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Did anyone notice Errol's different voices that he had going on? I spotted a hillbilly accent, a slight British voice, and finally the low reverberating devilish voice he had going on towards the end. And what about that last whispering voice echoing throughout the dungeon walls, leading Rust to the Carcosa room? Was he omnipresent or something in those walls?
My husband said last night that the multiple voices could be a telling sign of dissociative identity disorder. The whispering inside of the abandoned viaduct was tremendously eerie. He kept calling Rust "Little Priest" I do believe, which nicely sums up Rust's theological musing nature while also contradicting Rust's atheist viewpoints. Most religious scholars are meant to have a critical and thoughtful attitude toward religious documents and ideology, instead of just being hard and fast believers.
At the end, I kind of wondered the entire time if that voice was really there or if it was just in Rust's head like his instinct telling him where to go and taking a sinister voice based of what he knew of Errol. That reminds me. Anybody know why he kept calling Rust "Little Priest"?
I kinda got the feeling that Errol wasn't just waiting at the end, but leading Rust there from a turn or two ahead.
I could see that, but it also seemed like there was a set path through Carcosa. Marty found his way to the end with very little help.
If I'm a cop chasing a monster through a serial killers lair, I'm waiting for my partner to catch up to me. Seems like a smart idea.
I think it was important for Rust to be the first to confront "the monster" and to initially do this on his own. He told you that like any dream, there is a monster at the end of it
(I'm just trying to say that it wouldn't have been near as scary any other way)
As far as acting goes, the childlook look of joy on Woody's face when his family came to see him in the hospital, followed quickly by the tears when the magnitude of the life he'd lost with these people he loved came down on him, coupled with the absolute horrors he had witnessed... that just about destroyed me.
Woody's performance, especially these two last episodes, is just as stellar as Matt's has been. I think he's been overshadowed by Rust the character, as his character was more pedestrian but played perfectly.
I couldn't agree more about Woody's acting. His hospital bed scene in the finale was a tour de force.
Overall, I loved the finale and found it shocking - in a good way - the first season did not end in nihilistic fashion.
The scene in front of the hospital being shot in front of a greenscreen was out of touch and distracting for how meticulous everything else was in this season.
Woody's performance, especially these two last episodes, is just as stellar as Matt's has been. I think he's been overshadowed by Rust the character, as his character was more pedestrian but played perfectly.
I couldn't agree more about Woody's acting. His hospital bed scene in the finale was a tour de force.
Overall, I loved the finale and found it shocking - in a good way - the first season did not end in nihilistic fashion.
This was the real twist at the end. We all expected this to end in a classic Shakespearean tragic fashion: everybody dying. And that would have been fine.
But I liked the actual ending much more. Really challenged the target audience of a show like this, the kind of audience that is weary of "happy" Hollywood endings. But True Detective pulled it off, it wasn't really happy so much, but it was true, and not purely tragic. What makes us are the relationships we form, whether through family or friendship. To have those torn away from us, through death or our own actions, is arguably the most horrible thing that can happen to a person.
The scene in front of the hospital being shot in front of a greenscreen was out of touch and distracting for how meticulous everything else was in this season.
Am I the only one who didn't notice the greenscreen at all?
The scene in front of the hospital being shot in front of a greenscreen was out of touch and distracting for how meticulous everything else was in this season.
Am I the only one who didn't notice the greenscreen at all?
you'll notice it when you watch it again. when they showed marty with the sky behind him I was immediately like "hey look a green screen". it was pretty cheesy looking.
Am I the only one who didn't notice the greenscreen at all?
you'll notice it when you watch it again. when they showed marty with the sky behind him I was immediately like "hey look a green screen". it was pretty cheesy looking.
Fair enough. I am honestly not surprised I missed it. I tend to look past stuff like that when I am really into a story.
Looking for an answer to this- when and how did Marty and Rust get rescued?
The phones weren't working for them to call a detectives, there was never an acknowledgement of a tracker on the car either. Rust gave all those envelopes to the bar owner to release to the media if he was gone for 24 hours and didn't return.
So it takes a few hours to get to Carcosa, but then Marty gets bludgeoned and Rust gets stabbed but they survive long enough for the mail to get to the cops? That is at least 40 hours.
I thought Marty actually made a phone call before he pursued Rust. They didn't show him actually using the phone, but when he crammed the gun in whats her names face he said something to the effect of "everybody has a phone, where is your bleeping phone".
