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Post by wannaberoo'ing on Mar 10, 2014 9:18:38 GMT -5
I think the really gross sex scenes in the finale were a "F you" to HBO, based upon Pizzollato's disdain for having to comply with "... a clear mandate in pay-cable for a certain level of nudity." He went on to say, "I’d be happy with none. Seems to me if people want to see naked people doing it, there’s this thing called “the internet.”
I think the really gross sex scenes in the finale were a "F you" to HBO, based upon Pizzollato's disdain for having to comply with "... a clear mandate in pay-cable for a certain level of nudity." He went on to say, "I’d be happy with none. Seems to me if people want to see naked people doing it, there’s this thing called “the internet.”
Even a middle "finger" to the nudity mandate?
I thought his raging against the nudity "mandate" came across as self-serving BS.
I think the really gross sex scenes in the finale were a "F you" to HBO, based upon Pizzollato's disdain for having to comply with "... a clear mandate in pay-cable for a certain level of nudity." He went on to say, "I’d be happy with none. Seems to me if people want to see naked people doing it, there’s this thing called “the internet.”
Even a middle "finger" to the nudity mandate?
I thought his raging against the nudity "mandate" came across as self-serving BS.
I thought his raging against the nudity "mandate" came across as self-serving BS.
Self-serving BS? How? I don't think he came across as "raging". He was merely expressing his displeasure in having to comply with a mandate he felt unneeded and or justified.
I think the biggest surprise was the happy ending. A lot of people just don't know how to process that. They were so ready for one or both of them to die.
I think this was the issue for me last night. The ending was so far afield from what I was expecting and had so much going on in the last 20 minutes that it was too much for me to process effectively immediately after watching it. I remember thinking last night something to the effect of how it had essentially gone down the road of the happy ending I had railed about earlier in the day. Through the course of their life, Rust and Marty had came to a point where they felt they had cut off all their connections to the world. Marty was divorced and his kids seemed to hate him. Rust had isolated himself in the bartending job for an owner that seems essentially mute. Both had prepared themselves to sacrifice themselves in order to give some sort of significance to their lives. Then through the course of their reunion, the confrontation with Childress, Rust's near death experience and their recoveries, they found that all the things that they felt they had lost were still there. Marty's family still cared about him even through all the things he had done. Even though they had passed, Rust still felt his father and daughter's love for him out there somewhere in the universe. Along with that, they had reconnected with each other and had someone who could understand that dark part of themselves that they had from their job in a way that no one else could. It reads like a Hallmark card, and I couldn't be happier with it as an ending.
On other topics,
It is a testament to the show how everything after the confrontation overshadowed everything before it. This is doubly impressive because of how well done the confrontation was. I loved how they made Childress completely grounded in reality but still amazingly terrifying.
Once again, the production design people on this show are so top notch. Carcosa has so impressive in the level of detail they made. It just seemed endless especially in the light of that it was one man that made it by hand.
I will never be able to think about flowers in the same manner again. Thanks HBO.
I thought his raging against the nudity "mandate" came across as self-serving BS.
Really? You don't think he has a point?
No, I get the point. But I thought the use of the word "mandate" was suspect. To me it read like he felt like he had to have boobs everywhere, so he did it, now he regrets it and wants to imply that it was HBO's decision not his. Just my take.
No, I get the point. But I thought the use of the word "mandate" was suspect. To me it read like he felt like he had to have boobs everywhere, so he did it, now he regrets it and wants to imply that it was HBO's decision not his. Just my take.
Judging by the history of HBO shows, I don't find it hard to swallow that they have some kind of mandate for that. As stupid as it is, some people expect that type of shit.
No, I get the point. But I thought the use of the word "mandate" was suspect. To me it read like he felt like he had to have boobs everywhere, so he did it, now he regrets it and wants to imply that it was HBO's decision not his. Just my take.
Judging by the history of HBO shows, I don't find it hard to swallow that they have some kind of mandate for that. As stupid as it is, some people expect that type of shit.
