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Also, I have no idea where you get the idea that Cliff Lee is injury-prone: since 2004, he's started at least 31 games every year (not counting playoffs) except for 2010 (28 games) and 2007 (16 games, but he spent a good chunk of that year in the minors when he had weird control problems).
Just to hit on a few.....
--Off season foot surger for bone spur that had broken loose in early 2010
--Placed on DL for 15 days 2010 for pre-season abd strain. Said abd strain was used as his excuse for control issues at his suspension hearing in April. Note: he had drilled a dude in the back during a simulated game earlier in spring training, so he had been having control issues anyways.
--Back injury in Sept 2010.
--His 2007 demotion to Buffalo was not only due to "weird control problems" but also multiple injuries. If CLEVELAND is sending you to the minors, then you are really having some problems.
Please note, I also said LESS injury prone. Since we are clearly going to travel down the road of semantics here, I shall rephrase as less history of significant injuries, although the above may be enough to support my injury prone statement. Better?
And I see your game starting stats and raise you the fact that just because I'm sick, doesn't mean I call off work everytime. But the older I get, the harder it is to bounce back as easily.
Also add "History of control issues" to my list, as well as "closet Royal fan due to being a Kansas girl, so Greinke would be MY preferred acquisition".
Oh the Yankees wanted him, no denying that at all. However, as stated, I would rather they pick up Greinke.
Please and Thank you.
And I do agree with you Nodepression. I fear he would struggle in NY. However, it is looking bleak that we will sign him anyways.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
nodepression
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Inforoo's Waffle Czar & Baron Von Hipster
--His 2007 demotion to Buffalo was not only due to "weird control problems" but also multiple injuries. If CLEVELAND is sending you to the minors, then you are really having some problems.
While this is normally true, 2007 was the year they almost went to the World Series but lost to Boston.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
nodepression
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Inforoo's Waffle Czar & Baron Von Hipster
These are my two go to theme dinners for these teams during division series games (What can I say, I'm a girl, I have to do something to jazz up the games at my house. And no one has ever complained.)
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
Post by ziggyandthemonkeys on Dec 15, 2010 9:18:52 GMT -5
Similar to what I was thinking, the Yankees inked Mark Prior. He must be healthier at this point than Webb. I still see them making a big trade during the season, and definitely not for Greinke.
Post by A$AP Rosko on Dec 15, 2010 12:35:42 GMT -5
I'm going to greatly enjoy drinking in the Yankees' failure when they trade a couple valuable young prospects for Big Z, only to realize that he is in no way temperamentally suited to pitch on NY. He's too sensitive and tempered; he'd be like the Cryin' Ryan Leaf of MLB pitchers if he pitched in NY.
Also, no chance in hell the Yankees get Greinke this year. They don't have the needed pieces; the Royals aren't just going to GIVE him away, at least not until a year before he hits free agency.
Quacking Dusty Baker, man. He ruined Prior and Wood, and now the Yankees are giving them sympathy contracts. Wood actually ended up doing really well with the Yankees, though.
Post by ziggyandthemonkeys on Dec 15, 2010 12:55:01 GMT -5
Big Z is who I was thinking as well, and is a name being tossed around obviously. I think its 50/50 whether he could hold up to the NY media and pressure cooker. He's not like Greinke in that he has severe anxiety issues, he just seems to be an all around crazy guy. Every now and then those guys get it together when they are sent to a good team with some stability, ala Ron Artest or Josh Hamilton. I think Zambrano could be in a good situation to succeed and be focused baring any injuries if he went to NY. It would also be the same pitching coach for him, which I am not sure is a good or bad thing.
Post by awolfatthedoor on Dec 15, 2010 13:00:40 GMT -5
Zambrano? Not a single team would sign him to the contract he has right now. No one will trade for him. He would get killed as a part of the Yanks and would have at least a 5+ ERA.
I can't wait for Dusty Baker to ruin all the Reds' young arms. Dusty is my favorite manager <3 He's going to destroy to Central division rivals
Big Z is who I was thinking as well, and is a name being tossed around obviously. I think its 50/50 whether he could hold up to the NY media and pressure cooker. He's not like Greinke in that he has severe anxiety issues, he just seems to be an all around crazy guy. Every now and then those guys get it together when they are sent to a good team with some stability, ala Ron Artest or Josh Hamilton. I think Zambrano could be in a good situation to succeed and be focused baring any injuries if he went to NY. It would also be the same pitching coach for him, which I am not sure is a good or bad thing.
