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Hurley stayed behind to protect the island and asked Ben to be his Number 2 (basically his Alpert). The exchange between them in front of the church was supposed to show us that they protected the island for some time. How long isn't clear, but you have to wonder if Hurley and Ben stayed on the island for as long as Jacob and Alpert had.
Ok, that's what I figured. But what about Desmond? Was he the #3? Because he woulda been my #2.
Beautiful episode. All of the moments where the flash sideways characters were enlightened were great.
The reverse-pilot scene where Jack dies with Vincent by his side is one of the saddest things I've ever seen.
At first I thought the whole sideways-purgatory deal was a little bit of a cop out, but the fact that all the characters were there essentially waiting on each other to move on is a great touch and sums up the greater theme of the show, Live together, die alone.
-When I Hear My Name -Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground -Blue Orchid -Passive Manipulation -Red Rain -Death Letter -My Doorbell -Hotel Yorba -Same Boy You've Always Known -Lovesick -Little Ghost -We're Going to Be Friends -The Hardest Button to Button -Black Math -The Nurse -I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself
Encore: -Ball and Biscuit -Seven Nation Army -Screwdriver
Post by Mean Mr. Mustard on May 24, 2010 9:33:41 GMT -5
I think they did at least have the island portion of the ending written. Jack giving his life as the savior of the island and he dies in the place where we first see him. Eye closes show over. Im sure that has been planned from the beginning.
The Purgatory flash sideways i doubt was written with season 1 and 2 the way they said the ending was. I am assuming they took the island is purgatory theories over the years and instead used what seems as reality is purgatory. I went back and read articles with JJ Abrams, Cuse and Lindelof and they always said the island wasn't hell or purgatory.
I took it that surviving characters on the island and on the plane went on to live life and the time eriod or when of the purgatory flash sideways is irrelavent
I was initially dissatisfied with the ending. They are all dead? BS! But upon reflection, I realized that was not what the ending was about.
The alt-reality was about their journey after their eventual death. They did not all die on the island, and they did not all die at the same time. But the alt-reality was what happened to them after they did finally all die, and how they met up to continue on with their journey.
Post by hibouxdufromage on May 24, 2010 10:12:08 GMT -5
^ It took me a few minutes of staring at the celing fan blades last night to finally figure that out. The whole "there is no Now here" bit in the funeral parlor. It also hit me that we've been getting Joseph Campbellrolled for 6 years, without knowing who the classic hero is until the last shot. The entire thing was about Jack's doubt/insecurity/collapse/redemption/martyrdom.
I've been a fan of the show since the beginning, and was completely satisfied with The End. I was emotionally immersed throughout the episode, and I can't really think of a better way to end it. Of course there are many viewers who wish they had "more answers" to the island's mysteries. But, some things are better left unanswered. Sometimes the more things are explained, the less impact they have in the long run (midichlorians anyone?). Aspects of Lost, like life itself, will forever remain a mystery.
while it was happening I thought that Christian's exchange with Jack was really confusing but it actually explained a lot. He tells Jack that everything he'd ever experienced was real (everything we've been watching for 6 years) and the "no now here" sorted out why characters like Penny and Hurley were there. I just thought it was proper for a show like LOST to end with a twist. We all expected the two timelines were time travel related and would somehow merge but I don't think anyone saw that coming. I think saying it was a cop-out that they were all dead is unfair. It wasn't like they used it as some excuse to not explain stuff. Everything we saw on the island was real, the sideways world was just showing us that the reason these people always seemed inevitably linked was because they really meant something to each other and would all pass on together. The concept that some characters like Ben and Ana Lucia weren't a part of that particular group that needed each other was cool. Ben needed to pass on with the people that were important to his life and he hadn't found peace with them yet.
I just thought it was such a satisfying end to a series. In a show that was all about the decisions you make, it seemed that in this final installment all the good guys were completely lovable and knew what they had to do. Jack knew he would be a martyr. Hurley stepped up. Desmond also put himself on the line to save the shows two most innocent character. The others who survived also all worked together. They managed to give the show a happy ending and let the island live on. They only had to kill off one good guy, but in the end that didn't matter because they showed that we all die, some before you and some after and it wasn't as sad that Jack died that particular day.
