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The negative feedback is odd because Live Nation and GV and everyone have been working on numerous plans like this for months. This was always gonna be a possibility once they realized that their whole year was lost.
Book production is still on hold. There have not been any updates. If you prefer to get a refund instead of waiting it out, just let us know. I wish I had more details for ya.
1. People complaining about the invasiveness probably own iPhones and use Google. This is nothing new. Idk, the whole freedom crowd has made this process exponentially worse. Idc about GV knowing I got a vaccine, I prefer it 2. Based on my experience, the tests have become kinda cheap, like $5. Can’t see it driving prices up that much. 3. Idk what you’re saying here.
Given it's fully opt-in, I can't imagine complaints about invasiveness. Don't want to do it? You don't get to go to a show. Your choice.
I think it's a good plan but requires a major improvement in our testing abilities. It's still unnecessarily difficult to get same day test results back. We need daily rapid tests for every person in America; thankfully this is something I've seen Vivek Murthy (Biden's taskforce head) talk about the need for as well, so hopefully after January we can make some progress on that.
I can only see this working if Live Nation/TM/promoters offer no-questions asked refunds at any time - which they will never do. Otherwise 3rd parties(without any oversight) have access to private medical information otherwise protected by HIPAA laws - including who has tested positive for Covid. Do I get a refund if barred from entering a venue? If 1 person from a known household is positive and rest test negative - can the 3 still attend even though CDC rules suggest quarantine?
Any artist requested transfer ticket rules likely have to be lifted. For security pat downs in venues with sports and concerts might mean staff have to get tested 5 times every 2 week period.
Will every dinner theater/country bar/metal-punk bar be doing this?
Giving Live Nation access to private medical databases is a very bad idea. Otherwise forged negative paper results will be too easy/tempting. What is someone from Vancouver Canada wishes to attend a show in Seattle after the border opens? If the double check tests via database, what happens when the website crashes(which I guarantee will be a recurring event).
I read in the past that 25% of TM sales were sales when the buyer does not attend. Family/Kids/gifts/corporate schmooze. There's also those without any cell phone, which I think is higher than the claimed 5%. Are walk-up day-of sales off limits?
You guys think GV still drops a lineup in early January?
GV will want to be the 1st to announce, when they are confident of the go-ahead. Can't see them waiting for May when other majors have dropped their lineups.
Festivals in Europe announce sizable chunks(some times 70% of the talent budget) of their lineup 7-9 months in advance.
It’s not really going to be a private medical database I’d imagine.
Failed to attend = 98% chance of Live Nation(probably credit card company as well for "paperless" shows) knowing you have Covid. HIPAA laws enter the picture.
A paper "negative" test result or phone screen shot can be easily forged/photo shopped. How are they verifying test results without computer access?
Football/Country music fans who do tailgating before their event won't be a friendly bunch when denied access or complying with the whole process.
The point would be you opt in when purchasing the ticket to share that one piece of medical data with TM/LN, and by opting in, HIPAA would not apply.
What about the hundreds of tours that were sold pre-covid that should go ahead over the next 18 months?
Refund/Transfer fine print has to change. I can only see the above working if LN/TM offer no-questions asked refund at any point. Will they ever do that?
Another issue is college towns with 100,000 football games have to get that many tests done in 3 days. Who takes the financial hit if tests are not done on time?
The point would be you opt in when purchasing the ticket to share that one piece of medical data with TM/LN, and by opting in, HIPAA would not apply.
What about the hundreds of tours that were sold pre-covid that should go ahead over the next 18 months?
Refund/Transfer fine print has to change. I can only see the above working if LN/TM offer no-questions asked refund at any point. Will they ever do that?
Another issue is college towns with 100,000 football games have to get that many tests done in 3 days. Who takes the financial hit if tests are not done on time?
That...I don't know. I assume it'd be some sort of "opt in or we'll refund you" situation. Realistically I don't expect this sort of plan to go through, but I'm glad they're at least planning.
What about the hundreds of tours that were sold pre-covid that should go ahead over the next 18 months?
Refund/Transfer fine print has to change. I can only see the above working if LN/TM offer no-questions asked refund at any point. Will they ever do that?
Another issue is college towns with 100,000 football games have to get that many tests done in 3 days. Who takes the financial hit if tests are not done on time?
