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I read somewhere that Robin is a sober individual whereas, clearly, J. Tillman is not. Those Fleet Foxes tours must have been... interesting.
The Fleet Foxes live were fan-quacking-tastic. I saw them in their first month of touring, and although you could already tell that the guy behind the drums (J Tillman/Father John) had an awesome presence, the group gelled incredibly well. They didn't sex it up at all - maybe that's what the piece you read meant - but their cohesive dream-folk was one of the best shows I've ever seen. Robin (whose unmiked solo encore was terrific) and J Tillman certainly have different personalities, but such disparities are what take these types of groups to a new level, a la Richard Manuel, Joe Walsh, and Dennis Wilson.
such disparities are what take these types of groups to a new level, a la Richard Manuel, Joe Walsh, and Dennis Wilson.
LOL @ the notion that Denny Wilson took The Beach Boys "to a new level." I love Denny (and I really love Pacific Ocean Blue), but that just ain't true, man. Pet Sounds, as a starting point, was almost literally 100% Brian Wilson. Sometimes the myth doesn't match reality, but in the case of Pet Sounds, it does--Brian came up with every sound and every part of every song you hear on that album (except these brilliant lines in "Wouldn't It Be Nice": "Good night my baby, sleep tight my baby"...well done, Mike Love, you are a true visionary). He just had the other guys (including Denny) sing/play what he told them to play/sing. This is why Brian Wilson is probably the greatest musical genius we've seen since the advent of rock and roll, even greater than any Beatle. It really can't be understated.
LOL @ the notion that Denny Wilson took The Beach Boys "to a new level." I love Denny (and I really love Pacific Ocean Blue), but that just ain't true, man. Pet Sounds, as a starting point, was almost literally 100% Brian Wilson. Sometimes the myth doesn't match reality, but in the case of Pet Sounds, it does--Brian came up with every sound and every part of every song you hear on that album (except these brilliant lines in "Wouldn't It Be Nice": "Good night my baby, sleep tight my baby"...well done, Mike Love, you are a true visionary). He just had the other guys (including Denny) sing/play what he told them to play/sing. This is why Brian Wilson is probably the greatest musical genius we've seen since the advent of rock and roll, even greater than any Beatle. It really can't be understated.
source: I'm an expert on all things Beach Boys
Man, you are really smug for being so wrong all the time.
If you're such an expert on all things Beach Boys, you must surely know that it was Denny's surfing that inspired the surf songs and Denny's partying that inspired the cars and girls songs. It was Denny's Drums that brought the driving rock that the more technically accurate Ricky, Bobby, and even Hal never could. Dennis was also the band's sex symbol - making the girls as wet as the sea in his nightly rendition of You Are So Beautiful, which he co-wrote - and although he was not the brainchild of Brian's concept album era, he was the biggest encourager to Brian. While other bandmates were busy arguing and fighting for control, Denny was the one telling the public that SMiLE was so great the it made Pet Sounds sound like crap in comparison. And of course there's the fact that Dennis was the foundation low part of that legendary Wilson harmony which has never and will never be replicated and which is the indisputably the most significant trademark of the Beach Boys proper.
LOL @ the notion that Denny Wilson took The Beach Boys "to a new level." I love Denny (and I really love Pacific Ocean Blue), but that just ain't true, man. Pet Sounds, as a starting point, was almost literally 100% Brian Wilson. Sometimes the myth doesn't match reality, but in the case of Pet Sounds, it does--Brian came up with every sound and every part of every song you hear on that album (except these brilliant lines in "Wouldn't It Be Nice": "Good night my baby, sleep tight my baby"...well done, Mike Love, you are a true visionary). He just had the other guys (including Denny) sing/play what he told them to play/sing. This is why Brian Wilson is probably the greatest musical genius we've seen since the advent of rock and roll, even greater than any Beatle. It really can't be understated.
source: I'm an expert on all things Beach Boys
Man, you are really smug for being so wrong all the time.
If you're such an expert on all things Beach Boys, you must surely know that it was Denny's surfing that inspired the surf songs and Denny's partying that inspired the cars and girls songs. It was Denny's Drums that brought the driving rock that the more technically accurate Ricky, Bobby, and even Hal never could. Dennis was also the band's sex symbol - making the girls as wet as the sea in his nightly rendition of You Are So Beautiful, which he co-wrote - and although he was not the brainchild of Brian's concept album era, he was the biggest encourager to Brian. While other bandmates were busy arguing and fighting for control, Denny was the one telling the public that SMiLE was so great the it made Pet Sounds sound like crap in comparison. And of course there's the fact that Dennis was the foundation low part of that legendary Wilson harmony which has never and will never be replicated and which is the indisputably the most significant trademark of the Beach Boys proper.
Nothing you said refutes anything I said.
