Whether it's your first Bonnaroo or you’re a music festival veteran, we welcome you to Inforoo.
Here you'll find info about artists, rumors, camping tips, and the infamous Roo Clues. Have a look around then create an account and join in the fun. See you at Bonnaroo!!
Idk, I completely understand what he means about the previous bc's feeling more like a series of concerts than a true music festival.
You mean this paragraph?
Harvard Athletic Complex provides Boston Calling with the ability to more than double their operation, allowing them to really compete with the likes of Governors Ball and Lollapalooza as they move more into the world of big festivals. “We were out of space,” Snow said. “We were having three concerts in a row and looking at it as a festival.”
He's right that BC is now able to compete in the big leagues, rather than have a smaller event with quality names but not the same type of national appeal.
But my comment was instigated by this part:
“Now the person is going to leave with more than just, ‘Hey, Mumford And Sons was really good tonight.’ It’s going to be an immersive experience where people can say, ‘Dude, did you see this art thing? Did you see these lights? Oh my god, I just ate this unbelievable sandwich from this food truck that is never by my work. And I got to see Mumford And Sons.’ That’s really what we’re going to do, and are excited to do.”
That's where my remark about the music being an afterthought came from. The festival isn't necessarily going in a wrong direction - just gotta avoid a scenario like this year's Firefly where they advertise with "FRIENDS" on their marketing materials as a reason to attend.
Considering the lineup they booked this year, I wouldn't worry about them putting music on the back burner at the moment.
He's right that BC is now able to compete in the big leagues, rather than have a smaller event with quality names but not the same type of national appeal.
But my comment was instigated by this part:
That's where my remark about the music being an afterthought came from. The festival isn't necessarily going in a wrong direction - just gotta avoid a scenario like this year's Firefly where they advertise with "FRIENDS" on their marketing materials as a reason to attend.
Considering the lineup they booked this year, I wouldn't worry about them putting music on the back burner at the moment.
The concern is more about the type of crowds. As in, marketing towards people who go to the fest to see their friends, versus people who attend the fest with their friends (predominantly because of the music). But that's a consideration all festivals have to deal with, not just BC.
Considering the lineup they booked this year, I wouldn't worry about them putting music on the back burner at the moment.
The concern is more about the type of crowds. As in, marketing towards people who go to the fest to see their friends, versus people who attend the fest with their friends (predominantly because of the music). But that's a consideration all festivals have to deal with, not just BC.
But that's already the people who go to Boston Calling. If anything, this year's lineup is slightly pushing things in the opposite direction.
There was barely any overlap between Primavera and Roo in the prior years.
Edit: in response to Launchpad
You should go look at those 2014 lineups again... There was quite a lot. Darkside, Neutral Milk Hotel, Disclosure, SBTRKT, ect, ect
I stand corrected for that particular year (edit: and 2016 somewhat as well).
But lets be serious: we all know that this is a moot point, and that Roo has simply chosen to cater to a low common denominator. Their prerogative from a business standpoint, but a loss for any serious musiclover who craves adventure and something different/new.
You should go look at those 2014 lineups again... There was quite a lot. Darkside, Neutral Milk Hotel, Disclosure, SBTRKT, ect, ect
I stand corrected for that particular year.
But lets be serious: we all know that this is a moot point, and that Roo has simply chosen to cater to a low common denominator. Their prerogative from a business standpoint, but a loss for any serious musiclover who craves adventure and something different/new.
I disagree. I think its a mix of market saturation and timing of the event.
There was barely any overlap between Primavera and Roo in the prior years.
Edit: in response to Launchpad
You should go look at those 2014 lineups again... There was quite a lot. Darkside, Neutral Milk Hotel, Disclosure, SBTRKT, ect, ect
On first glance LCD, Tame Impala, Vince Staples and Daughter played both fests last year. Primavera moving their dates is not the reason why Roo lineups have become stale and boring.
The concern is more about the type of crowds. As in, marketing towards people who go to the fest to see their friends, versus people who attend the fest with their friends (predominantly because of the music). But that's a consideration all festivals have to deal with, not just BC.