So I assumed she told him where the phone was, and he called the detective he met with in the restaurant. Remember he met with him just to get assurance that when he calls, they were to bring it hard. And they definitely brought it.
Looking for an answer to this- when and how did Marty and Rust get rescued?
The phones weren't working for them to call a detectives, there was never an acknowledgement of a tracker on the car either. Rust gave all those envelopes to the bar owner to release to the media if he was gone for 24 hours and didn't return.
So it takes a few hours to get to Carcosa, but then Marty gets bludgeoned and Rust gets stabbed but they survive long enough for the mail to get to the cops? That is at least 40 hours.
I think there was a phone there after all, the lady was just saying there wasn't to make Rust and Marty leave.
Post by Roo'adelphia on Mar 10, 2014 14:33:39 GMT -5
I was just wondering why everything looked so clean in that scene. I know we just left dingy Carcosa and all, but that was the nicest, brightest hospital ever. Looking back at that, vs the natural scenery throughout the series that they had put so much work into (especially saving the greenscreen for the last shots) it just seems a tad cheesy. Totally made up for and above by Matt and Woody's acting and a great ending in general. Marty and Chole are now veterans in the war of light and dark, and the world goes on. And as its been said, if we are arguing the little things, everyone involved with this show did their jobs.
Looking for an answer to this- when and how did Marty and Rust get rescued?
The phones weren't working for them to call a detectives, there was never an acknowledgement of a tracker on the car either. Rust gave all those envelopes to the bar owner to release to the media if he was gone for 24 hours and didn't return.
So it takes a few hours to get to Carcosa, but then Marty gets bludgeoned and Rust gets stabbed but they survive long enough for the mail to get to the cops? That is at least 40 hours.
I thought Marty actually made a phone call before he pursued Rust. They didn't show him actually using the phone, but when he crammed the gun in whats her names face he said something to the effect of "everybody has a phone, where is your bleeping phone".
So I assumed she told him where the phone was, and he called the detective he met with in the restaurant. Remember he met with him just to get assurance that when he calls, they were to bring it hard. And they definitely brought it.
This is the way I viewed it, too. I got the sense it was implied there was a working phone. Yes, they could have used a cut scene with Marty dialing the other detective, but I think it would have distracted from Rust working his way through the maze.
Post by ilovethisgame on Mar 10, 2014 14:35:21 GMT -5
What was the very opening scene of episode 1 supposed to be about? Did that have something to do with the Dora Lange murder? I always thought it would be a scene from further along in the season, perhaps dealing with how things would go down in the end. So I was expecting to see that come back at some point, but it never did (as far as I can tell).
I was just wondering why everything looked so clean in that scene. I know we just left dingy Carcosa and all, but that was the nicest, brightest hospital ever. Looking back at that, vs the natural scenery throughout the series that they had put so much work into (especially saving the greenscreen for the last shots) it just seems a tad cheesy. Totally made up for and above by Matt and Woody's acting and a great ending in general. Marty and Chole are now veterans in the war of light and dark, and the world goes on. And as its been said, if we are arguing the little things, everyone involved with this show did their jobs.
It appears they were in Lafayette, LA, a city of over 100,000 - and not really in the bayou anymore. I think it makes sense that people with their level of injuries would be at a bigger/better facility than some tiny county hospital or something.
I thought Marty actually made a phone call before he pursued Rust. They didn't show him actually using the phone, but when he crammed the gun in whats her names face he said something to the effect of "everybody has a phone, where is your bleeping phone".
So I assumed she told him where the phone was, and he called the detective he met with in the restaurant. Remember he met with him just to get assurance that when he calls, they were to bring it hard. And they definitely brought it.
This is the way I viewed it, too. I got the sense it was implied there was a working phone. Yes, they could have used a cut scene with Marty dialing the other detective, but I think it would have distracted from Rust working his way through the maze.
For me this was another example of the show assuming we, the viewers, know how to jump along to conclusions without explicitly being shown everything. Marty's scene ending with the line about the phone and then next seeing him moving out toward the outer house and Carcosa meant to me that he successfully made the call. Too much exposition with Papania for them not to end up on the scene. The only thing I wasn't clear on, until later, was if Marty had to kill her in the process.
Post by A$AP Rosko on Mar 10, 2014 15:51:43 GMT -5
OK I've been stewing on the finale and how much I loved it all day, time to spill out all those thoughts.
