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Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go on an overnight drunk, and in 10 days I'm going to set out to find the shark that ate my friend and destroy it. Anyone who wants to tag along is more than welcome.
I have to disagree with y'all on this. This season has been very good so far. I think there has been a lot of character development and that shoot out scene was almost as good as the ending of Episode 4 from Season 1. I think a lot of people forget that Season 1 got steadily worse after the 4th episode. It was about four insanely good episodes and then just decent ending. In a vacuum, this is great television. Compared to one of the greatest seasons of television ever, most anything seems sub-par.
I think there has been a lot of character development and that shoot out scene was almost as good as the ending of Episode 4 from Season 1.
nah
I think a lot of people forget that Season 1 got steadily worse after the 4th episode. It was about four insanely good episodes and then just decent ending.
I think the deposition in episode five was almost as good as the long-take escape. The editing was elegant and really drove home the point that Marty and Rust were forever stuck in a lie together. That was one hell of an episode. That was the peak for me.
In a vacuum, this is great television. Compared to one of the greatest seasons of television ever, most anything seems sub-par.
I don't think it's great television. Some of the acting has been pretty clunky and the scope of the story is so broad it's hard for me to really focus on what the heck is going on here. It's certainly entertaining and I hope the second half of the season delivers some really great storytelling.
I do agree with you that both seasons should be judged separately from each other. The only link is Pizzolato's writing and the theme of systemic corruption.
I for one cannot fully judge the two seasons separately, and that is the only thing saving this season for me and probably for many others. If Season 1 did not exist and this were an independently existing new show, I would have stopped watching a couple of episodes ago.
Post by papa steve on Jul 14, 2015 11:02:46 GMT -5
I really don't understand the hate for this show. It might be me being a HBO fanatic, but I have loved this season. I hear the male driven ego thing a lot but isn't that every cop show? I can think of countless times in the wire that was overly masculine. Also to act like Vince Vaughn monologue at the start of episode three was "painful" is beyond me. I think you all are trying way too hard.
I really don't understand the hate for this show. It might be me being a HBO fanatic, but I have loved this season. I hear the male driven ego thing a lot but isn't that every cop show? I can think of countless times in the wire that was overly masculine. Also to act like Vince Vaughn monologue at the start of episode three was "painful" is beyond me. I think you all are trying way too hard.
I think we are in a different boat than everyone else. I look forward to scenes with Vince Vaughn.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go on an overnight drunk, and in 10 days I'm going to set out to find the shark that ate my friend and destroy it. Anyone who wants to tag along is more than welcome.
I for one cannot fully judge the two seasons separately, and that is the only thing saving this season for me and probably for many others. If Season 1 did not exist and this were an independently existing new show, I would have stopped watching a couple of episodes ago.
Exactly this. I never would have made it past the incoherent first episode if it hadn't been for my faith that it would get better.
But the totally incoherent shootout with nameless Mexican bad guys who kill every cop on the team except our heroes has lost me what good faith this show had gathered from episodes 2 and 3. Seriously, we knew about the existence of one of these guys 10 minutes before the shoot out took place and suddenly there are a half dozen of them in a shoot out that will frame the entire second half of the season? That's just bad story telling.
I think Colin Farrell and Rachel McAdams are doing great work. But the story is terrible. As said earlier, Vince Vaughn is on a different show. The mystery itself is incomprehensible and pretty damn boring other than the occasional masked shooter. I don't really care who killed Caspare.
I'm getting my cops and robbers fix right now. Simultaneously watching this, Daredevil and The Wire.
So is the argument here that the writing for VV's character is bad or that he is not believable as a bad guy? I can understand the case if you are saying the former because he does talk in poems sometimes, but I like that about him. If you're saying the latter, I just disagree with you. He is a mob guy who finally got to the point where he could be legitimate and because of the death of the corrupt city manager, he now has to go back to being dirty. He isn't some caricature of a mob boss. I see him as a very intelligent business man. If he was supposed to be a caricature of a mob boss, then I would say he is failing, but that's not the character he is playing.