But that's already the people who go to Boston Calling. If anything, this year's lineup is slightly pushing things in the opposite direction.
You are right, though BC has always had this type of music. This year is exceptional in that the festival's bookings have stayed consistent while growing in scale, alongside booking the masterstroke that is Tool. I certainly hope that the increased influx of out-of-towners will make a positive crowd impact.
You should go look at those 2014 lineups again... There was quite a lot. Darkside, Neutral Milk Hotel, Disclosure, SBTRKT, ect, ect
On first glance LCD, Tame Impala, Vince Staples and Daughter played both fests last year. Primavera moving their dates is not the reason why Roo lineups have become stale and boring.
I am telling you it is (partially anyway). Used to be Primavera and then a few weeks of a gap before the rest of the Euro circuit kicked into high gear. Made sense to come back to the US and score an extra payday. Now theres not as much time and doesnt make as much sense... Unless you are an LCD or Tame and they make it worth your while to do so; or you are a Vince Staples and the overseas demand isnt really there.
But that's already the people who go to Boston Calling. If anything, this year's lineup is slightly pushing things in the opposite direction.
You are right, though BC has always had this type of music. This year is exceptional in that the festival's bookings have stayed consistent while growing in scale, alongside booking the masterstroke that is Tool. I certainly hope that the increased influx of out-of-towners will make a positive crowd impact.
So basically, don't worry about it for now. They're doing a good job, all this talk of focusing on aspects other than music is typical music fest talk.
However, I'm curious to see how many more non-locals will actually make it out considering Tool have a Maine show and BC shares 2/3 of their headliners with Gov Ball.
You are right, though BC has always had this type of music. This year is exceptional in that the festival's bookings have stayed consistent while growing in scale, alongside booking the masterstroke that is Tool. I certainly hope that the increased influx of out-of-towners will make a positive crowd impact.
So basically, don't worry about it for now. They're doing a good job, all this talk of focusing on aspects other than music is typical music fest talk.
However, I'm curious to see how many more non-locals will actually make it out considering Tool have a Maine show and BC shares 2/3 of their headliners with Gov Ball.
I like your optimism. I think the undercard will be a deciding factor for non-locals, even if they can see the headliners elsewhere.
Plus, that Tool show in Maine is all the way up in Bangor which is far as fuck from civilization.
On first glance LCD, Tame Impala, Vince Staples and Daughter played both fests last year. Primavera moving their dates is not the reason why Roo lineups have become stale and boring.
I am telling you it is (partially anyway). Used to be Primavera and then a few weeks of a gap before the rest of the Euro circuit kicked into high gear. Made sense to come back to the US and score an extra payday. Now theres not as much time and doesnt make as much sense... Unless you are an LCD or Tame and they make it worth your while to do so; or you are a Vince Staples and the overseas demand isnt really there.
Governors Ball has been the same weekend as Primavera over the last two years and they have been able to book more unique and interesting acts than Roo. How do you explain that ?
I am telling you it is (partially anyway). Used to be Primavera and then a few weeks of a gap before the rest of the Euro circuit kicked into high gear. Made sense to come back to the US and score an extra payday. Now theres not as much time and doesnt make as much sense... Unless you are an LCD or Tame and they make it worth your while to do so; or you are a Vince Staples and the overseas demand isnt really there.
Governors Ball has been the same weekend as Primavera over the last two years and they have been able to book more unique and interesting acts than Roo. How do you explain that?
Middle of NYC vs middle of nowhere Tennesee. Easier to book when you are in the biggest media market in the country.
So basically, don't worry about it for now. They're doing a good job, all this talk of focusing on aspects other than music is typical music fest talk.
However, I'm curious to see how many more non-locals will actually make it out considering Tool have a Maine show and BC shares 2/3 of their headliners with Gov Ball.
I like your optimism. I think the undercard will be a deciding factor for non-locals, even if they can see the headliners elsewhere.
Plus, that Tool show in Maine is all the way up in Bangor which is far as fuck from civilization.
