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Post by Fozzie Bear on Aug 31, 2020 15:28:06 GMT -5
My picks are for the teams who I think built the most realistic, quality lineup of each matchup.
sang / deto katyperryofficial / slack
This lineup comes pretty close to a Bonnaroo lineup to me. Nice mix of genres from headliners to the bottom lines, quality scheduling, and a legendary performance from Sang's Mom. I think the Other has some unrealistic artists, but overall this wins for me.
gocatsnu / Dan Bobby B King T / JamesTheRam
Another pretty realistic lineup to me. A big focus on the Zoomer crowd, but has just enough oldie acts to nicely round the lineup out. Paul feels a bit "been there, done that," but who better than a Beatle to bring people back together after a global pandemic?
DRAGON ENERGY / whereispassionpit Todd / Jake Jortles
This one was tough. I don't think either quite get it, but the former does a better job booking relevant headliners and top line acts.
Pepe Silvia / Nathan Fielder fearandparanoia / money / problem dog
The Rolling Stones and The Cure pairing may be too old-school for modern Roo, but Cardi B and a lot of the top lines balance it out. I really like the Superjams here.
Chandler Bing / Rummy VieuxCareen / cdevaney
The Radiohead/Bille pairing is a knock-out, and lots of diversity among the lineup from top to bottom. The subs seem pretty realistic to me, and the Other acts are some of the most realistic choices across all lineups.
Theo / Teddy Flair Delicious Meatball Sub / Larry Farnsworth
Iron Maiden is a stretch, but a lot of quality, realistic acts on each day. Even if Roo did book Iron Maiden, Taylor Swift and Phish would help sell this very well. A nice mix of older and newer acts balance realism and overall lineup improvement.
Capn Jim “Mad Dog” Mattis / Cap’n Mac Silver Surfer / truevine
I don't think either of these are realistic across the board, but the latter lineup ticks off a lot of boxes: classic headliner who hasn't played before, a returning act who could justify the repeat spot, a newer, slightly questionable headliner who could pull off the upgrade, a mix of quality and cheesy EDM, and nice scheduling. I'm also a bit biased because the goddamn Muppets are on this lineup.
Monie / Fozzie Bear Jaz / Fred
Going to pick our own lineup here, but I also really like the lineup Jaz and Fred created. Their lineup is one of the most realistic without completely appealing to the Zoomer crowd. Nice job.
outside of the two tipper sets and madeon it feels like a lot of stuff the other wouldnt typically book. Maybe I am wrong and I just dont know the earlier acts as well
IMO Ekali, Clams Casino, EPROM, Boys Noize, Brodinski, Cirez D are all also pretty typical Other stage acts. We added some rappers which could be argued don't fit there, but within the rules it states that The Other is for rap as well which is what we abided by. To make those rap sets fit better we mostly targeted rappers with a distinct electronic element like Rico Nasty, Kenny Beats, Tommy Cash, Yung Lean etc. Some cheap outsider house DJs to open the other like Galcher, Mall Grab, Chaos In The CBD is I guess the biggest stretch, but in my opinion that's the next logical step for Bonnaroo to make in terms of EDM bookings (ie: a few years after fests like Coachella start doing that). Not trying to get you to give us more points necessarily but using this as a reasoning to defend our Other in general since it was called a Primavera lineup the other day/
Acts like Yung Lean, Cirez D, Thaiboy Digital, ecco2k, Tommy Cash, DJ Boring, Special Request, Clams Casino etc. would never get booked by Bonnaroo. Not only because they don't even fit the target audience but they barely and/or don't tour in the US at all. Your Other line-up is the biggest thing I've deducted points from your score cause other than that, it's pretty good line-up. And it's not like 4 or 5 acts but a dozen. You could try and grasp yourself onto the handful of acts (like Madeon, Rico Nasty, Tipper.. which I think are fine a fitting acts) that do speak to your target audience but most of your line up is way to niche, even for a Yuma/Sahara-line up.
IMO Ekali, Clams Casino, EPROM, Boys Noize, Brodinski, Cirez D are all also pretty typical Other stage acts. We added some rappers which could be argued don't fit there, but within the rules it states that The Other is for rap as well which is what we abided by. To make those rap sets fit better we mostly targeted rappers with a distinct electronic element like Rico Nasty, Kenny Beats, Tommy Cash, Yung Lean etc. Some cheap outsider house DJs to open the other like Galcher, Mall Grab, Chaos In The CBD is I guess the biggest stretch, but in my opinion that's the next logical step for Bonnaroo to make in terms of EDM bookings (ie: a few years after fests like Coachella start doing that). Not trying to get you to give us more points necessarily but using this as a reasoning to defend our Other in general since it was called a Primavera lineup the other day/
Acts like Yung Lean, Cirez D, Thaiboy Digital, ecco2k, Tommy Cash, DJ Boring, Special Request, Clams Casino etc. would never get booked by Bonnaroo. Not only because they don't even fit the target audience but they barely and/or don't tour in the US at all. Your Other line-up is the biggest thing I've deducted points from your score cause other than that, it's pretty good line-up. And it's not like 4 or 5 acts but a dozen. You could try and grasp yourself onto the handful of acts (like Madeon, Rico Nasty, Tipper.. which I think are fine a fitting acts) that do speak to your target audience but most of your line up is way to niche, even for a Yuma/Sahara-line up.