Josh Hamilton is in no way, shape, or form an accurate comparison. He cleaned up WELL before joining the Rangers, and started playing really, really well for the Reds before being traded to the Rangers. And the Rangers weren't really a good team before he got there. And Ron Artest STILL has yet to pick up the triangle offense. Not that I regret us losing Ariza and signing him; he brings an added element of toughness to the Lakers. I do see your point, though. Randy Moss is a better example to me, once he joined the Pats a few years back, except with him it was more an issue of laziness than craziness. I guess MAYBE I could see Big Z doing well in NY, but I think it's exponentially more likely that he has a total meltdown there.
Post by awolfatthedoor on Dec 15, 2010 17:02:25 GMT -5
Negative prospects? This is his contract: 10:$17.875M, 11:$17.875M, 12:$18M, 13:$19.25M vesting player option. Cashman should be fired the minute he made any trade for Zambrano. Seriously what team would give Zambrano that contract right now? Now who's going to give up players for that trainwreck?
Your first link doesn't work, so I have no idea what you're relying on for Zambrano staying in Chi. I'm assuming it was the report from KFFL.com/ MLB.com that the Cubs' GM says he think Zambrano wants to stay. If anything, this article from this morning in the Chi Sun-Times suggests the opposite: www.suntimes.com/sports/2864388-419/zambrano-cubs-yankees-rothschild-pitching.html Additionally, there are just too many rumors out there to ignore. I think Z accepts a trade to NYY if it's out there.
If anyone would/could trade for Zambrano, it'd be NYY. Check his numbers from last year - solid in August, great in September/October. Since the Yankees can absolutely take on his bloated salary, they could toss a minimal prospect the Cubs' way. They NYY rotation is in shambles right now - CC is their only truly reliable starter, then maybe Hughes, Pettite is probably not coming back, Burnett is terrible...Big Z has had his problems, but look at his track record:
Even in his worst years (probably 2007-2008), he would still be a viable 4th starter, and his strong finish to last year suggest that he can still pitch, so with the dire situation on the market right now, I'd be shocked if the Yanks don't make a move for him.
Post by noeysasquatch on Dec 17, 2010 13:02:56 GMT -5
Cliff Lee returning to philly is gonna make for some good times. hopefully the phillies can sign another corner outfielder, preferably batting right, to platoon the outfield with dom brown.
also, with the return of cliff lee, the national media and espn can go suck it- no longer can they take cheap potshots at our city and fanbase. im sure people like mike wilbon and other philly haters will always bring up things like the santa clause bs, but when an athlete turns down more money to return to this city, that speaks volumes to the passion and loyalty of our fans.
Post by ziggyandthemonkeys on Dec 17, 2010 14:05:07 GMT -5
I was just thinking the opposite^, I'm already sick of all the Philly love. Things like comparing the rotation to the 93 Braves, which featured 3 future HoF'ers and Steve Avery's best season. I wouldn't even say they are markedly better than the Giants current rotation, the one that beat the Phillies only a few months ago. This is obviously a great signing, but the Phillies still have the same problems they did last year, and are unlikely to get a repeat from Halladay and Oswalt, who both had great seasons even compared to their standards, especially Oswalt who played out of his mind in Philly.
I'm not a Philly hater, but people are way overreacting to this deal.
Post by noeysasquatch on Dec 17, 2010 14:18:00 GMT -5
The Phillies signed the best free agent pitcher of the off season, a cy young award winner. What's the "overreacting"?
I agree with the point that the phils rotation is only slightly better than the giants. And this year they need to hit in the clutch, something they didn't do last year in the nlcs. and oswalt may not be as stellar as he was last year. that much is true. but how can you say the same thing about halladay? hallday is a star pitcher, theres no base to the claim that he will not repeat his success
and "all the philly love"? ive never seen it.
EDIT: i am not calling you a philly hater, just merely disagreeing with your claims/opinion/whatnot. that was in reference to the national media/espns perception of this city
Last Edit: Dec 17, 2010 14:38:18 GMT -5 by noeysasquatch - Back to Top
Post by ziggyandthemonkeys on Dec 17, 2010 14:45:44 GMT -5
I think Halladay will be a Cy Young contender as usual, but last year was pretty much his best year, so I expect a slight drop off. I'm not saying that this isn't a top 2 rotation, i'm just saying its an overreaction to be hearing things like comparing these guys to the 93 Braves.
Post by noeysasquatch on Dec 17, 2010 14:51:57 GMT -5
Gotcha. It's annoying for me to hear those comparisons as well. It's not even 2011 yet so it's def too early to compare them to the 93 braves. On paper, maybe that comparison could be made, but it means nothing until the season starts.
(What can I say, I'm a girl, I have to do something to jazz up the games at my house. And no one has ever complained.)