That's a good point. I just drove up to Portland this past weekend and forgot how far Bangor is.
Now that you mention it, Sunday's undercard looks like it would sell well based on that alone: Weezer, Cage The Elephant, RTJ, and Major Lazer. Really excited and curious to see how this all works out!
Governors Ball has been the same weekend as Primavera over the last two years and they have been able to book more unique and interesting acts than Roo. How do you explain that?
Middle of NYC vs middle of nowhere Tennesee. Easier to book when you are in the biggest media market in the country.
Isn't Roo supposed to be more prestigious than GovBall though?
Also, I think we've been overlooking the fact that the people behind Madison Square Garden are now collaborating with Boston Calling for bookings, while Bonnaroo is stuck with Live Nation.
Middle of NYC vs middle of nowhere Tennesee. Easier to book when you are in the biggest media market in the country.
Isn't Roo supposed to be more prestigious than GovBall though?
Also, I think we've been overlooking the fact that the people behind Madison Square Garden are now collaborating with Boston Calling for bookings, while Bonnaroo is stuck with Live Nation.
I mean this is the fact that underscores every discussion about Bonnaroo's quality decline
Post by Launchpad McQuack on Mar 15, 2017 11:59:30 GMT -5
You just got done saying another LiveNation fest books interesting and unique lineups. LiveNation is not some monolith. They are a bank account for other people and companies to use. C3 books Roo. Same company that books ACL, Lolla, and Voo Doo.
You just got done saying another LiveNation fest books interesting and unique lineups. LiveNation is not some monolith. They are a bank account for other people and companies to use. C3 books Roo. Same company that books ACL, Lolla, and Voo Doo.
LN has been involved with GovBall for only a year. Who knows how that relationship is going to affect things there in the future. Whereas with Roo we have clear tangible negative results, as we have all spoken of and concluded in depth.
And if we need to blame C3 for Roo's decline in lieu of LN, so be it.
You just got done saying another LiveNation fest books interesting and unique lineups. LiveNation is not some monolith. They are a bank account for other people and companies to use. C3 books Roo. Same company that books ACL, Lolla, and Voo Doo.
LN has been involved with GovBall for only a year. Who knows how that relationship is going to affect things there in the future. Whereas with Roo we have clear tangible negative results, as we have all spoken of and concluded in depth.
And if we need to blame C3 for Roo's decline in lieu of LN, so be it.
In that year they have booked two festivals. The Meadows and Gov Ball. In the time LiveNation has been involved with Roo they have also done two festivals.
I think saying "its LiveNation's fault!" or "its C3's fault!" for that matter, is an oversimplification. There are many reasons, not just one, and not really anyone in particular's fault. Its a mix of oversaturation and timing.
Post by The Foot Fuckin' Master on Mar 15, 2017 12:19:50 GMT -5
Oversaturation, absolutely. Timing, maybe. But of course it is anyone in particular's fault: the type of change there is very deliberate as to their intended target audience.
On a side note, I noticed in the other thread you're going to BC this summer. Hope you have a good time.
Oversaturation, absolutely. Timing, maybe. But of course it is anyone in particular's fault: the type of change there is very deliberate as to their intended target audience.
On a side note, I noticed in the other thread you're going to BC this summer. Hope you have a good time.
It really isn't. I mean do you really think there was a meeting at LiveNation HQ where they said "Lets buy this popular successful brand, and change everything about it!".. I know for a fact LiveNation is very hands off with Gov Ball. If it aint broke, dont fix it. Same ppl who ran the show before, run it now. In Roo's case because of all the market problems it led to decreased attendance last year. So this year they decided to make a change and put C3 in charge of booking. And even though many on inforoo don't like this years lineup, they are seeing an improvement in their bottom line from last year. But there was never any conscious decision to appeal to a different audience or change the formula. Changes have grown out of necessity caused by hurdles in the market.
Oversaturation, absolutely. Timing, maybe. But of course it is anyone in particular's fault: the type of change there is very deliberate as to their intended target audience.