That...I don't know. I assume it'd be some sort of "opt in or we'll refund you" situation. Realistically I don't expect this sort of plan to go through, but I'm glad they're at least planning.
The billboard TM article the other day said the new vaccine gives 1 year of immunity - which isn't known or reported else where or can't be currently known.
I also wonder if when shows return there will be crazy demand for any half decent event or fans will are still timid or find these possible TM rules too much of a hassle. Because the "refund" thing could be heavily abused by fans selling full priced tickets bought for cheap last minute tickets on stub hub - switching up CC accounts if need be.
Post by pineapplesinmyhead on Nov 12, 2020 22:32:58 GMT -5
I got a survey from chase center (sf) about enhanced covid measures . They asked about rapid result testing at the arena and I think that would be the best option . But as far as I know those rapid tests are kinda shit . Idk I’m so desperate at this point to go to a show I would be willing to hand over the medical data . But Ticketmaster really isn’t the greatest so I’m sure I would regret it later .
That...I don't know. I assume it'd be some sort of "opt in or we'll refund you" situation. Realistically I don't expect this sort of plan to go through, but I'm glad they're at least planning.
The billboard TM article the other day said the new vaccine gives 1 year of immunity - which isn't known or reported else where or can't be currently known.
I also wonder if when shows return there will be crazy demand for any half decent event or fans will are still timid or find these possible TM rules too much of a hassle. Because the "refund" thing could be heavily abused by fans selling full priced tickets bought for cheap last minute tickets on stub hub - switching up CC accounts if need be.
These are a lot of questions that I’m sure Live Nation have already been going over.
The negative feedback is odd because Live Nation and GV and everyone have been working on numerous plans like this for months. This was always gonna be a possibility once they realized that their whole year was lost.
I thought I saw a report that most fans are actually OK with this.
Also, a correction came out that Ticketmaster won't be enforcing this. It would ultimately be up to the venue if they want to do this. It's also just an idea at the moment, no policies have been written.
Looks like Lacob and the Warriors are pushing for 50% capacity. They plan to use more accurate (read: expensive) rapid PCR tests.
I’ll be interested to see if they can gain approval for this. It might be an interesting California case study.
Lacob said the Warriors are prepared to spend upwards of $30 million to test every fan, Warriors employee or player with the most accurate form of COVID-19 testing for each home game or day they come to work at Chase Center.
"I not only want to get this done and show the world how we can do it now, I'm willing to spend the money to do it," said Lacob, who holds a master's degree in public health from UCLA, and built his fortune as a venture capitalist in biotechnology. "This is a serious, serious problem. It cannot go on for multiple years ... because if this were to go on for several years, the NBA is no more.
Looks like Lacob and the Warriors are pushing for 50% capacity. They plan to use more accurate (read: expensive) rapid PCR tests.
I’ll be interested to see if they can gain approval for this. It might be an interesting California case study.
Lacob said the Warriors are prepared to spend upwards of $30 million to test every fan, Warriors employee or player with the most accurate form of COVID-19 testing for each home game or day they come to work at Chase Center.
"I not only want to get this done and show the world how we can do it now, I'm willing to spend the money to do it," said Lacob, who holds a master's degree in public health from UCLA, and built his fortune as a venture capitalist in biotechnology. "This is a serious, serious problem. It cannot go on for multiple years ... because if this were to go on for several years, the NBA is no more.
I came here to post this article and specifically this quote:
"The Warriors' initial plan calls for fans to be tested onsite at Chase Center or at drive-up locations around the Bay Area within 48 hours of the game. They have partnered with CLEAR, the company that uses corneal scans and fingerprints to identify preapproved air travelers, to link test results to the ticket holder on a mobile device."
I promise this will be the same system for vaccines. This is the end game
Post by piggy pablo on Nov 13, 2020 9:11:20 GMT -5
On-site testing I can see. I'm not sure I would personally go through the trouble of scheduling a COVID test so I can then go through the time and expense it would take to attend the game a day or two later. Maybe some would, but idk, sounds like a big hassle when I could just watch a game at home. Music festival, though, multi-day event, much more important to be there live, different story.
I would add that if you had masks required, it was outdoors, and you had a 99% effective rapid test, I would personally feel safe going to a show. No idea what the vibe would be, but I would feel safe. Even indoors, I'd consider it, but it would be more borderline.