Still, dude is taking it both ways. He gets credit for having full creative control and writing the whole show himself, but blames the boobs stuff on someone else.
No, I get the point. But I thought the use of the word "mandate" was suspect. To me it read like he felt like he had to have boobs everywhere, so he did it, now he regrets it and wants to imply that it was HBO's decision not his. Just my take.
Judging by the history of HBO shows, I don't find it hard to swallow that they have some kind of mandate for that. As stupid as it is, some people expect that type of shit.
Banshee actually just mentioned a week or so ago how the explicit sex in GoT is way more frequent than in the books.
Judging by the history of HBO shows, I don't find it hard to swallow that they have some kind of mandate for that. As stupid as it is, some people expect that type of shit.
Still, dude is taking it both ways. He gets credit for having full creative control and writing the whole show himself, but blames the boobs stuff on someone else.
Judging by the history of HBO shows, I don't find it hard to swallow that they have some kind of mandate for that. As stupid as it is, some people expect that type of shit.
Banshee actually just mentioned a week or so ago how the explicit sex in GoT is way more frequent than in the books.
HBO's VP of Tits is relentless on GoT. They literally create entire plot devices just to cram some more breasts into an episode. Don't get me started.
Since others who share my opinion about the journey of the characters and the acting of Woody and Matt have already commented on those things, I'm not sure what i can add. I am really happy at how fucking creepy they made Errol Childress.
Then why didn't the female characters serve any purpose to the story? Most of them were there strictly for the nudity and setting up the end of Marty's marriage.
Because the story was being told from a strict two-person POV. This interview link fully explains the creator's direction and reasons for how women are portrayed.
Post by 3post1jack1 on Mar 10, 2014 11:27:58 GMT -5
Another thing of note, in the hospital room at the end when Marty was telling the detectives the last thing he remembered, didn't he say he was saying his "friend's" name, as in Rust's name? Am I remembering that right?
If so, definitely the first time he called Rust a friend.
Then why didn't the female characters serve any purpose to the story? Most of them were there strictly for the nudity and setting up the end of Marty's marriage.
Because the story was being told from a strict two-person POV. This interview link fully explains the creator's direction and reasons for how women are portrayed.
I also disagree with the assertion that the female roles in this show were strictly ancillary. Many were vehicles to further the story and the development of the main characters, but they were deeper than a hot, naked woman on Entourage or one of the strippers from The Sopranos.
I also disagree with the assertion that the female roles in this show were strictly ancillary. Many were vehicles to further the story and the development of the main characters, but they were deeper than a hot, naked woman on Entourage or one of the strippers from The Sopranos.
I agree 100%. I never saw Maggie in a negative or in "non-fleshed out character" light. She moves the story-line sometimes herself, as well. Yes, she sleeps with Rust, but in her mind, it was the only way to get the marriage to end with Marty, absolve it completely. It wasn't just for spite or a woman scorned.
Also, the first affair for Marty (the courtroom recorder) showed more than just her boobs- she wasn't crazy. Yes, telling Maggie about the affair can be seen as revenge or as a malicious move to hurt Marty, but she had every right to do it. Marty did indeed need punished for his crazy behavior (breaking down her door, attacking her and her friend that night). She said that he shouldn't be allowed to get away with his BS behavior any longer, that he couldn't control her or treat women this way. She was justified and Maggie had a right to know anyway.
You bet. Her sole purpose was to bring them apart, so they could get back together. Now mind you, she did it well. That's just how I see it.
I always saw Maggie as the strong woman of the show. Yes, she was emotional and in some scenes the "victim", but she also stuck it out with an asshole husband for years after the initial fallout for her children. She gave her husband a second chance, and made the right moves to end the relationship under her own power. She ended up remarried in a big house with a big ring, ended up bringing herself out of the gutter to make a better life for her and her children. If another camera was watching Maggie the whole time, it be a nice little Lifetime Original IMO.
You bet. Her sole purpose was to bring them apart, so they could get back together. Now mind you, she did it well. That's just how I see it.