On a side note, I noticed in the other thread you're going to BC this summer. Hope you have a good time.
It really isn't. I mean do you really think there was a meeting at LiveNation HQ where they said "Lets buy this popular successful brand, and change everything about it!".. I know for a fact LiveNation is very hands off with Gov Ball. If it aint broke, dont fix it. Same ppl who ran the show before, run it now. In Roo's case because of all the market problems it led to decreased attendance last year. So this year they decided to make a change and put C3 in charge of booking. And even though many on inforoo don't like this years lineup, they are seeing an improvement in their bottom line from last year. But there was never any conscious decision to appeal to a different audience or change the formula. Changes have grown out of necessity caused by hurdles in the market.
Huh, then what about organizational changes such as shorter set-times and an artificial late night curfew? Both used to be a big part of the Bonnaroo brand. This board also did an excellent job dissecting why the 2015 lineup was partially to blame for the decreased attendance.
You are right with your last sentence. Hurdles in the market do indeed lead to necessary changes... which is not mutually exclusive at all with appealing to a different audience or changing the formula. In fact, you would expect a correlation there. How could that not be a conscious decision?
It really isn't. I mean do you really think there was a meeting at LiveNation HQ where they said "Lets buy this popular successful brand, and change everything about it!".. I know for a fact LiveNation is very hands off with Gov Ball. If it aint broke, dont fix it. Same ppl who ran the show before, run it now. In Roo's case because of all the market problems it led to decreased attendance last year. So this year they decided to make a change and put C3 in charge of booking. And even though many on inforoo don't like this years lineup, they are seeing an improvement in their bottom line from last year. But there was never any conscious decision to appeal to a different audience or change the formula. Changes have grown out of necessity caused by hurdles in the market.
Huh, then what about organizational changes such as shorter set-times and an artificial late night curfew? Both used to be a big part of the Bonnaroo brand. This board also did an excellent job dissecting why the 2015 lineup was partially to blame for the decreased attendance.
You are right with your last sentence. Hurdles in the market do indeed lead to necessary changes... which is not mutually exclusive at all with appealing to a different audience or changing the formula. In fact, you would expect a correlation there. How could that not be a conscious decision?
No idea what the organizational changes are about. I doubt it was a LiveNation mandate or anything like that though.
There is a difference between "Shit, we don't have the ability to book certain acts anymore, so lets book these other acts that we feel will also draw, get the biggest headliner we possibly can, and hope for the best," and "LiveNation is in charge now bitches, and we want Bonnaroo to be a bad EDM festival that ends early every night!"
Post by The Foot Fuckin' Master on Mar 15, 2017 13:09:22 GMT -5
Those organizational changes were clearly a expense-cutting effort, since it does cost extra money to have bands play longer and to have the farm go all night (due to crew working longer hours in both cases). Wouldn't be surprising if these decisions came from higher up, or at least to please their new equity owners/overlords.
I unfortunately don't have the time right now to count other acts that Roo could have possibly and realistically booked in lieu of what they came up with (I'd love to do such an analysis). But I think you're letting LN/C3/whoever off the hook too easily. This same thing has happened with large European festivals (e.g., Pinkpop, Rock Werchter, Lowlands, Sziget) that have turned more mainstream over the years and lost their original subversive appeal.
I think what really ends up rubbing me the wrong way about the whole thing, and this actually gets us back to what started this discussion, is this fairly clear effort on Bonnaroo's part right now to really hype up the whole culture of the festival. Once you start branding it like that, all of the magic that happens naturally when you get a ton of people and some great music in that sort of setting begins to feel forced and manufactured.
I think what really ends up rubbing me the wrong way about the whole thing, and this actually gets us back to what started this discussion, is this fairly clear effort on Bonnaroo's part right now to really hype up the whole culture of the festival. Once you start branding it like that, all of the magic that happens naturally when you get a ton of people and some great music in that sort of setting begins to feel forced and manufactured.
The high-fives between people when walking through the snaking entrance line used to feel fun. Now it feels required.