I thought the last 15 minutes of the episode (everything that happened after Errol died) were perfect, just a perfect way to end the series. I loved the last line of the series: "If you ask me, the light's winning." I never felt too invested in the identity of the Yellow King or how far and wide the Carcosa conspiracy/cult or Tuttle cover-up spread. I was always FAR more interested in our two central characters, the experiences they went through, and the way they'd change over the course of a decade and a half. To me, there was a HUGE (yet subtle at the moment) tonal shift that took place in episode 7, when Rust asks Marty about his personal life. As a viewer, my immediate reaction was one of surprise; I even tried to formulate some ideas on what Rust's ulterior motives might've been there to ask Marty about his personal life. Even Marty himself comments on how much of a change this represents for Rust, as the Rust Cohle of 1995 or even (perhaps especially) the Rust Cohle of 2002 would NEVER in a million years ask Marty (or any other co-worker for that matter) about his personal life.
Looking back on that moment now after the finale, I think that after all Rust had seen and been through and lost, and after all the time he spent ruminating on that loss and that experience, he realized that Marty was the closest thing to a friend he had in this world. What's so beautiful about these last two episodes to me is how much Marty and Rust have changed over the years, and how that change has made them realize how much they really mean to each other. There are two separate moments in the finale that illustrate these changes quite poignantly.
The first is with Marty. The book on Marty, throughout the entire life of the season, has been that he's not the best detective; that he is smart, and could be a great detective if he had a different psychological constitution, but that he all too often succumbed to his vices and let things fall to the wayside (his family, his smarts, his temper). Marty's always had the potential to be a great detective, though, which is what makes it so poignant when he makes the breakthrough in the case with the green paint, noticing a detail so obscure that even Super Detective Rust Cohle can't muster up anything to say other than "Fuuuuuuck you." Marty ended up doing detective work that even Cohle could only stand and admire, detective work that 1995 Marty wouldn't have or couldn't have done.
The second is with Rust. This one's obvious. They'd been gradually building to big changes in Rust's character the last two episodes, and I think the final scene perfectly showed the viewer how those changes were cemented in Rust. Here's this guy who's spent a decade and a half believing that everything is meaningless, that human consciousness is a tragic misstep in evolution, that time is a flat circle...then he nearly dies and he feels the presence of God and the presence of his dead daughter and father. I'm not sure this would work so well if we weren't already seeing changes in Rust in the way he deals with/talks to Marty, but when he breaks down crying, it's not because he's been wrong about everything he's ever believed. He breaks down crying because it's all about the grief he feels over his dead daughter, and it's ALWAYS BEEN about that grief. What's been buried under Rust's nihilism for a long, long time is his deep, deep love for his daughter; the nihilism is just a coping mechanism, and it took going to the brink of death for Rust to realize that his love for his daughter was what permutated everything for him. The things Rust has been through, including nearly dying, are liable to change a man, and I think they certainly changed Rust, which makes it just unbelievably beautiful to me when Rust argues to Marty that "the light's winning." Compare that to the nihilistic grandstanding Rust engages in in the first episode; here's a display of unfiltered optimism from a character who has been loudly, stubbornly, vehemently nihilistic for a long, long time.
This change that Rust goes through--along with the aforementioned changes Marty goes through from episode one to the finale--, finally realizing that the important people in his life like Marty and his dead daughter are why life matters, ARE the arc of True Detective. This show is and always has been about these two characters, and if the vast ideological and personal changes these two men go through, their going through hell and back to realize how damn important they are to each other and how much they love each other...if that's not satisfying enough for you, if that's not enough of a "twist" for you, you were just watching the show the wrong damn way. This was easily one of my favorite season finales ever, and I couldn't be more pleased with the direction it took.
Also worth mentioning: the Carcosa chase scene was gorgeous, sort of like Pan's Labyrinth-meets-The Shining. And I really liked the scene where the sniper shoots at the one cop involved in the cover-up. "L'chaim, fatass."
What was the very opening scene of episode 1 supposed to be about? Did that have something to do with the Dora Lange murder? I always thought it would be a scene from further along in the season, perhaps dealing with how things would go down in the end. So I was expecting to see that come back at some point, but it never did (as far as I can tell).
It was Errol actually committing the Dora Lange murder I believe.
OK I've been stewing on the finale and how much I loved it all day, time to spill out all those thoughts...