I came away from the show thinking that we all die sooner or later and that we just have to remember the value of the ONE life we were given and accept the hardships we did have. Overall the most important thing was not just other people, but specifically those chosen to go through it all along side us... on our team.
Post by questionablesanity on May 24, 2010 10:57:08 GMT -5
After sleeping on it. I'm impressed. But it left me wanting more.
I cried several times during the enlightenment scenes. JAck and Kate, Juliet and Sawyer, Sun and Jin, etc... I can't believe that I cried during Jack and Kate's good bye but once she said I love you, I was almost sobbing. Glad I didn't go watch it at the bar as I had originally planned.
It was nice to see Christian explain everything at the end. I've always loved his character and anything that has to do with a father/son relationship always pulls at my heart strings.
I loved Ben and Locke's last encounter. At first I thought it was cheesy the way Locke got out of his wheelchair but then I realized that he never needed it because it was his own reality that he made up.
I cheered to myself once Richard and Lapidus were both found alive.
It's def a show that I'm going to miss. I look forward to the next projects that Terry Oquinn and Michael Emerson partake in next.
There is no way that the writers had the sideways timeline/purgatory from the beginning. I agree that they knew Jack would save the day, they even alluded to it when Flocke said Jack was the obvious choice. Kudos for Hurley taking the job and asking Ben for help.
Oh and Fuck You Jimmy Kimmel for the "alternate endings". I'm really tired after staying up to watch that crap.
A Thieve's Parade 2/24 Conspirator 2/26 Kevin Smith 3/11 Keller 3/17 Papadosio 3/18 JJ Grey 3/25 Bela Fleck/Edgar Meyer 3/26 Toubab Krewe 3/27 O'Death 4/11 Budos Band 4/22 EOTO 4/28 Summer Camp 5/6-29 All Good
Post by nitetimeritetime on May 24, 2010 11:27:10 GMT -5
On second thought, maybe Desmond's fate is implied in the exchange between Ben and Hurley on the island. When Hurley is upset that people can't leave the island, Ben tells him that's just the way Jacob ran things, and that Hurley could do things differently. Maybe we're supposed to assume that Hurley gets Desmond back to Penny?
Post by questionablesanity on May 24, 2010 11:31:49 GMT -5
I don't think they implied anything. I think it's left open for speculation. But he probably did get back because Hurley only mentions Ben as his #2, no mention made of Desmond.
A Thieve's Parade 2/24 Conspirator 2/26 Kevin Smith 3/11 Keller 3/17 Papadosio 3/18 JJ Grey 3/25 Bela Fleck/Edgar Meyer 3/26 Toubab Krewe 3/27 O'Death 4/11 Budos Band 4/22 EOTO 4/28 Summer Camp 5/6-29 All Good
To answer a previous question, Michael and Walt weren't there because Michael was stuck on the island for killing Libby and Ana Lucia. At least that's what he said to Hurley when he also explained the whispers. Walt just kind of got written off the show because he went from looking 6 years old to 26 years old. Funny that a show can "explain" time travel, smoke monsters, etc. but can't explain a growth spurt.
I came away from the show thinking that we all die sooner or later and that we just have to remember the value of the ONE life we were given and accept the hardships we did have. Overall the most important thing was not just other people, but specifically those chosen to go through it all along side us... on our team.
So very well put. And the fact that a TV show can teach us this is quite remarkable in this day and age.
I wish they would have wrapped up things with Desmond. I don't want to speculate; I want to KNOW that he made it back to Penny and Charlie! Theirs was my favorite "love" storyline on the show.
To answer a previous question, Michael and Walt weren't there because Michael was stuck on the island for killing Libby and Ana Lucia. At least that's what he said to Hurley when he also explained the whispers. Walt just kind of got written off the show because he went from looking 6 years old to 26 years old. Funny that a show can "explain" time travel, smoke monsters, etc. but can't explain a growth spurt.
So Michael wasn't in their "purgatory" because he was stuck on the island because of the things he did? They could have at least told us why, like they did with Ana-Lucia. I mean, Ben did some bad things too, but he was invited to be there but wisely turned it down. (And what about Mr. Ecko? Guess he didn't matter enough?)
Oh yeah, where the hell were Cindy and the "kids"???