So is the argument here that the writing for VV's character is bad or that he is not believable as a bad guy? I can understand the case if you are saying the former because he does talk in poems sometimes, but I like that about him. If you're saying the latter, I just disagree with you. He is a mob guy who finally got to the point where he could be legitimate and because of the death of the corrupt city manager, he now has to go back to being dirty. He isn't some caricature of a mob boss. I see him as a very intelligent business man. If he was supposed to be a caricature of a mob boss, then I would say he is failing, but that's not the character he is playing.
The concept of the character is a good one. The dialogue he is given, and the acting he does given that dialogue. is Not Good. The one counter-example I would grant is the scene where he was threatening the guy outside his car, which seemed a lot more natural.
Otherwise, you're getting garbage dialogue like this:
Frank: Shouldn't a reasonable man infer, from Osip's arrival, and departure, and fucking failure to make good on our terms, as being connected, not just to Caspere, but prefiguring Caspere, in a causal sense?
So is the argument here that the writing for VV's character is bad or that he is not believable as a bad guy? I can understand the case if you are saying the former because he does talk in poems sometimes, but I like that about him. If you're saying the latter, I just disagree with you. He is a mob guy who finally got to the point where he could be legitimate and because of the death of the corrupt city manager, he now has to go back to being dirty. He isn't some caricature of a mob boss. I see him as a very intelligent business man. If he was supposed to be a caricature of a mob boss, then I would say he is failing, but that's not the character he is playing.
Yeah my biggest issue is the weird philosophical writing for him and his performance of that writing. I'm actually a fan of his mobster side. The mean, controlling, charismatic guy is a part Vince Vaughn has always played well.
Paste's review of the last episode made an interesting point regarding the philosophoical aspect of the show. In the first season it was almost entirely Rust Cohle spouting off lines like that and it worked both because MM sold it like crazy and his character had a literary background and was in a setting that made it all feel very natural. An LA mobster without that apparent literary background doesn't seem like the kind of person to give deep ramblings and VV doesn't sell it nearly enough to be believable.
Didn't he just lose all his money? Didn't he just lose the deal with the Russian? Didn't he just agree to a 5% markup with a drug dealer and then threaten the other guy at the table AFTER the deal was agreed to? Isn't 1 person in his crew dead? Isn't another one being suspected of turning on him?
Not very intelligent to me.
Maybe I should clarify that statement by saying that he is very intelligent and his character is more of a business man, but he is not always an intelligent business man.
But the flaw in the argument is that he had to be a good enough business man to get to where he was in the first place, right? I see no evidence that his success was given to him in a parent's will.
Also, your examples don't immediately suggest that he isn't intelligent.
He lost his money and the deal with the Russians by betting it all on a guy who died. More like bad luck. He agreed to a 5% markup in order to settle the deal and then threatened them as a reminder that while he is giving them a deal, he can also fuck them up. He can't completely control that one of his guys is dead. His intelligence isn't to blame for someone possibly turning on him
So is the argument here that the writing for VV's character is bad or that he is not believable as a bad guy? I can understand the case if you are saying the former because he does talk in poems sometimes, but I like that about him. If you're saying the latter, I just disagree with you. He is a mob guy who finally got to the point where he could be legitimate and because of the death of the corrupt city manager, he now has to go back to being dirty. He isn't some caricature of a mob boss. I see him as a very intelligent business man. If he was supposed to be a caricature of a mob boss, then I would say he is failing, but that's not the character he is playing.
The concept of the character is a good one. The dialogue he is given, and the acting he does given that dialogue. is Not Good. The one counter-example I would grant is the scene where he was threatening the guy outside his car, which seemed a lot more natural.
Otherwise, you're getting garbage dialogue like this:
Frank: Shouldn't a reasonable man infer, from Osip's arrival, and departure, and fucking failure to make good on our terms, as being connected, not just to Caspere, but prefiguring Caspere, in a causal sense?
