to that, and felt the need to speak up. I'll continue to speak up, whenever I feel the need, this is the internet after all.
Before posting in this thread, all users are required to tag Pale Hose and provide a personal statement condemning the terrorist attack of October 7th perpetrated by Hamas.
Additionally, at any point in the future, all users may be required to provide an updated statement further condemning Hamas’ terrorist attack with even stronger language at the sole discretion of Pale Hose.
Failure to adhere to these new rules may result in a user being labeled as dishonest or even antisemitic.
Last Edit: Nov 12, 2023 22:05:55 GMT -5 by ZIG - Back to Top
There are a number of people who have been participating in the discussion from the beginning, that for whatever reason never felt the need to condemn Hamas or the loss of Israeli lives, but have had no problem condemning Israel over and over again.
Why do we keep “condemning Israel over and over again”….? You’re so close. (r/SelfAwarewolves).
(Insert “Are we the Baddies” Meme)
Last Edit: Nov 12, 2023 17:31:00 GMT -5 by ZIG - Back to Top
for whatever reason never felt the need to condemn Hamas or the loss of Israeli lives, but have had no problem condemning Israel over and over again.
Fuck Hamas and their existence, fuck the Israeli government, especially Bibi the Butcher, and their existence.
That make you happy? Do you need to keep inventing scenarios in your head where people don't hate terrorists and oppresive governments at the same time? Or do you just sit in an anti-israel tiktok echo chamber and then project it onto everyone that criticizes the governemnt of Israel?
for whatever reason never felt the need to condemn Hamas or the loss of Israeli lives, but have had no problem condemning Israel over and over again.
Fuck Hamas and their existence, fuck the Israeli government, especially Bibi the Butcher, and their existence.
That make you happy? Do you need to keep inventing scenarios in your head where people don't hate terrorists and oppresive governments at the same time? Or do you just sit in an anti-israel tiktok echo chamber and then project it onto everyone that criticizes the governemnt of Israel?
I have previously stated in this thread, I am no fan of the current Israeli government (or maybe it was the politics thread before this one was created). I particularly loathe Bibi, and I personally believe he helped fan the flames that led to Rabin's assassination, which effectively ended any real hope for a two state solution.
I have no problem with anyone here taking shots at the Israeli government, let me be clear on that. My issues are those stated above. Israelis and Jewish people all over the world are suffering right now too, we are allowed a space to grieve without being attacked.
Post by abefroman1 on Nov 12, 2023 19:09:56 GMT -5
So when you previously state things, we are expected to remember them. But when a bunch of other people previously state things, you forget them and say people are "not condemning" and "not giving Jewish people space"
So when you previously state things, we are expected to remember them. But when a bunch of other people previously state things, you forget them and say people are "not condemning" and "not giving Jewish people space"
No, I never said that no one in this thread (or previously, the politics thread) had been sympathetic to the victims of 10/7. My issue was/is with the disproportionate number of people in here who were quick to criticize Israel for retaliating vs the number of folks who spoke up against Hamas after 10/7. Rummy's post with all of the quotes actually kind of proves my point. I also take issue with the folks who were criticizing the spread of misinformation, while doing the same thing themselves.
Most recently, I spoke up against someone who decided to refer to posters of hostages as "propaganda posters", and their infuriation with the people who have been pulling down those posters having to face the consequences of their actions.
Let me know if that is still not clear enough. I can provide receipts upon request.
You were able to find two posts that were sympathetic to the loss of Israeli lives the day after the event, I appreciate that there was some acknowledgement of the massacre that took place, but I disagree with your assessment that two posts constitutes "plenty of people". And yes, there were some additional posts made several days later, as the discussion went on, and myself and a few other posters pointed out the relative lack of condemnation for the loss of innocent Israeli lives - a discussion that had already filled up several pages of the politics thread at that point, so much so that it needed to have its own thread created. There are a number of people who have been participating in the discussion from the beginning, that for whatever reason never felt the need to condemn Hamas or the loss of Israeli lives, but have had no problem condemning Israel over and over again. This included, but was not limited to spreading misinformation, or straight up lying. I take issue with the hypocrisy and dishonesty.