Just because Dennis was their mascot (again, I love Denny, and don't mean that in a demeaning way) doesn't mean that he took the band or their sound to a new level. Was his influence felt? OF COURSE. He was Brian's brother, of course his brother is going to influence him. And did he fit the band perfectly in terms of his drumming style and his vocals? Of course, that's why The Beach Boys were such a brilliant, cohesive band. Still, my key point stands: Brian Wilson was the creator of 99% of what you hear on Pet Sounds. Brian Wilson took The Beach Boys "to a new level," not Denny. As I said, this is one of the few instances where the myth matches the reality.
I will say that their "surf songs" were certainly the result of a more collaborative and democratic creative process than was behind Pet Sounds. Still, I wouldn't say that Denny took The Beach Boys "to a new level," since it's clear who the real creative force behind that band is and always was. I will agree, though, that Denny was the only person who could've filled the role he filled in that band and that Denny's drumming style and vocal style fit them like a puzzle piece.
And of course there's the fact that Dennis was the foundation low part of that legendary Wilson harmony
Mike Love (not Denny) sang the bass parts when their three- or four-part harmonies called for a bass part. Mike Love's singing voice was very versatile, as big a douche as he is/was. And,
Brian Wilson was the creator of 99% of what you hear on Pet Sounds. Brian Wilson took The Beach Boys "to a new level," not Denny. As I said, this is one of the few instances where the myth matches the reality.
You're reducing the Beach Boys to one album. The Beach Boys were a lot more than the masterpieces on Pet Sounds. Yes, Brian took the band to a new level with his arrangements and falsetto. That does not detract from the fact that Denny took the inpiration for the earlier catalogue and the vitality of the live performances to a new level again and again. Brian was a genius, but the rock n roll came first and strongest from Dennis.
I will say that their "surf songs" were certainly the result of a more collaborative and democratic creative process than was behind Pet Sounds.
It wasn't democratic at all. During the genesis of the band, it was Brian asking Dennis to describe what it was like to surf. Dennis' real life channeled through Brian's genius. Again, two pieces of a puzzle equally crucial to each other.
Mike Love (not Denny) sang the bass parts when their three- or four-part harmonies called for a bass part. Mike Love's singing voice was very versatile, as big a douche as he is/was.
Yes, Mike had the bass, but again, it was the brotherly harmonies that people associate the Beach Boys with most, and Dennis was an indispensable part of that blend.
It's not mysogynistic to state that women threw themselves at Dennis. There's an excerpt in the excellent The Real Beach Boy that recalls parties where women were laying on the floor and Dennis, from couch and without looking up to see who he was grabbing, would choose one of them blindly, have sex with them, and then set them back on the floor. Neil Young similarly recalls Dennis' lifestyle in Waging Heavy Peace, and you can hear the evidence for yourself on the fade-out of All I Want to Do, where you can hear Dennis quite clearly pleasing a woman right there in the studio.
"Drummers, eh? They can be real dark horses – think Dave Grohl and Dennis Wilson or, in this case, Josh Tillman. He was always more than the guy with the sticks in the acclaimed Fleet Foxes. His career as a singer-songwriter stayed essentially underground, though, until he adopted the moniker Father John Misty. Now he’s developing a notable cult following of his own. I confess I feel part of it."
I most certainly am not. I was using Pet Sounds as a starting point since it is obviously their magnum opus; I stated that from the very beginning. My point was that nothing you said refutes what I said (which was mostly about Pet Sounds). This is also why I ceded that their earlier songs were often the result of a more collaborative creative process than that which was behind Pet Sounds (still, Brian Wilson was the mind behind the vast majority of even their early songs).
"That does not detract from the fact that Denny took the inpiration for the earlier catalogue and the vitality of the live performances to a new level again and again. Brian was a genius, but the rock n roll came first and strongest from Dennis."
Bringing something as subjective and vague as "rock n roll" into the argument is silly.
"It wasn't democratic at all. During the genesis of the band, it was Brian asking Dennis to describe what it was like to surf. Dennis' real life channeled through Brian's genius. Again, two pieces of a puzzle equally crucial to each other."
You just described a collaborative, democratic creative process. Still, this isn't as cut-and-dry as you make it out to be. Brian was a shut-in who looked up to his brother, yes, but that isn't necessarily what made him write all those surf songs. Not to mention the fact that it had little to nothing to do with the genius melodies Brian wrote and the harmonies Brian (mostly) composed. Plain and simple, Dennis did not have a huge creative say in the writing and recording of Beach Boys songs. He just didn't. Did he influence Brian in some vague way? Like I said, of course--he was his brother. But you can't say that just because Dennis surfed that he pushed The Beach Boys "to a new level." That does not follow. That said, his input was definitely greater in the early to mid-60s than it was in the Pet Sounds era.