<snip>
/slowly begins clapping
bravo, very well put!
I think the greatest theme of all art since the existential movement is the exploration of either A) our connection to each other or B) the complete lack thereof. I think in the end Rust makes the jump from nihilism to interconnectedness. This isn't necessarily a religious jump, maybe you could argue its spiritual (but how vague a word is that really?), but really its the answer for why we don't treat each other like garbage, why we don't just kill and use another human being for our own survival or pleasure. Because we are connected, the concept of self is a bullshit illusion dreamed up by our egos, and as our egos dissolve, or are otherwise shattered by a epiphanic or even horrifying experience, all thats left is that warmness Rust talks about, where he is there with his daughter, with his father, with his friend Marty. The walls he built up to separate himself from the world, the walls that in smaller ways we all build up, came tumbling down. And that is a scary experience, but its OK.
All the worst philosophies human kind comes up with are intended to separate, all the best attempt to unify.
Personally I find we get a piece of that unification through a shared experience of art, my preferred medium being live music. Lets all go to Bonnaroo together.
OK I've been stewing on the finale and how much I loved it all day, time to spill out all those thoughts...
<snip>
/slowly begins clapping
bravo, very well put!
I think the greatest theme of all art since the existential movement is the exploration of either A) our connection to each other or B) the complete lack thereof. I think in the end Rust makes the jump from nihilism to interconnectedness. This isn't necessarily a religious jump, maybe you could argue its spiritual (but how vague a word is that really?), but really its the answer for why we don't treat each other like garbage, why we don't just kill and use another human being for our own survival or pleasure. Because we are connected, the concept of self is a bullshit illusion dreamed up by our egos, and as our egos dissolve, or are otherwise shattered by a epiphanic or even horrifying experience, all thats left is that warmness Rust talks about, where he is there with his daughter, with his father, with his friend Marty. The walls he built up to separate himself from the world, the walls that in smaller ways we all build up, came tumbling down. And that is a scary experience, but its OK.
All the worst philosophies human kind comes up with are intended to separate, all the best attempt to unify.
Personally I find we get a piece of that unification through a shared experience of art, my preferred medium being live music. Lets all go to Bonnaroo together.
Totally. I think the greatest accomplishment of that first season was Rust's journey from nihilism to realizing the innerconnectedness of human beings, and how the meaning of life is in the ones we care about.
Post by Boston Powers on Mar 10, 2014 16:29:10 GMT -5
Rust Cohle is the most well-written and perfectly executed character in TV history. I know how it sounds and I don't care if anyone thinks I'm jumping the gun on that. The fact that we witnessed his transformation over a mere 8 episodes is astounding.
I agree with everyone's sentiments, but I must add that I was secretly hoping that we were about to witness some complete supernatural lovecraft-esque tentacle-fucking madness whenever Rust entered the room and saw that vortex swirling into the cosmos. This was an absolute perfect season of television. Tight Dicktective FTW. There's no way in hell they will top the first season.
I was a little disappointed in the finale. Wish we would have got more of the big picture solved. After episode seven we knew Errol was the man with scars and nothing else was really brought to light about the case after that. Wish they would have exposed more people involved.
OK I've been stewing on the finale and how much I loved it all day, time to spill out all those thoughts.
I thought the last 15 minutes of the episode (everything that happened after Errol died) were perfect, just a perfect way to end the series. I loved the last line of the series: "If you ask me, the light's winning." I never felt too invested in the identity of the Yellow King or how far and wide the Carcosa conspiracy/cult or Tuttle cover-up spread. I was always FAR more interested in our two central characters, the experiences they went through, and the way they'd change over the course of a decade and a half. To me, there was a HUGE (yet subtle at the moment) tonal shift that took place in episode 7, when Rust asks Marty about his personal life. As a viewer, my immediate reaction was one of surprise; I even tried to formulate some ideas on what Rust's ulterior motives might've been there to ask Marty about his personal life. Even Marty himself comments on how much of a change this represents for Rust, as the Rust Cohle of 1995 or even (perhaps especially) the Rust Cohle of 2002 would NEVER in a million years ask Marty (or any other co-worker for that matter) about his personal life.
Looking back on that moment now after the finale, I think that after all Rust had seen and been through and lost, and after all the time he spent ruminating on that loss and that experience, he realized that Marty was the closest thing to a friend he had in this world. What's so beautiful about these last two episodes to me is how much Marty and Rust have changed over the years, and how that change has made them realize how much they really mean to each other. There are two separate moments in the finale that illustrate these changes quite poignantly.