they were all scheduled to tour the USA this year pre covid happening besides probably special request. Yung Lean isn't even niche at all, he's huge. Clams Casino is so niche he only produced for niche acts like ASAP Rocky, Mac Miller, Vince Staples, Joji, Lil B etc. People at Coachella were worried Cirez D was too big to even fit in the Yuma. Most of these are Thursday acts also which i think gives the most leeway in terms of booking. Ecco2k was opening for Yves Tumor this year which makes him a pretty sensible booking. Tommy Cash is PC adjacent which makes sense for bonnaroo and for our bonnaroo with other PC adjacent acts.
IMO Ekali, Clams Casino, EPROM, Boys Noize, Brodinski, Cirez D are all also pretty typical Other stage acts. We added some rappers which could be argued don't fit there, but within the rules it states that The Other is for rap as well which is what we abided by. To make those rap sets fit better we mostly targeted rappers with a distinct electronic element like Rico Nasty, Kenny Beats, Tommy Cash, Yung Lean etc. Some cheap outsider house DJs to open the other like Galcher, Mall Grab, Chaos In The CBD is I guess the biggest stretch, but in my opinion that's the next logical step for Bonnaroo to make in terms of EDM bookings (ie: a few years after fests like Coachella start doing that). Not trying to get you to give us more points necessarily but using this as a reasoning to defend our Other in general since it was called a Primavera lineup the other day/
Acts like Yung Lean, Cirez D, Thaiboy Digital, ecco2k, Tommy Cash, DJ Boring, Special Request, Clams Casino etc. would never get booked by Bonnaroo. Not only because they don't even fit the target audience but they barely and/or don't tour in the US at all. Your Other line-up is the biggest thing I've deducted points from your score cause other than that, it's pretty good line-up. And it's not like 4 or 5 acts but a dozen. You could try and grasp yourself onto the handful of acts (like Madeon, Rico Nasty, Tipper.. which I think are fine a fitting acts) that do speak to your target audience but most of your line up is way to niche, even for a Yuma/Sahara-line up.
I think having more than just a few of those acts is actually a plus for our lineup. The fact that Charli XCX/Caroline Polachek/Yung Lean/Clams Casino/Thaiboy/Ecco2k/Tommy Trash are all on the same lineup would make it a must for fans of that "genre" of PC electronic/rap/pop which is having a moment right now. We honestly would have grabbed a couple more but KPO/Slack went hard on those.
Besides, none of them are billed/scheduled particularly high nor would they be that expensive.
Acts like Yung Lean, Cirez D, Thaiboy Digital, ecco2k, Tommy Cash, DJ Boring, Special Request, Clams Casino etc. would never get booked by Bonnaroo. Not only because they don't even fit the target audience but they barely and/or don't tour in the US at all. Your Other line-up is the biggest thing I've deducted points from your score cause other than that, it's pretty good line-up. And it's not like 4 or 5 acts but a dozen. You could try and grasp yourself onto the handful of acts (like Madeon, Rico Nasty, Tipper.. which I think are fine a fitting acts) that do speak to your target audience but most of your line up is way to niche, even for a Yuma/Sahara-line up.
I think having more than just a few of those acts is actually a plus for our lineup. The fact that Charli XCX/Caroline Polachek/Yung Lean/Clams Casino/Thaiboy/Ecco2k/Tommy Trash are all on the same lineup would make it a must for fans of that "genre" of PC electronic/rap/pop which is having a moment right now. We honestly would have grabbed a couple more but KPO/Slack went hard on those.
Besides, none of them are billed/scheduled particularly high nor would they be that expensive.
I mean for yours it might but I've yet to see a major US festival pulls up with like twenty acts like that on their line up. I do think it matters when a lot of your undercard acts are very niche that it changes the way your line up might sell and be perceived. Bonnaroo is not a niche electronic nor pop festival. Sure, it can have some edges on there but to have a bunch of those on your line up, doesn't bode your line up well imo. And I do think it matters even if those acts aren't billed that high, cause it all adds up in the end anyways.
