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Post by problem dog on Nov 13, 2020 10:44:40 GMT -5
Vaccine obviously changes everything, but this is an odd conversation to be having right now when US spread is worse than it's ever been. I previously thought we'd get a poster in January with October dates, but that seems like a tacky thing to do assuming numbers keep surging after the holidays.
Post by piggy pablo on Nov 13, 2020 10:54:57 GMT -5
Yeah, this is all pretty unrealistic, including the Warriors thing. *If* they could test on-site like that, I think it would be fine. If anything, it would mean more people getting tested who otherwise maybe wouldn't, which is just the sad state of affairs right now. But I don't think they have the capacity to do that for 8-10k people at 41 basketball games a year, and definitely not as it pertains to Coachella. If it were to get to that point, that would essentially mean testing was so easy and ubiquitous it would be like buying an at-home drug test, which would have a greater societal impact that would make a lot of this moot. And that isn't probably going to be happening any sooner than mass vaccination.
Vaccine obviously changes everything, but this is an odd conversation to be having right now when US spread is worse than it's ever been. I previously thought we'd get a poster in January with October dates, but that seems like a tacky thing to do assuming numbers keep surging after the holidays.
If they are having to test on site then they shouldn't be having the festival.
Even when the vaccine is out, it's going to take maybe 2 years to fully roll out to the entire population. On top of that, there is going to be a group of people who outright refuse to take it. Testing on site even with a vaccine is the best protocol.
If they are having to test on site then they shouldn't be having the festival.
Even when the vaccine is out, it's going to take maybe 2 years to fully roll out to the entire population. On top of that, there is going to be a group of people who outright refuse to take it. Testing on site even with a vaccine is the best protocol.
All of this just sounds like more reasons why they shouldn't have a festival next fall. April 2022 seems the most feasible.
If they are having to test on site then they shouldn't be having the festival.
Even when the vaccine is out, it's going to take maybe 2 years to fully roll out to the entire population. On top of that, there is going to be a group of people who outright refuse to take it. Testing on site even with a vaccine is the best protocol.
I dont think this is true. Theres going to be 2 or 3 different vaccines that will get across the finish line in the next 2 to 3 months most likely, not just the pfizer supply. maybe 2 years to roll out to the world, but the US should be fully vaccinated pretty quickly
Yeah, I think just about the one thing the US did right was pour absurd amounts of money into vaccines. Vaccinating the world will take time but I imagine most of the US, especially areas that have the capacity to host large scale events will be vaccinated by Q3.
Even when the vaccine is out, it's going to take maybe 2 years to fully roll out to the entire population. On top of that, there is going to be a group of people who outright refuse to take it. Testing on site even with a vaccine is the best protocol.
I dont think this is true. Theres going to be 2 or 3 different vaccines that will get across the finish line in the next 2 to 3 months most likely, not just the pfizer supply. maybe 2 years to roll out to the world, but the US should be fully vaccinated pretty quickly
agree. and the other alternative to rapid testing, proof of vaccination, etc., is just wait for the spread of the virus to slow as people get vaccinated. i don't know the math but i imagine spread would drop considerably even with only a 50% vaccination rate? not sure if that's reasonable i'm just a guy on the internet.
Most of the US still has a lack of adequate testing after 6+ months. Don’t see 100s of millions of vaccines rolling out that quick.
And Donald Trump is still president. That will change in January.
Covid is already a disaster but it’s getting worse every day with no signs that we’re going to do anything about it. By the time January rolls around it’s scary to think where the US will be. For me it’s hard to imagine that even getting a competent administration in at the end of January is gonna have us turned around and having large scale events in less than 6 months.
I came here to post this article and specifically this quote:
"The Warriors' initial plan calls for fans to be tested onsite at Chase Center or at drive-up locations around the Bay Area within 48 hours of the game. They have partnered with CLEAR, the company that uses corneal scans and fingerprints to identify preapproved air travelers, to link test results to the ticket holder on a mobile device."
I promise this will be the same system for vaccines. This is the end game
I take it that every attendee has to have a phone that passed venue approval. Does this mean Cell phone/CC companies know your fingerprints/cornea ID/negative test results now?
Hard pass.