"Yes, Mike had the bass, but again, it was the brotherly harmonies that people associate the Beach Boys with most, and Dennis was an indispensable part of that blend."
Right, but you claimed Dennis Wilson had the bass. Which is incorrect. And as much as I hate Mike Love, Beach Boys harmonies never would've been Beach Boys harmonies without Mike Love. He had the loveliest, most versatile voice in the group. Love was the best singer in The Beach Boys.
"It's not mysogynistic to state that women threw themselves at Dennis."
The part that's misogynistic (and since you called @jeffp1717 out on his spelling a week or so ago, I'll call you out here on your misspelling of "misogynistic" as "mysogynystic") is casually saying that women were "as wet as the ocean" when Denny performed. Not overtly misogynistic, but a little. Or maybe it's just gross, either way it's a weird thing to say.
I most certainly am not. I was using Pet Sounds as a starting point since it is obviously their magnum opus; I stated that from the very beginning. My point was that nothing you said refutes what I said (which was mostly about Pet Sounds). This is also why I ceded that their earlier songs were often the result of a more collaborative creative process than that which was behind Pet Sounds (still, Brian Wilson was the mind behind the vast majority of even their early songs).
"That does not detract from the fact that Denny took the inpiration for the earlier catalogue and the vitality of the live performances to a new level again and again. Brian was a genius, but the rock n roll came first and strongest from Dennis."
Bringing something as subjective and vague as "rock n roll" into the argument is silly.
"It wasn't democratic at all. During the genesis of the band, it was Brian asking Dennis to describe what it was like to surf. Dennis' real life channeled through Brian's genius. Again, two pieces of a puzzle equally crucial to each other."
You just described a collaborative, democratic creative process. Still, this isn't as cut-and-dry as you make it out to be. Brian was a shut-in who looked up to his brother, yes, but that isn't necessarily what made him write all those surf songs. Not to mention the fact that it had little to nothing to do with the genius melodies Brian wrote and the harmonies Brian (mostly) composed. Plain and simple, Dennis did not have a huge creative say in the writing and recording of Beach Boys songs. He just didn't. Did he influence Brian in some vague way? Like I said, of course--he was his brother. But you can't say that just because Dennis surfed that he pushed The Beach Boys "to a new level." That does not follow. That said, his input was definitely greater in the early to mid-60s than it was in the Pet Sounds era.
"Yes, Mike had the bass, but again, it was the brotherly harmonies that people associate the Beach Boys with most, and Dennis was an indispensable part of that blend."
Right, but you claimed Dennis Wilson had the bass. Which is incorrect. And as much as I hate Mike Love, Beach Boys harmonies never would've been Beach Boys harmonies without Mike Love. He had the loveliest, most versatile voice in the group. Love was the best singer in The Beach Boys.
"It's not mysogynistic to state that women threw themselves at Dennis."
The part that's misogynistic (and since you called @jeffp1717 out on his spelling a week or so ago, I'll call you out here on your misspelling of "misogynistic" as "mysogynystic") is casually saying that women were "as wet as the ocean" when Denny performed. Not overtly misogynistic, but a little. Or maybe it's just gross, either way it's a weird thing to say.
You are very clearly not nearly as much of an expert on the Beach Boys as you think. You say rock n roll is too vague, but Brian Wilson himself said that when the band was forming, it was Dennis who provided the "combustible spark just by his presence." You say the early genesis was democratic, as if two of five members doing all the deciding is somehow democratic. It was 100% Dennis' idea for his lifestyle to be the subject matter of their music, just as it was Dennis' decision to play Surfin' in their audition that got them a contract in the first place.
As for the low part: Go back and read what I wrote. I said that Dennis had the low part of the Wilson brothers' blend. If you can't understand how that is different from being the lowest voice in all the band, or how it was the Wilson trio that made the Beach Boys special, then I don't know why I'm even wasting my time.
Oh, and if speaking of ladies being wet smacks you as sexist, I am very sorry for the poor women who go to bed with you.
Edit: This post was of course in response to rosko, not Dave.
Post by A$AP Rosko on Mar 15, 2013 12:51:10 GMT -5
Being wet as the ocean. Not being wet. The hyperbole is the weird, off-putting part. I'm done with this debate though since you are clearly a very argumentative, pithy, and illogical person whose chief strategy in debate is to twist words and set up straw men. And since this is the Father John Misty thread.
Post by itrainmonkeys on Mar 15, 2013 13:09:16 GMT -5
This is one of the few acts I've really gotten to know since the drop. I plan on "discovering" more this weekend and going through the lineup like I usually do but just haven't had time. Hope this set doesn't conflict with anyone I want to see. Looking forward to his Roo set as my first FJM show.
