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I found this in my interweb meanderings. It's supposedly by a writer for Bad Robot. It makes alot of good sense......
Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John Adam's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...
First ... The Island:
It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.
Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.
Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.
Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.
In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...
Now...
Sideways World:
Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.
The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.
It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.
How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.
But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.
They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).
A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.
For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer.
Also the MiB v. Jacob/protect the island!! storyline seems kinda pointless when you consider the show's message.
Maybe, but Christian told Jack the time they spent on the island was the most important time of their lives, and they wouldn't have been brought together without the Jacob/MiB/island storyline. The island doesn't turn out to be as central to the plot as we thought it would be, but still seems pretty important to the story to me.
I was loving the finale until the last half an hour last night as I was watching it. Then, I was kind of miffed because it seemed like such a cop out. After it had time to sink in though, I've decided that I really like the ending and perhaps I was being cynical at first.
The amount of commercials didn't help. It really put a damper on the emotional scenes. Though Target's ads were brilliant, I cannot wait to watch it again commercial free.
I was so happy my girl Kate redeemed herself. I've always rooted for her not for the character that she was but for the character she could have been. She was such a badass in the beginning and then became Most Hated.
I wasn't mad at the Sayid/Shannon pairing but I didn't love it either. I just pictured him with Nadia, though I understood that they needed a story for Shannon to become enlightened. Now, I think I might actually like the Sayid/Shannon pairing. If the Island was the most important part of their lives, like Christian said, then it makes sense he would end up with Shannon.
I do wish they would have thought of a way to tie in Micheal and Walt to the sideways timeline. I understand that outside reasons made this not possible but it makes me sad that poor Michael is out there on the Island still, whispering "WALLLLLLT! MY SON!"
For anyone who might be wondering, I read that the actor who played Mr. Eko was indeed asked to come back for the finale but asked for five times the amount of money they offered him. I think it sucks if that's true and it sucks even more that that info was released in the first place.
Also the MiB v. Jacob/protect the island!! storyline seems kinda pointless when you consider the show's message.
Maybe, but Christian told Jack the time they spent on the island was the most important time of their lives, and they wouldn't have been brought together without the Jacob/MiB/island storyline. The island doesn't turn out to be as central to the plot as we thought it would be, but still seems pretty important to the story to me.
It seemed that in season 4 the focus of the show turned to mysteries surrounding the island with Ben v Widmore being the main conflict. Then in season 5, the focus of the show was almost entirely on the island skipping through time, then the 1977 plot to create the alternate universe, and fLocke v Jacob. Lost seemed to be building up MiB v Jacob as the main conflict.
If the finale and Lost in general really was about the characters, their connections, and their journey, then why spend the latter half of the show focused on other characters and external conflict? It seems to me like the writer of Lost did a terrible job splitting up the show's story.
S1- Characters, with island/mysteries as plot devices S2- Characters, with island/mysteries as plot devices S3- Characters, with island/mysteries as plot devices S4- Mix S5- Island/Mysteries as main conflict S6 (Island timeline) - Island Mysteries as main conflict S6 (Purgatory timeline) - Characters
Post by kingofcheezwiz on May 25, 2010 4:05:18 GMT -5
Wolf at the door, I really think you're delving too far into this. At the end, I think the writers told us all to take a chill pill and realize that this was the story of one mans salvation. Since season 1 (or was this in 2?), when Jack gets beaten up because his friend is being beaten up, we've been trying to get Jack to let go. Hell, even his father told him in the next scene he needs to let go. This whole journey has been about one man. Yes, all the other characters developed and became their own, but this was Jack's story. The original trilogy wasn't Han's, or Leia's, or Darth Vader's. It was Luke's. LOST is Jack's journey. The other people and situations are circumstantial. That's how I see it. It's all open for interpretation to anyone!
A Thieve's Parade 2/24 Conspirator 2/26 Kevin Smith 3/11 Keller 3/17 Papadosio 3/18 JJ Grey 3/25 Bela Fleck/Edgar Meyer 3/26 Toubab Krewe 3/27 O'Death 4/11 Budos Band 4/22 EOTO 4/28 Summer Camp 5/6-29 All Good
JHOinTN
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Resident Prince Licker
Dearly Beloved, We are Gathered Here Today to Get Through This Thing Called Life
A Thieve's Parade 2/24 Conspirator 2/26 Kevin Smith 3/11 Keller 3/17 Papadosio 3/18 JJ Grey 3/25 Bela Fleck/Edgar Meyer 3/26 Toubab Krewe 3/27 O'Death 4/11 Budos Band 4/22 EOTO 4/28 Summer Camp 5/6-29 All Good
i felt that the episode was so long, but to be honest not that much actually "happened". then i read on the internet that there were 45 minutes of commercials and it made more sense.
i was hoping for a much more super natural aspect, i.e. a false alternate mirage mind-trick reality not some spiritual limbo/heaven crap.
i liked the end pairings of the couples, kate/jack, juliette/sawyer, sayid/shannon.
oh jack. i knew you'd save the day. what a stud. not ashamed to admit i was bawling when vincent laid down next to him while he died.
i also feel that we could insert all sorts of scenarios and we won't really know what it actually means unless the writers answered every single question. and they probably don't even know all the answers themselves.