I think I mentioned this before, but I was expecting some grand redemption for Marty. He treated his wife and family like shit, and I thought it would have been nice if they had ended up being the key to unraveling the case, something that had been there all along if Marty had only taken them seriously.
One of the perks of the shows narrow conclusion is that you can still see it that way. "If only Marty had recognized the signs of abuse exhibited by his daughter" or whatever.
I do think the show was clear to criticize the narrow view on women though.
You bet. Her sole purpose was to bring them apart, so they could get back together. Now mind you, she did it well. That's just how I see it.
If you look at it that way, everybody on the show that wasn't Marty or Rust was a prop. They all only existed to push along the plot of the two main characters.
Post by wannaberoo'ing on Mar 10, 2014 12:01:58 GMT -5
I think viewers need to be careful about injecting their own prejudices into the show, Pizzalato's words, not mine. But, sentiments that need to be echoed here when it comes to how we view the women of the story.
He was telling a story based out of a culture and a context of poverty, crime, misogyny, wild religious beliefs, and extremely violent people. The shows protagonists are also "bad men" at times. Women are mostly peripheral, but their humanity and strength is explored too. The girl who gets out of prostitution, leaves the Bunny Ranch. Maggie's strength. I think many of the female characters are allowed some ability to fight back, if you will. But, that being said, it is a story about two somewhat fucked up guys, who don't have healthy relationships with anyone, the least of all women, fighting against mad men who aim to carry out their cult's ideology of abusing and murdering women and children.
Also, the exchange between Marty and the Madame of the Bunny Ranch is perfect for this case: She tells Marty that when men don't own women's sex anymore, they get pissed. They have lost control. She really nails it in that scene and Marty is speechless. Props to Pizzalato there for speaking the truth.
Post by Mista Don't Play on Mar 10, 2014 12:05:27 GMT -5
I see Maggie as much more than just a plot device. She served a purpose to drive the story, sure, but so did every other character, but I thought her character showed depth and strength that doesn't completely fit with the theme of poor, desperate, naked, crazy woman that you could fit some of the other female characters into.
You bet. Her sole purpose was to bring them apart, so they could get back together. Now mind you, she did it well. That's just how I see it.
If you look at it that way, everybody on the show that wasn't Marty or Rust was a prop. They all only existed to push along the plot of the two main characters.
Quoting this so it doesn't get lost on the last page.
If your criteria for "prop" is "does something to impact the main characters" than anyone worthwhile is going to be considered a prop.
I think Maggie had more than just one role in the show, so minimizing her to a "prop" is unfair, imo.
Post by Vibes Chilled on Mar 10, 2014 12:28:52 GMT -5
Did anyone notice Errol's different voices that he had going on? I spotted a hillbilly accent, a slight British voice, and finally the low reverberating devilish voice he had going on towards the end. And what about that last whispering voice echoing throughout the dungeon walls, leading Rust to the Carcosa room? Was he omnipresent or something in those walls?
Did anyone notice Errol's different voices that he had going on? I spotted a hillbilly accent, a slight British voice, and finally the low reverberating devilish voice he had going on towards the end. And what about that last whispering voice echoing throughout the dungeon walls, leading Rust to the Carcosa room? Was he omnipresent or something in those walls?
At the end, I kind of wondered the entire time if that voice was really there or if it was just in Rust's head like his instinct telling him where to go and taking a sinister voice based of what he knew of Errol. That reminds me. Anybody know why he kept calling Rust "Little Priest"?
Did anyone notice Errol's different voices that he had going on? I spotted a hillbilly accent, a slight British voice, and finally the low reverberating devilish voice he had going on towards the end. And what about that last whispering voice echoing throughout the dungeon walls, leading Rust to the Carcosa room? Was he omnipresent or something in those walls?
At the end, I kind of wondered the entire time if that voice was really there or if it was just in Rust's head like his instinct telling him where to go and taking a sinister voice based of what he knew of Errol. That reminds me. Anybody know why he kept calling Rust "Little Priest"?
I kinda got the feeling that Errol wasn't just waiting at the end, but leading Rust there from a turn or two ahead.
