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That class is stacked, were about to enter my golden era of hall of fame and that's exciting. All of them were probably in my top 10 favorites at any given time.
That class is stacked, were about to enter my golden era of hall of fame and that's exciting. All of them were probably in my top 10 favorites at any given time.
That class is stacked, were about to enter my golden era of hall of fame and that's exciting. All of them were probably in my top 10 favorites at any given time.
Ray Lewis is still a murderer.
Baltimore still turns a blind eye when it comes to Lewis, so fuck the Ravens forever more.
As far as Ray goes, he wasnt ever guilty of murder, that's the way things go sometimes. The league has also come a lot further in the last two decades on cracking down on things so I would bet his career would look different if it happened today, unfortunately that's also the way things go sometimes. To his credit he has done significantly more to be charitable and be somewhat of a role model than say OJ Simpson. I'm pretty sure the Hall is supposed to take only on field issues only and that's probably a separate problem on it's own, but Ray Lewis the football player is one of the best defensive players of all time. I'm also pretty sure that Vick will get in as well (he's a ground breaking player, has records, did well in MVP voting for two different teams, and had some level of playoff success) and it's unfortunate that will probably more of an issue with people than Ray Lewis who yeah probably murdered someone.
I'm not saying that Lewis' on they field play doesn't merit going into the Hall. What I am saying is that he's not someone that I could ever root for. He's a murderer. Who then rolled over on his friend (friends?). And has acted hooker than thou ever since. Hell no I'd never root for that POS.
And I'd be fine with them kicking OJ out of the Hall.
I don't think that Vick should've been allowed to return to the NFL and I don't think that his journeyman career merits inclusion in the Hall.
Well, that piece of commentary has certainly changed my mind. LOL. No mention of his bloody link or missing suit?
Lewis never directly linked his two friends to the killings, and they were acquitted. Lewis had testified that Oakley, Sweeting and another man had gone to a sporting goods store the previous day to buy knives. Baker's blood later was found in Lewis' limo. Having fled the crime scene, Lewis told the limo's passengers to "keep their mouths shut." The white suit Lewis was wearing that night — on Super Bowl Sunday — never was found.
I don't think that Vick should've been allowed to return to the NFL and I don't think that his journeyman career merits inclusion in the Hall.
Vick was the first African American qb drafted #1 overall, has multiple records which it's possible Cam can break them but I'd bet against it. He's a transformative player.
Playing in professional sports isn't a privilege imo and a lot of people unfairly feel that way. What you're saying is anyone who is committed of a crime and serves time, reforms themselves, and tries to return to their career shouldn't. If they're a politician, or a doctor/lawyer, something where you get licensed and need a level of trust to do the job, sure. What he did was wrong and heinous, but he has done everything he can to rectify, as opposed to someone like Greg Hardy et. al people who were essentially unapologetic and continued to be a problem.
Well, that piece of commentary has certainly changed my mind. LOL. No mention of his bloody link or missing suit?
Lewis never directly linked his two friends to the killings, and they were acquitted. Lewis had testified that Oakley, Sweeting and another man had gone to a sporting goods store the previous day to buy knives. Baker's blood later was found in Lewis' limo. Having fled the crime scene, Lewis told the limo's passengers to "keep their mouths shut." The white suit Lewis was wearing that night — on Super Bowl Sunday — never was found.
it's very easy for the two other guys to have done the stabbing and then gotten blood on him and the limo. Blood is messy, especially with people who have been drinking.
I don't think that Vick should've been allowed to return to the NFL and I don't think that his journeyman career merits inclusion in the Hall.
Vick was the first African American qb drafted #1 overall, has multiple records which it's possible Cam can break them but I'd bet against it. He's a transformative player.
Playing in professional sports isn't a privilege imo and a lot of people unfairly feel that way. What you're saying is anyone who is committed of a crime and serves time, reforms themselves, and tries to return to their career shouldn't. If they're a politician, or a doctor/lawyer, something where you get licensed and need a level of trust to do the job, sure. What he did was wrong and heinous, but he has done everything he can to rectify, as opposed to someone like Greg Hardy et. al people who were essentially unapologetic and continued to be a problem.