The first is with Marty. The book on Marty, throughout the entire life of the season, has been that he's not the best detective; that he is smart, and could be a great detective if he had a different psychological constitution, but that he all too often succumbed to his vices and let things fall to the wayside (his family, his smarts, his temper). Marty's always had the potential to be a great detective, though, which is what makes it so poignant when he makes the breakthrough in the case with the green paint, noticing a detail so obscure that even Super Detective Rust Cohle can't muster up anything to say other than "Fuuuuuuck you." Marty ended up doing detective work that even Cohle could only stand and admire, detective work that 1995 Marty wouldn't have or couldn't have done.
The second is with Rust. This one's obvious. They'd been gradually building to big changes in Rust's character the last two episodes, and I think the final scene perfectly showed the viewer how those changes were cemented in Rust. Here's this guy who's spent a decade and a half believing that everything is meaningless, that human consciousness is a tragic misstep in evolution, that time is a flat circle...then he nearly dies and he feels the presence of God and the presence of his dead daughter and father. I'm not sure this would work so well if we weren't already seeing changes in Rust in the way he deals with/talks to Marty, but when he breaks down crying, it's not because he's been wrong about everything he's ever believed. He breaks down crying because it's all about the grief he feels over his dead daughter, and it's ALWAYS BEEN about that grief. What's been buried under Rust's nihilism for a long, long time is his deep, deep love for his daughter; the nihilism is just a coping mechanism, and it took going to the brink of death for Rust to realize that his love for his daughter was what permutated everything for him. The things Rust has been through, including nearly dying, are liable to change a man, and I think they certainly changed Rust, which makes it just unbelievably beautiful to me when Rust argues to Marty that "the light's winning." Compare that to the nihilistic grandstanding Rust engages in in the first episode; here's a display of unfiltered optimism from a character who has been loudly, stubbornly, vehemently nihilistic for a long, long time.
This change that Rust goes through--along with the aforementioned changes Marty goes through from episode one to the finale--, finally realizing that the important people in his life like Marty and his dead daughter are why life matters, ARE the arc of True Detective. This show is and always has been about these two characters, and if the vast ideological and personal changes these two men go through, their going through hell and back to realize how damn important they are to each other and how much they love each other...if that's not satisfying enough for you, if that's not enough of a "twist" for you, you were just watching the show the wrong damn way. This was easily one of my favorite season finales ever, and I couldn't be more pleased with the direction it took.
Also worth mentioning: the Carcosa chase scene was gorgeous, sort of like Pan's Labyrinth-meets-The Shining. And I really liked the scene where the sniper shoots at the one cop involved in the cover-up. "L'chaim, fatass."
I think you are 100 percent on point with this review and specifically in relation to the growth of the two protagonists. By the way, if it hasn't already been mentioned, the writer of True Detective retained the literary rights to both characters, meaning he could place them in a future novel.
OK I've been stewing on the finale and how much I loved it all day, time to spill out all those thoughts.
I agree mostly. I too became way more keen to the development of our two heroes. I started looking at the show as more of an investigation into being human (anthropologist in me), our relationships with the world, belief structures, interpersonal heartache and conflicts. Marty and Rust for awhile were certainly operating in a binary system, more of a dichotomy, they were an example of the larger story structure at hand. The show offered many binary systems to ponder: good vs. evil, light vs. dark, science vs. mystical thinking, on and on.
Fundamentally though, I don't see Rust's transformation as complete and tidy as you do. I feel Rust will always be a conflicted person, more of a skeptic, a cynic to the world he sees. Belief in God? I don't see that with Rust. A closer relationship with Marty, sure. A better understanding of what awaits him in the end? That too. But, he still demonstrated his conflicted mind in the end, talking about the fifth man, how the case wasn't fully done yet. He also seemed conflicted about waking up from his coma, as well. Did he want to return this physical shithole? I'm not fully convinced. As with everything else in the show, Rust was always right. They didn't fully complete their job, as more bad men are out there even still. It's a spiral with an open end, never complete. Sadly, there always will be a flat circle. The show, to me, didn't end quite as happily as meets the eye. But, that's been the nature of the story and of Rust from the beginning, and I don't see any reason why it would deviate from its truest form.