Post by StreetBum87 on May 24, 2010 12:53:00 GMT -5
jack told hurley to help desmond get home and ben did say the bit about how jacob ran things. im gonna say they got him home. probably with the sail boat sawyer and kate used.
On second thought, maybe Desmond's fate is implied in the exchange between Ben and Hurley on the island. When Hurley is upset that people can't leave the island, Ben tells him that's just the way Jacob ran things, and that Hurley could do things differently. Maybe we're supposed to assume that Hurley gets Desmond back to Penny?
I think your assumption is correct, and everything i've read today seems to echo this thinking.
Most TV shows have dissapointing endings, becasue its somehting we watch over several years and we get overattached to the plot and characters and it is impossible for a show to fully satisfy any fan after years of dedication for the rest of their lives, but I feel Lost did about as good a job as could be done. No one will ever be fully satisfied. Also, I salute the creators for deciding when the show was going to end and sticking with it. They never allowed to the show to become stale or tired. I was at times confusing and even infuriating, but always thought provoking and creative. The writers and creators deserve a huge round of applause.
To keep the thread going past these next few days discussing the finale, after reflecting on the end who was everyone's favorite character? Did it change with the show ending/the way it ended? Who do you think was the best character? Favorite episode, etc. Keep throwing questions out if you all want.
I cant pick out a favorite episode off of the top of my head, Ill have to think about it. A few that stick out are Through the looking glass and Constant (season four when desmond was going back and forth between the past and present).
I would give desmond the nod as my favorite character, but Sayid was always close behind. Also I loved Mr. Eko's character. Miles and Lapidus were my favorite minor characters. Only complaint with the finale was that Jack said "see you in another life Brother." Desmond should have said it the scottish accent makes it sound so much cooler.
I will probably always think that Ben was the best character. Michael Emerson was unbelievable playing him.
A Thieve's Parade 2/24 Conspirator 2/26 Kevin Smith 3/11 Keller 3/17 Papadosio 3/18 JJ Grey 3/25 Bela Fleck/Edgar Meyer 3/26 Toubab Krewe 3/27 O'Death 4/11 Budos Band 4/22 EOTO 4/28 Summer Camp 5/6-29 All Good
JHOinTN
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Resident Prince Licker
Dearly Beloved, We are Gathered Here Today to Get Through This Thing Called Life
John Locke was my favorite character; he was the most emotional and complex, and Terry O'Quinn was kick-ass in playing the part. He completely deserved his Emmy. Ben Linus would be second, and Desmond is third. I also enjoyed Mr. Ecko and Charlie. All of the female characters got on my last nerve, except Rose.
Favorite episode is hands-down "Through the Looking Glass". That episode had the best twist of any Lost episode, and I'm glad it did because season 3 is the weakest season, in my opinion. (don't get me going on the Dharma Initiative again!)
An aside for the ladies, my eye-candy ranking: Sayid, Richard Alpert, Desmond ;D
I'm very happy with the finale, it was a sad ending but also very full of hope for the life after this one.I'm still thinking about it now and I'm sure I will be mulling it over for the next week or so. A prime time drama that makes Me think has always been what I loved about LOST.
Favorite Characters: John Locke, Hurley, Charlie, Desmond
I thought the finale really reflected the essence of the show. It brought some closure but left it open to interpretation and discussion. If it gave straightforward answers with no room for interpretation, then it would not be the Lost we knew and love, it would just be another simple-themed TV sci-fi/drama finale, like Battlestar Galactica.
It is hard to pick a favorite episode. The Constant is up there though, so is Walkabout. Dave is a good stand-alone episode. Heck, even Expose, a filler episode was amazing for just its entertainment value. Every season finale was just great too. One of my favorite moments was how Ben linked their fantasy world to reality by telling Jack that the Red Sox won the World Series.
I'm wondering about everyone's thoughts on David, Jack's son. In the flash sideways he had a son but later Locke says that he doesn't have a son. Obviously, in his real life, Jack never had a son and Locke knew this after having his realization of his self. I'm not entirely sure why the writers had Jack have a son in the flash sideways though. He was the only new character in the last season that had a strong connection to some main characters, Jack, Juliet, even Claire. Was it just to show that it really wasn't their real life but a sort of purgatory/afterlife or did David have a bigger purpose? Did he represent something? Or does anyone even know of an event in the series that would suggest that Jack could have actually had a son.