And fish-face acting like the above gifs
I think Vince Vaughn just has the face of a fish. Unless I'm wrong, here, I can't remember any movie his fish face wasn't fish-facing.
And yeah, that quote is horrible, but VV didn't write it.
The concept of the character is a good one. The dialogue he is given, and the acting he does given that dialogue. is Not Good. The one counter-example I would grant is the scene where he was threatening the guy outside his car, which seemed a lot more natural.
Otherwise, you're getting garbage dialogue like this:
Frank: Shouldn't a reasonable man infer, from Osip's arrival, and departure, and fucking failure to make good on our terms, as being connected, not just to Caspere, but prefiguring Caspere, in a causal sense?
And fish-face acting like the above gifs
I think Vince Vaughn just has the face of a fish. Unless I'm wrong, here, I can't remember any movie his fish face wasn't fish-facing.
And yeah, that quote is horrible, but VV didn't write it.
Frankly, I just find the stridency of his character apoplectic.
Post by Dave Maynar on Jul 14, 2015 12:23:32 GMT -5
I just don't need to hear Frank talk about how he is struggling and out of options anymore. I get it. I don't need to hear about it fourteen times an episode.
I just don't need to hear Frank talk about how he is struggling and out of options anymore. I get it. I don't need to hear about it fourteen times an episode.
Don't you get it, sweetheart. All of his options are gone. Kaput. In the wind. He never figured on being poor again. He's out of options! And that doesn't even count for his piss poor avocado trees.
Post by Radius Claus on Jul 14, 2015 13:13:11 GMT -5
Here's what happens in the end: Frank finally figures things out and he and his wife have twins, but not before a big shootout at his super awesome mid mod pad. McAdams gets nasty with a guy she meets at a bowling alley before finding that Del Coro has a big heart buried deep in that brawny chest of his and they find happiness in each other's tilted past and outlook on life in general. Woodro finally gets back on that cycle of his, but he rides it off a cliff cuz he just can't deal anymore. Then Frank, McAdams and Del Coro make a lovely avacado salsa and invite the whole neighborhood over, and for the most part, everyone comes...except for that lame sidekick dude of Franks, cause Jimmy Dormandy comes in and waxes that guy in episode seven.
And they all look great in jeans, the whole time. /fin
I just don't need to hear Frank talk about how he is struggling and out of options anymore. I get it. I don't need to hear about it fourteen times an episode.
Don't you get it, sweetheart. All of his options are gone. Kaput. In the wind. He never figured on being poor again. He's out of options! And that doesn't even count for his piss poor avocado trees.
Post by 3post1jack1 on Jul 14, 2015 13:30:31 GMT -5
I agree with just about every criticism on the past page on this thread, too many agreements to quote individual posts. I've been reserving judgement, and I get no pleasure out of criticizing shows and movies and whatnot, I'd much prefer to find some good in everything. Having said that:
-The scenes with Vaughn and his wife are painful, which sucks because they are both typically good actors. I blame the material.
-The scene with Vaughn and the drug dealers was nonsense. Would make sense if his character was crazy but he's not. The cavity line was the dumbest thing I've seen yet.
-I also do not care who killed Casper. I don't care about the corruption.
-My wife, who is less willing to put up with a show's bullshit than I am, hit her fuck it button towards the end of the last episode. We almost just stopped watching it and started Ballers instead (which is GREAT and everyone should be watching it) but we pushed on. Glad we did, since at least the last scene was exciting, if way over the top. I'll admit I am interested in where we go from here, so I'll keep watching.
-Another reason I'll keep watching is because I care deeply about Colin's character. I care way more about him being OK than about anything else. And McAdams is wonderful as well, they are just great in their scenes together. I'm thinking they should have done a more focused series with just those two stars, cut out all the other perspectives.
I have no idea why he is so ashamed to be gay. I guess I'm interested in finding out what is going on with him, and I do think his acting is good. Hoping we are missing a part of the puzzle and he's not just a self hating homosexual in a vacuum.