First of all, I don't care that he was the first African American QB to go #1. The Bills drafted the first Chinese born player but you don't see me lobbying for Ed Wang to be inducted. My point is, draft position, while notable, is not a reason to give him HOF consideration.
He was a good QB but not a great one. Career completion rate of 56.2%, only cleared 60% twice. Never got his team to the Super Bowl.
Second of all, playing in the NFL is more of a privilege than a right, that's for sure. I'm all for rehabilitation (it's nice that he learned that dog murder is bad) but I wouldn't have reinstated him into the league. People were buying his jersey. Young kids were looking up to him. That sort of criminal behavior should not allow you to return to your regularly scheduled life two years later, IMO.
Well, that piece of commentary has certainly changed my mind. LOL. No mention of his bloody link or missing suit?
it's very easy for the two other guys to have done the stabbing and then gotten blood on him and the limo. Blood is messy, especially with people who have been drinking.
it's very easy for the two other guys to have done the stabbing and then gotten blood on him and the limo. Blood is messy, especially with people who have been drinking.
Okay now I'm convinced.
By all means, hold on to all uninformed preconceptions.
You're not informed until you read a cbs news article that has such bullet points as: -Ray lewis was not involved in a murder -Ray lewis is not a murderer
You're not informed until you read a cbs news article that has such bullet points as: -Ray lewis was not involved in a murder -Ray lewis is not a murderer
Vick was the first African American qb drafted #1 overall, has multiple records which it's possible Cam can break them but I'd bet against it. He's a transformative player.
Playing in professional sports isn't a privilege imo and a lot of people unfairly feel that way. What you're saying is anyone who is committed of a crime and serves time, reforms themselves, and tries to return to their career shouldn't. If they're a politician, or a doctor/lawyer, something where you get licensed and need a level of trust to do the job, sure. What he did was wrong and heinous, but he has done everything he can to rectify, as opposed to someone like Greg Hardy et. al people who were essentially unapologetic and continued to be a problem.
First of all, I don't care that he was the first African American QB to go #1. The Bills drafted the first Chinese born player but you don't see me lobbying for Ed Wang to be inducted. My point is, draft position, while notable, is not a reason to give him HOF consideration.
He was a good QB but not a great one. Career completion rate of 56.2%, only cleared 60% twice. Never got his team to the Super Bowl.
Second of all, playing in the NFL is more of a privilege than a right, that's for sure. I'm all for rehabilitation (it's nice that he learned that dog murder is bad) but I wouldn't have reinstated him into the league. People were buying his jersey. Young kids were looking up to him. That sort of criminal behavior should not allow you to return to your regularly scheduled life two years later, IMO.
He holds the career record in yards per carry, and has the most rushing yards for a QB in a career and in a particular season. He completely transformed the QB position in the NFL when he came to the league. Not to mention he had what most consider the all-time comeback season.
As far as never going to the Super Bowl, if he would have won one of those conference championship games against McNabb Eagles in the early 2000's, would you have thought of him as a great QB instead of a good QB?
I can totally understand the moral thinking behind it, how he handled dogs is one of the most despicable acts a person can do. But to point to his completion rate and say "he was good but not great" is a weak argument.
You're not informed until you read a cbs news article that has such bullet points as: -Ray lewis was not involved in a murder -Ray lewis is not a murderer
Persuasive stuff
Why would i want to persuade you?
Well if you didn't post that article with the intent of persuasion, I guess it's safe to assume your intent was to make yourself look foolish
First of all, I don't care that he was the first African American QB to go #1. The Bills drafted the first Chinese born player but you don't see me lobbying for Ed Wang to be inducted. My point is, draft position, while notable, is not a reason to give him HOF consideration.
He was a good QB but not a great one. Career completion rate of 56.2%, only cleared 60% twice. Never got his team to the Super Bowl.
Second of all, playing in the NFL is more of a privilege than a right, that's for sure. I'm all for rehabilitation (it's nice that he learned that dog murder is bad) but I wouldn't have reinstated him into the league. People were buying his jersey. Young kids were looking up to him. That sort of criminal behavior should not allow you to return to your regularly scheduled life two years later, IMO.