If there is an outbreak from one of the 10% unsuccessful vaccine recipients and the venues knows you sat beside them for 3 hours what is done with that information?
I'd be fine even if just the test was that accurate, I think, even inside. Masks would still be good, but if COVID was less prevalent overall than it is now and tests were that effective, 1/100th of infected people getting in, in a population where let's say half a percent of people have it, that's a very small proportion of infected people getting in, approaching zero.
I still go to the grocery store and restaurants for takeout, etc. and no one there is probably tested at all, people have masks hanging down under their nose, people don't respect my personal space, but on some level I have to live my life, which might just mean I have to eat (or sometimes drink, tbh). I like using DoorDash sometimes to avoid that, but then I'm just externalizing that risk to someone else and I feel conflicted on the morality of that.
ya from what I have read though the lack of long period of exposure to one person in the form of being next to someone in the grocery store changes the math on it significantly. Obviously at a game or show you will be near the people around you for the whole event.
So going to a local arena event now has more security layers than flying on a plane across country or abroad with recycled air in a metal tube the size of a grocery aisle?
if there was a festival say, in my city I wanted to go to that did rapid testing, and if you failed the rapid test they refunded your ticket, i might risk it, because all I'd lose is a little bit of time. but i certainly wouldn't risk any significant travel or any situation that requires a hotel room or other expenses based on the whims of a not totally accurate rapid test. to much stress thinking about being turned away.
and it's hard for me to wrap my head around the logistics of rapid testing at a festival gate. it's a complicated step to add to the already complicated process of getting people into a festival, checking tickets, searches, etc.
reduced capacity at a festival means very little. while it would give some people the option of getting a better spot in the field without too many people around them, there will still be people crammed together at the front of the stage for multiple hours together, talking, screaming, and singing. and for tent shows or smaller stages it'll really do nothing.
i think it's gunna have to be vaccine or bust. some sort of authentication process for proof of vaccination.
i do appreciate festival organizers trying to make it happen. they are in a shit situation, as are live music fans.
I can see it where you have to go to some kind of off-site box office to get a festival wrist band after proving vaccination or recent clear test. With the impossible to remove wristband you can go to the festival that has a 1 mile radius roped off with only wristband access. Coachella did/do the 1 mile radius thing after the 2010 debacle. Obviously some venues like Lolla/Chicago is tougher inside the downtown core.
I prefer Vaccine ID cards(like plastic drivers licence) or dated/coded/ID'd test wristbands(non-removable coachella ones) for access to events rather than everything tied to cell phones with nefarious data mining implications.
Scanning ID cards is no different than casinos here or certain night clubs that are very familiar to police.
Yeah, I think just about the one thing the US did right was pour absurd amounts of money into vaccines. Vaccinating the world will take time but I imagine most of the US, especially areas that have the capacity to host large scale events will be vaccinated by Q3.
I take it that a potential Oct 2021 Coachella will only be open to US/CDN residents.
The billboard TM article the other day said the new vaccine gives 1 year of immunity - which isn't known or reported else where or can't be currently known.
I also wonder if when shows return there will be crazy demand for any half decent event or fans will are still timid or find these possible TM rules too much of a hassle. Because the "refund" thing could be heavily abused by fans selling full priced tickets bought for cheap last minute tickets on stub hub - switching up CC accounts if need be.
These are a lot of questions that I’m sure Live Nation have already been going over.
This is about legal indemnity on the business end, seeing if fans will take 100% of the health onus while giving up all consumer rights because they are itching for concerts. LN want to be full steam ahead and ask lawyers how far they think they can push it to protect their end. LN will want you to click a button to give up all consumer rights.
Positive test = you & party probably eat your ticket. False positive test = eat the tickets. You are scared of events = eat your tickets. Local testing lacking hours/locations/capacity = eat your tickets. Promoter moves a show last minute = you can't get a refund and have to do the new date(TM have already done this to some degree in the past 9 months)
With or without ticket transfer rules, your CC/phone could be aware of likely positive test results when a ticket was unused. Family/Friends will know of likely positive tests if you try to sell/give away tickets.
The negative feedback is odd because Live Nation and GV and everyone have been working on numerous plans like this for months. This was always gonna be a possibility once they realized that their whole year was lost.