I encourage people to continue to discuss the tragic events that are unfolding in Gaza & Israel, it is a discussion that should and must continue.
This latest back and forth started after someone decided to refer to posters of hostages as "propaganda posters", and their infuriation with the people who have been pulling down those posters having to face the consequences of their actions. I take deep offense to that, and felt the need to speak up. I'll continue to speak up, whenever I feel the need, this is the internet after all.
And it's Pale Hose, not Horse.
You’ll always be Pale Horse to me.
And yeah I’m sorry but I’m just genuinely not going to bend over backwards trying to further explain to you why so many of us including myself are prioritizing the condemnation of a continued genocide over one day of horror on October 7th — it DOES NOT mean that we find the horrors of October 7th any less, well, horrible. It just means that we are beyond enraged witnessing the genocide of innocent Palestinians that has been taking place ever since that one attack by Hamas, and that’s where our hearts and brains are focused right now.
Eta: the overt genocide has been taking place for a month+ now but there were 1001 atrocities committed upon Palestinians by the Israeli government/military for years and years before all this too. Correct me if I’m wrong Pale Horse, but I don’t recall you ever posting about such atrocities in the political thread or wanting to engage in Convo about this at all pre October 7??
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Also idk why Pale Horse keeps saying “only 2 posts condemned October 7th” when I quoted literally 5 that did directly and there were others I saw in my review that did as well.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Also idk why Pale Horse keeps saying “only 2 posts condemned October 7th” when I quoted literally 5 that did directly and there were others I saw in my review that did as well.
You are misquoting me. Re-read what I actually posted.
You were able to find two posts that were sympathetic to the loss of Israeli lives the day after the event, I appreciate that there was some acknowledgement of the massacre that took place, but I disagree with your assessment that two posts constitutes "plenty of people". And yes, there were some additional posts made several days later, as the discussion went on, and myself and a few other posters pointed out the relative lack of condemnation for the loss of innocent Israeli lives - a discussion that had already filled up several pages of the politics thread at that point, so much so that it needed to have its own thread created. There are a number of people who have been participating in the discussion from the beginning, that for whatever reason never felt the need to condemn Hamas or the loss of Israeli lives, but have had no problem condemning Israel over and over again. This included, but was not limited to spreading misinformation, or straight up lying. I take issue with the hypocrisy and dishonesty.
I encourage people to continue to discuss the tragic events that are unfolding in Gaza & Israel, it is a discussion that should and must continue.
This latest back and forth started after someone decided to refer to posters of hostages as "propaganda posters", and their infuriation with the people who have been pulling down those posters having to face the consequences of their actions. I take deep offense to that, and felt the need to speak up. I'll continue to speak up, whenever I feel the need, this is the internet after all.
And it's Pale Hose, not Horse.
Eta: the overt genocide has been taking place for a month+ now but there were 1001 atrocities committed upon Palestinians by the Israeli government/military for years and years before all this too. Correct me if I’m wrong Pale Horse, but I don’t recall you ever posting about such atrocities in the political thread or wanting to engage in Convo about this at all pre October 7??
Of course Pale Horse has acknowledged/posted repeatedly in the past about Israel's decades of sadistic terror perpetrated upon Palestinians. After all, he's a man who takes issue with hypocrisy.
Edit: It appears a hacker or Hamas has removed said posts.
Eta: the overt genocide has been taking place for a month+ now but there were 1001 atrocities committed upon Palestinians by the Israeli government/military for years and years before all this too. Correct me if I’m wrong Pale Horse, but I don’t recall you ever posting about such atrocities in the political thread or wanting to engage in Convo about this at all pre October 7??
Of course Pale Horse has acknowledged/posted repeatedly in the past about Israel's decades of sadistic terror perpetrated upon Palestinians. After all, he's a man who takes issue with hypocrisy.