Post by piggy pablo on Nov 13, 2020 9:23:53 GMT -5
I'd be fine even if just the test was that accurate, I think, even inside. Masks would still be good, but if COVID was less prevalent overall than it is now and tests were that effective, 1/100th of infected people getting in, in a population where let's say half a percent of people have it, that's a very small proportion of infected people getting in, approaching zero.
I still go to the grocery store and restaurants for takeout, etc. and no one there is probably tested at all, people have masks hanging down under their nose, people don't respect my personal space, but on some level I have to live my life, which might just mean I have to eat (or sometimes drink, tbh). I like using DoorDash sometimes to avoid that, and grocery pickup/delivery, but then I'm just externalizing that risk to someone else and I feel conflicted on the morality of that, especially DD.
I'd be fine even if just the test was that accurate, I think, even inside. Masks would still be good, but if COVID was less prevalent overall than it is now and tests were that effective, 1/100th of infected people getting in, in a population where let's say half a percent of people have it, that's a very small proportion of infected people getting in, approaching zero.
I still go to the grocery store and restaurants for takeout, etc. and no one there is probably tested at all, people have masks hanging down under their nose, people don't respect my personal space, but on some level I have to live my life, which might just mean I have to eat (or sometimes drink, tbh). I like using DoorDash sometimes to avoid that, but then I'm just externalizing that risk to someone else and I feel conflicted on the morality of that.
ya from what I have read though the lack of long period of exposure to one person in the form of being next to someone in the grocery store changes the math on it significantly. Obviously at a game or show you will be near the people around you for the whole event.
I'd be fine even if just the test was that accurate, I think, even inside. Masks would still be good, but if COVID was less prevalent overall than it is now and tests were that effective, 1/100th of infected people getting in, in a population where let's say half a percent of people have it, that's a very small proportion of infected people getting in, approaching zero.
I still go to the grocery store and restaurants for takeout, etc. and no one there is probably tested at all, people have masks hanging down under their nose, people don't respect my personal space, but on some level I have to live my life, which might just mean I have to eat (or sometimes drink, tbh). I like using DoorDash sometimes to avoid that, but then I'm just externalizing that risk to someone else and I feel conflicted on the morality of that.
ya from what I have read though the lack of long period of exposure to one person in the form of being next to someone in the grocery store changes the math on it significantly. Obviously at a game or show you will be near the people around you for the whole event.
True. And proximity is going to be way closer at a show. But like, let's say a medium to largeish-sized venue of 2000, 1% false negatives, and .5% prevalence, just as a rough sketch. 2000*.01*.005=.1 people having it at the show, so most likely no one in the venue has it, or maybe one person does. That's pretty low-risk at that point.
If they are having to test on site then they shouldn't be having the festival.
I think this is right. If the vaccine isn’t out and widely available and if case numbers in this country aren’t lower than they’ve been at basically any point this year, they shouldn’t be doing this shit. Testing probably still makes sense even under those conditions, but no amount of testing will make a music festival “safe.”
If they are having to test on site then they shouldn't be having the festival.
The right course of action IMO is to have smaller venues work on this test and check protocol suggested by the warriors to have some income, and so these companies can get used to the logistics of checking patrons' health info. Then, once the vaccine is out, larger venues and festivals roll out with the same sort of health info checking but for vaccination proof.
Post by 3post1jack1 on Nov 13, 2020 10:40:06 GMT -5
if there was a festival say, in my city I wanted to go to that did rapid testing, and if you failed the rapid test they refunded your ticket, i might risk it, because all I'd lose is a little bit of time. but i certainly wouldn't risk any significant travel or any situation that requires a hotel room or other expenses based on the whims of a not totally accurate rapid test. to much stress thinking about being turned away.
and it's hard for me to wrap my head around the logistics of rapid testing at a festival gate. it's a complicated step to add to the already complicated process of getting people into a festival, checking tickets, searches, etc.
reduced capacity at a festival means very little. while it would give some people the option of getting a better spot in the field without too many people around them, there will still be people crammed together at the front of the stage for multiple hours together, talking, screaming, and singing. and for tent shows or smaller stages it'll really do nothing.
i think it's gunna have to be vaccine or bust. some sort of authentication process for proof of vaccination.
i do appreciate festival organizers trying to make it happen. they are in a shit situation, as are live music fans.