I thought I saw a report that most fans are actually OK with this.
Also, a correction came out that Ticketmaster won't be enforcing this. It would ultimately be up to the venue if they want to do this. It's also just an idea at the moment, no policies have been written.
I think TM/LN/Promoters/venues are testing the waters on public response to various measures. They may have float suggested heavy restrictions now, so the real ones pale in comparison down the road.
Even when the vaccine is out, it's going to take maybe 2 years to fully roll out to the entire population. On top of that, there is going to be a group of people who outright refuse to take it. Testing on site even with a vaccine is the best protocol.
I dont think this is true. Theres going to be 2 or 3 different vaccines that will get across the finish line in the next 2 to 3 months most likely, not just the pfizer supply. maybe 2 years to roll out to the world, but the US should be fully vaccinated pretty quickly
It won't take 2 years, but it will take all of next year. That said the ethics of it change a bit if someone just refuses to take a vaccine and gets sick vs doesn't have access to one and gets sick.
It's also unclear how long the immunity from these vaccines lasts, which is another x-factor.
The Pfizer vaccine, if memory serves, was not funded by the US - it was funded by Germany. I wouldn't anticipate the US taking the world's supply first or anything.
Biden or Trump, we're waiting on a free market solution. Biden isn't going to do shit to fix this.
There's plenty Biden can and will do to at least improve it, from mask distribution to real contact tracing (which Trump doesn't even have in his own White House) to expanded testing to rebuilding the CDC and pandemic response team to better data availability. It's ridiculous to say he isn't going to do shit to fix it. Even the so-called "free market solution" of a vaccine is largely government funded and won't be a significant profit driver for any of the companies developing vaccines compared to a typical pharma product.
But the biggest thing that would help is arguably another round of stimulus, which would allow bars, restaurants, and other businesses to shut back down without going under (or their employees going under). That, of course, depends on the outcome of Georgia and more likely, Mitch McConnell, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
Post by piggy pablo on Nov 13, 2020 17:05:16 GMT -5
People who are going to wear masks probably have them by now, everyone owns a bandana or something anyway, and contact tracing on a national scale is basically out the window when this many people have it. There might be some ramp up in testing, but there's still going to be the moral hazard of making people pay for it themselves, for the most part. There's not going to be any more stimulus or stay-at-home, which would be the primary part of actually squashing this, unless they change what they're already signaling. There's no "pandemic response" when millions have it, and more people will have it by January. He's just going to blame Trump for everything for the next four years and let the chips fall where they may.
Sorry. Someone has to counter the shocking optimism that Biden's gonna flip the COVID switch to off in January.
Nobody is saying that is going to happen. But he’ll actually do something. And even though we are doing next to nothing during the second wave, the wave will calm down in a couple months. By then Biden should be instilled and have an opportunity to do *something* which will ease our issues tremendously compared to how this year went.
Sorry. Someone has to counter the shocking optimism that Biden's gonna flip the COVID switch to off in January.
Nobody is saying that is going to happen. But he’ll actually do something. And even though we are doing next to nothing during the second wave, the wave will calm down in a couple months. By then Biden should be instilled and have an opportunity to do *something* which will ease our issues tremendously compared to how this year went.
Something, which is what? The guy has been campaigning for president for six months, and I could not tell you off the top of my head what his COVID plan is. They announced an advisory board just four days ago, when they could have done that when he secured the nomination in May. It's going to be a lot of *listen to science* rhetoric, but they've stated today that it is not their intention to do another lockdown, the number one thing that scientists are recommending, and instead take "a more targeted approach". That doesn't really make sense when the entire country has it. Just seems to me like he's not really up to the task or motivated all that much. His plan is probably going to boil down to a vaccine distribution plan, which means the timeline essentially remains the same.
Biden or Trump, we're waiting on a free market solution. Biden isn't going to do shit to fix this.
You mean wont be allowed to if the Senate stays red. Then theyll just say it was Bidens fault this whole time.
That's certainly part of it, probably the most important, so whether Biden is motivated or not is kind of a moot point, I admit. It's a political paradigm of gridlock and finger-pointing.