Edit: It appears a hacker or Hamas has removed said posts.
I can't say I remember this subject ever being discussed in the politics thread before, certainly not to this extent. There's a reason this thread didn't exist until after the events of 10/7.
You were able to find two posts that were sympathetic to the loss of Israeli lives the day after the event, I appreciate that there was some acknowledgement of the massacre that took place, but I disagree with your assessment that two posts constitutes "plenty of people". And yes, there were some additional posts made several days later, as the discussion went on, and myself and a few other posters pointed out the relative lack of condemnation for the loss of innocent Israeli lives
Do you think pro-Palestinian identifying members of this board wanted Hamas to wage a 9/11 level attack on civilians? THAT is fucking deranged.
You were able to find two posts that were sympathetic to the loss of Israeli lives the day after the event, I appreciate that there was some acknowledgement of the massacre that took place, but I disagree with your assessment that two posts constitutes "plenty of people". And yes, there were some additional posts made several days later, as the discussion went on, and myself and a few other posters pointed out the relative lack of condemnation for the loss of innocent Israeli lives
Do you think pro-Palestinian identifying members of this board wanted Hamas to wage a 9/11 level attack on civilians? THAT is fucking deranged.
No, I don't think that. I'm not sure what in the post you quoted would lead you to believe that.
Do you think pro-Palestinian identifying members of this board wanted Hamas to wage a 9/11 level attack on civilians? THAT is fucking deranged.
No, I don't think that. I'm not sure what in the post you quoted would lead you to believe that.
well if that isn’t what you think then what is the fucking isssssue dude? If you had reason to believe us pro Palestinian posters literally were out here celebrating October 7th in any capacity then of course you’d have all the reason to be appalled by us. But it seems like your Big Issue is simply that we haven’t condemned it in the right way/words or the right amount or that we aren’t still returning to October 7th as main point of convo… and I just, yeah, don’t really know what more to say to you on this matter. You seem convinced we are cold and heartless, and we (or some of us, not trying to speak for all) remain convinced that your discomfort with focusing the convo on the current, ACTIVE ethnic cleansing of Palestinians is v telling.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
No, I don't think that. I'm not sure what in the post you quoted would lead you to believe that.
well if that isn’t what you think then what is the fucking isssssue dude? If you had reason to believe us pro Palestinian posters literally were out here celebrating October 7th in any capacity then of course you’d have all the reason to be appalled by us. But it seems like your Big Issue is simply that we haven’t condemned it in the right way/words or the right amount or that we aren’t still returning to October 7th as main point of convo… and I just, yeah, don’t really know what more to say to you on this matter. You seem convinced we are cold and heartless, and we (or some of us, not trying to speak for all) remain convinced that your discomfort with focusing the convo on the current, ACTIVE ethnic cleansing of Palestinians is v telling.
I believe I have already stated as clearly as I possibly can what posts (or non-posts) I have taken issue with, I don't think trying to defend or explain my position again is worthwhile at this point. I don't need you to return to October 7th, and I've also stated that I encourage the discussion about the current situation in Gaza to continue. If someone posts something I take issue with, I will continue to speak up.
You were able to find two posts that were sympathetic to the loss of Israeli lives the day after the event, I appreciate that there was some acknowledgement of the massacre that took place, but I disagree with your assessment that two posts constitutes "plenty of people". And yes, there were some additional posts made several days later, as the discussion went on, and myself and a few other posters pointed out the relative lack of condemnation for the loss of innocent Israeli lives
Do you think pro-Palestinian identifying members of this board wanted Hamas to wage a 9/11 level attack on civilians? THAT is fucking deranged.
idk about this board but I think there are plenty of ppl who think this and if u think Israel is an illegitimate state that illegally settled on stolen lands it’s very easy to see why ppl would think it’s a reasonable thing to do to “fight back”
Can someone be Jewish and still grieve the loss of innocent lives in Palestine? Yes Can someone be Palestinian and still grieve the loss of innocent lives in Israel? Yes Can someone be neither Jewish nor Palestinian and sill grieve the loss of innocent lives on both sides? Yes
If we try to quantify whose loss is worse and fight over it back and forth every day, it's such a waste of energy and time.