I'm wondering about everyone's thoughts on David, Jack's son. In the flash sideways he had a son but later Locke says that he doesn't have a son. Obviously, in his real life, Jack never had a son and Locke knew this after having his realization of his self. I'm not entirely sure why the writers had Jack have a son in the flash sideways though. He was the only new character in the last season that had a strong connection to some main characters, Jack, Juliet, even Claire. Was it just to show that it really wasn't their real life but a sort of purgatory/afterlife or did David have a bigger purpose? Did he represent something? Or does anyone even know of an event in the series that would suggest that Jack could have actually had a son.
I think David is more of a representation of what Jack wanted: to be a good father; a better father than what he had. I think that was the whole purpose of the flash sideways/purgatory: to give the characters the lives that they wanted and to help them see their true purpose.
Post by awolfatthedoor on May 24, 2010 14:53:22 GMT -5
It really bothered me how they threw away the emotional connections from the early part of the side-flash season because they were just a device to get the characters over their emotional problems.
I'm wondering about everyone's thoughts on David, Jack's son. In the flash sideways he had a son but later Locke says that he doesn't have a son. Obviously, in his real life, Jack never had a son and Locke knew this after having his realization of his self. I'm not entirely sure why the writers had Jack have a son in the flash sideways though. He was the only new character in the last season that had a strong connection to some main characters, Jack, Juliet, even Claire. Was it just to show that it really wasn't their real life but a sort of purgatory/afterlife or did David have a bigger purpose? Did he represent something? Or does anyone even know of an event in the series that would suggest that Jack could have actually had a son.
I think David is more of a representation of what Jack wanted: to be a good father; a better father than what he had. I think that was the whole purpose of the flash sideways/purgatory: to give the characters the lives that they wanted and to help them see their true purpose.
I agree 100% with this. A lot of the charaters in the flash sideways had something that it seemed they coveted. Examples are Desmond had the acceptance and admiration of Widmore, Sawyer wasn't like the "real" Sawyer, Locke had his fiance back (Helen i think) stand out.
It really bothered me how they threw away the emotional connections from the early part of the side-flash season because they were just a device to get the characters over their emotional problems.
It really bothered me how they threw away the emotional connections from the early part of the side-flash season because they were just a device to get the characters over their emotional problems.
i thought it was a great finale. only part i didn't like was the final fight between jack and mocke. i feel they tried too hard to make it epic, but it just came off rather silly IMO. and very anticlimactic when kate shot mocke in the back. that's my only complaint.
i thought the wrapup was very well done in the church while we see jack on the island go back to the bamboo field to die. the explanation of the alt-reality was very ambiguous but i'd rather it be that way than for them to just spell it out for us. that way i can keep talking about it with my friends for a long time.
keep in mind that this was a show that has been in writing and development for six years. everyone i know that has stuck with the show since the beginning or for a long period of time approved of the ending. my roommate on the other hand just started LOST about 6 weeks ago from season 1 and watched all six seasons to be caught up for the finale last night. and he was thoroughly disappointed. he didn't get the point of dharma or jacob and the MiB. i think he was just pissed that he spent so much of his time being addicted to a show and then just have it end like that. good for him that he discovered breaking bad.
Ah. I thought of David kind of like JHOinTn was saying. I think David was a representation of the kind of father/son relationship Jack had always wanted. He had to let go of that and accept the father/son relationship he actually had (with Christian) before he could realize he was dead and move on. So Jack had to throw that emotional connection away.
Post by awolfatthedoor on May 24, 2010 17:45:18 GMT -5
I get that the Lost writers were trying to make a point about letting go with the entire side-flash narrative, but it just doesn't sit right with me. I realize the entire side-flash narrative was about letting go and realizing lost connection, but it seems like the individual side-flash scenes will lose their weight if/when I rewatch Season 6. Does that make more sense?
Post by nitetimeritetime on May 24, 2010 18:09:29 GMT -5
Sure, that makes sense, but I think I'll be more interested in those scenes next time just to see what kinds of symbolic interactions I missed.
Speaking of scenes losing weight on a rewatch, I'm planning to watch the whole thing again this summer. I'm not looking forward to the Michael/Walt storyline that seems so important but is apparently meaningless.