He holds the career record in yards per carry, and has the most rushing yards for a QB in a career and in a particular season. He completely transformed the QB position in the NFL when he came to the league. Not to mention he had what most consider the all-time comeback season.
As far as never going to the Super Bowl, if he would have won one of those conference championship games against McNabb Eagles in the early 2000's, would you have thought of him as a great QB instead of a good QB?
I can totally understand the moral thinking behind it, how he handled dogs is one of the most despicable acts a person can do. But to point to his completion rate and say "he was good but not great" is a weak argument.
So... your argument is that we should take into account his running stats but not his passing ones? Sounds like a sound argument for a HOF career.
Legacy of black players in the history of a very white league, at an especially white position is important. I'm sure the first African American ____ across the board is probably represented in the hall in some way. I think comparing a late round OT who never really had any significant play time is very dismissive (and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if that factoid was some where in the hall). It's closer imo to someone like Yao, minus the morals.
Marino had just 3 seasons above 60% completion, and also never went to a Superbowl. What Marino was to passing qbs, Vick is to rushing QBs. They're both record breaking transformative players that happened to not be on amazing teams or have great coaches.
And it's not a privilege, it requires an incredible amount of work, is incredibly damaging to their life expectancy, the money has been proven to not guaranteed, and it's not just something your should be "grateful" for and not seek reinstatement as a player. Most of these guys aren't getting as good of an education/are literally having their brains destroyed from their youth because of a sick cultural fascination with the sport. what youre essentially saying is that someone cleared by the court system, who has served time, should not be allowed to do the one thing they love/have been taught/have been forced to do/have done all their lives (in a way that isn't a banker being a thief, a doctor being a murderer, a pedophile being a teacher). That's a whole different problem and is so much deeper than "I think Vick shouldn't be reinstated because he killed dogs". That's on the courts, the education system in VA, the laws regarding mistreatment of animals, world cultural attitude towards animal fighting, etc. Similarly to Lewis, it's a miracle more underprivileged kids who grow up around gang activity, who are driven by testosterone and thrown into a gladiator environment don't kill everyone who tries to fight them in clubs.
Also it shouldn't be the NFLs job to be a second layer to the court system. We've seen how that becomes murky recently.
He holds the career record in yards per carry, and has the most rushing yards for a QB in a career and in a particular season. He completely transformed the QB position in the NFL when he came to the league. Not to mention he had what most consider the all-time comeback season.
As far as never going to the Super Bowl, if he would have won one of those conference championship games against McNabb Eagles in the early 2000's, would you have thought of him as a great QB instead of a good QB?
I can totally understand the moral thinking behind it, how he handled dogs is one of the most despicable acts a person can do. But to point to his completion rate and say "he was good but not great" is a weak argument.
So... your argument is that we should take into account his running stats but not his passing ones? Sounds like a sound argument for a HOF career.
Farve has the most turnovers in history, he also had a brutal one in the playoffs that essentially ended his career and cost his team his chance at a Superbowl.
He holds the career record in yards per carry, and has the most rushing yards for a QB in a career and in a particular season. He completely transformed the QB position in the NFL when he came to the league. Not to mention he had what most consider the all-time comeback season.
As far as never going to the Super Bowl, if he would have won one of those conference championship games against McNabb Eagles in the early 2000's, would you have thought of him as a great QB instead of a good QB?
I can totally understand the moral thinking behind it, how he handled dogs is one of the most despicable acts a person can do. But to point to his completion rate and say "he was good but not great" is a weak argument.
So... your argument is that we should take into account his running stats but not his passing ones? Sounds like a sound argument for a HOF career.
I think what peppers meant was that leaning on any stat blindly is not an intelligent way to judge players. Completion percentage is similar to ERA in baseball. It’s not controllable solely by the QB. It depends on the offensive line, the hands of receivers, how well receivers run routes, play calling, the strength of a running game, etc. Leaning on a statistics alone is not the way to do it.
To get back on track I think the Pats will win. I also am starting to come around to sad Andy Reid watching his QB and assistant coach win a SB without him so I'll be kind of rooting for the eagles.