Last Edit: May 25, 2010 22:04:18 GMT -5 by EAP - Back to Top
Post by flymordecai on May 26, 2010 4:21:30 GMT -5
eap said:
i was hoping for a much more super natural aspect, i.e. a false alternate mirage mind-trick reality not some spiritual limbo/heaven crap.
Yeah I kinda expected/wanted something along those lines. But in the end I loved it, just wish the episode had eased up on the Religious imagery. And driveshaft should have played You All Everybody.
I just finished watching it. I'm so glad I had work that night and didn't watch it with commercials.
So many memorable scenes, I think my favorite would have to be Locke and Ben's exchange.
What type of supernatural ending were you guys hoping for? Aliens? I'm curious. Lost has had plenty of religious themes throughout it's run and it kind of seemed to me that it would play a big part in the ending. A supernatural ending would just seem out of place.
Hey, did any of you catch this great foreshadowing from Season 5?!
In The Incident, when Sawyer, Juliet, and Kate stumble upon Bernard, Rose, and Vincent living in retirement on the island they tell them about the bomb and Bernard says,
"So we die...we just care about being together, that's all that matters in The End"
So, raise your hand if you’ve spent the past three days obsessing over what was purgatory, what was real-life, for the past six years on Lost. No doubt, for many of you, a big part of your understanding has included an interpretation of the series’ final scenes of plane wreckage strewn across an empty beach, nothing but the white noise of crashing waves cutting through the deadly silence. Well, turns out ABC just threw those final scenes in there as a “visual aid,” and they didn’t actually have anything to do with the show’s plot. ABC told the LA Times that the network – and not executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse — added those shots of the beach simply to soften the transition from the emotional ending of the series finale to the 11 p.m. news and didn’t realize that viewers who had been obsessing over every detail of every scene of every episode might have considered the series’ final images as having some meaning. “”The images shown during the end credits of the Lost finale, which included shots of Oceanic 815 on a deserted beach, were not part of the final story but were a visual aid to allow the viewer to decompress before heading into the news,” an ABC spokesperson told the Times.
What type of supernatural ending were you guys hoping for? Aliens? I'm curious. Lost has had plenty of religious themes throughout it's run and it kind of seemed to me that it would play a big part in the ending. A supernatural ending would just seem out of place.
Doc Jensen's analysis is up! There are two parts, so it's extra long this time, but well worth the read, especially if you are feeling unsure of how you feel about the finale:
What type of supernatural ending were you guys hoping for? Aliens? I'm curious. Lost has had plenty of religious themes throughout it's run and it kind of seemed to me that it would play a big part in the ending. A supernatural ending would just seem out of place.
more sixth sense, less catholic.
I think it would have been really lame/obvious if the whole island was purgatory. People had been saying that from the beginning. At least with the flash sideways, it made you think it was just what life would have been like had they not crashed.
It wasn't very catholic to me. But then again, I'm not the most catholic person, so maybe I missed some of the imagery. But even the church they were in at the end had all of the major religions represented.
Post by lordrockinhood on May 28, 2010 9:11:57 GMT -5
NEWS IN BRIEF
'Lost' Possibly Still Airing In Parallel Dimension, Desperate Fans Report May 24, 2010 | ISSUE 46•21 NEW YORK—Desperate fans of the recently concluded television series Lost are speculating that the program is continuing on in a parallel dimension somewhere, and that alternate versions of showrunners Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse are currently writing new episodes of the series. "It's very possible that a sideways world running concurrent to our own exists, and that a facsimile of myself is happy, fulfilled, and already gearing up for the season seven premiere of Lost," said 36-year-old Kevin Molinaro, who, along with more than 20 million other hopeless fans, has recently booked multiple roundtrip tickets from Los Angeles to Australia in hopes of traveling through a vortex in the space-time continuum. "I just have to find a way to get there. We all do." According to data from Google analytics, searches for "How to build/detonate/use a hydrogen bomb to open up a multidimensional wormhole" have increased 10 millionfold since the episode aired.
;D