Go and out show someone you love them. Do a kind deed. Pay it forward. Kiss your loved ones. Anything but this.
on a separate note, The Guardian has gravely disappointed me in all of this; their headlines & content have mostly been despicable. I know I shouldn't have thought a UK news source would be UN-disappointing in their coverage of this, but I have loved Guardian's super progressive approach to enviro news over the years, so it is just....oof.
Yes because the "diplomatic risks for Israel" are obviously the most important thing to harp on re: what's happening to the al-Shifa hospital right now. Not the fact that three newborns died in the hospital yesterday due to lack of electricity and ability for the employees to give proper, safe care. Not because patients are increasingly coming down with infection due to the toxic unsanitory state brought on by said lack of electricity and other imperative resources for basic healthcare to occur. Not the fact that the healthcare employees are having to choose between letting the patients remain severely dehydrated or giving them unsafe drinking water.
Nope, instead Guardian is focusing on quotes like, “In this war we have to dismantle the elements of Hamas that will prevent Hamas from becoming a military threat again or a government again."
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
g a b f r a b
Showerless Shakedown Vendor Sasha Fierce
Post by g a b f r a b on Nov 13, 2023 10:14:47 GMT -5
I guess they're running outta children to exterminate as Israel's turned to the second worst tier of terrorists: quadriplegics and the elderly. Granted, this isn't as horrific as ripping up a piece of paper, but perhaps it's close.
I guess they're running outta children to exterminate as Israel's turned to the second worst tier of terrorists: quadriplegics and the elderly. Granted, this isn't as horrific as ripping up a piece of paper, but perhaps it's close.
Did you ever consider for a moment that the sniper referenced in the Doctors Without Borders tweet might be Hamas militant? Do you think that the IDF are the only ones putting civilians in Gaza in harms way?
Post by SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal on Nov 13, 2023 10:51:16 GMT -5
Could be the side with a history of snipers shooting civilians. Which also happens to be the side destroying the entire Gaza Strip. Bombing doctors, journalists, UN workers, etc.
Or it could be a random Hamas guy. That’s also equally valid.
Could be the side with a history of snipers shooting civilians. Which also happens to be the side destroying the entire Gaza Strip. Bombing doctors, journalists, UN workers, etc.
Or it could be a random Hamas guy. That’s also equally valid.
Yes, very interesting point.
Hamas has a military base within Al Shifa hospital. They are also much more entrenched in Gaza City, and it has been well documented they are using snipers in and around the area of the hospital. This isn't really a stretch.
Could be the side with a history of snipers shooting civilians. Which also happens to be the side destroying the entire Gaza Strip. Bombing doctors, journalists, UN workers, etc.
Or it could be a random Hamas guy. That’s also equally valid.
Yes, very interesting point.
Hamas has a military base within Al Shifa hospital. They are also much more entrenched in Gaza City, and it has been well documented they are using snipers in and around the area of the hospital. This isn't really a stretch.
why would they shoot into a building they have a military base in
Hamas has a military base within Al Shifa hospital. They are also much more entrenched in Gaza City, and it has been well documented they are using snipers in and around the area of the hospital. This isn't really a stretch.
why would they shoot into a building they have a military base in
I'm no expert in military strategy but if there was an opposing army trying to enter your base of operations it might make sense to try and deter them. Setting up snipers in and around the base is a no brainer.
why would they shoot into a building they have a military base in
I'm no expert in military strategy but if there was an opposing army trying to enter your base of operations it might make sense to try and deter them. Setting up snipers in and around the base is a no brainer.
setting up a perimeter of snipers but having them face inwards lmao