Sales/Success: I would guess this lineup would sell okay (big headliners) but would not sell out. There is very little that appeals to the 18-25 crowd that just wants to party (majority of the fest). I wouldn’t buy a ticket (assuming I can see RATM elsewhere)
Thursday: o Thought Sister Sparrow was Grandma Sparrow at first lol
o Nick Hakim at dusk is perfect!
o No rappers?
o Kudos for doing the whole Opry lineup
o Half the acts on this day are not new or rising (Algiers at night is perfect though)
Friday: o Nilufer Yanya is too big to open a tent
o Sylvan Esso coming back without new music and getting upgraded to the Which stage doesn’t make sense
o Odesza playing the same spot back-to-back years without new music doesn’t make sense.
o SBTRKT doesn’t appear to be active
o Jungle coming back without new music doesn’t make sense.
o Questlove/Claypool superjam feels pretty been there done that
o Honestly this day has so little that would really excite me aside from RATM.
Saturday: o Glassjaw opening a tent?
o Protomartyr -> Yellow Days would be dope.
o Khruangbin is a perfect pick for this draft, and I actually think they work really well where you scheduled them (late afternoon What). Conflict with Yellow Days is unnecessary.
o On the scale of Unrealistic vs Good I think Bjork is a solid net positive for your lineup. I would have definitely switched her and Weezer on the schedule though, her crowd would be MUCH smaller.
o Thee Oh Sees at Bonnaroo would be amazing (should be late night)
o I honestly don’t understand That Tent on this day? An entire stage of boom-bap rappers in 2021 makes no sense, and would honestly be pretty boring. And I like some of those acts. You would have to hope that some of the people that got tickets mainly for RATM/RTJ would be into it I guess?
o Not into Porter Robinson but that is a great pick for this draft, great scheduling for him too.
o Chromatics 2:30am would be so good.
Sunday: o Love Toots opening the What.
o Jill Scott billed so low and playing the Which at 4pm sticks out, but works for my personal schedule I guess.
o Would have been cool to have a run of Kelly Lee Owens -> Yaeji
o No rap again
o Metallica as the Sunday closer, on a lineup with RATM?. No precedent of a heavy band closing the fest, and it’s not an improvement in my mind because I think the tradition of a more chill Sunday is good. And the only precedent for two heavy headliners is 2008 (Metallica/Pearl Jam) which didn't sell well.
Thursday: o Some of these acts seem almost too small to play based on spotify listens
o The Hotelier and Ladies of LCD don’t seem like Thursday acts
o Don’t know much this day but seems like it could be fun from quick listens
Friday: o Alex Lahey playing the exact spot she played in 2018
o Feels like too many PC Music type acts in one day
o I think the Rex OC -> Janet -> LCD main stage run is actually pretty cool
o Daphni LN Which doesn’t make sense.
o I hated that Dead Petz album lol
o Gecs x 100
Saturday: o So many bad pop rock acts this day
o Dababy main stage would be a blast
o Kanye is the worst headliner pick of the draft
o Dan Deacon -> Peggy Gou would be a really fun LN but should be in a tent or The Other Sunday: o Best day for me personally. Could have a nice run of Angelo DeAugustine -> Rolling Blackouts (didn’t they just play?) -> Benjamin Clementine -> Amine -> Bill Callahan -> Neon Indian
o No reason for Elton John and Billy Idol to play this fest again.
I guess I played it way too conservative. I was extremely sensitive to the fact that artists are always billed higher than we would normally place them and I expect that to even happen next year without much of any touring this year.
Probably could have gone a little bigger but I stand by my methodology.
I guess I played it way too conservative. I was extremely sensitive to the fact that artists are always billed higher than we would normally place them and I expect that to even happen next year without much of any touring this year.
Probably could have gone a little bigger but I stand by my methodology.
I mean I get that this is supposed to be realistic but you really didn’t have to draft magic! or Smallpools. Those are free agent acts
I guess I played it way too conservative. I was extremely sensitive to the fact that artists are always billed higher than we would normally place them and I expect that to even happen next year without much of any touring this year.
Probably could have gone a little bigger but I stand by my methodology.
I mean I get that this is supposed to be realistic but you really didn’t have to draft magic! or Smallpools. Those are free agent acts
Headliner: KPO / Slack (LCD Soundsystem) vs. Sang/Bandeto (Rage Against The Machine) Undercard: Sang / Bandeto
Saturday Robert Glasper > Khruangbin > Bjork > Thee Oh Sees > DJ Seinfeld > Chromatics
Washed Out > Terrace Martin > The Flaming Lips > Kanye West > Dan Deacon > Peggy Gou
Headliner: KPO / Slack (Kanye West) vs. Sang / Bandeto (Lizzo) Undercard: Sang / Bandeto
Sunday DJ Tennis > Kelly Lee Owens > Little Dragon > Yaeji > Metallica
Neon Indian > Billy Idol > Elton John
Headliner: Sang / Bandeto (Metallica) vs. KPO / Slack (Elton John) Undercard: Sang / Bandeto
Other:
Realism: KPO / Slack
Although Sang / Bandeto have one of my personal favorite lineups, there is a lot that I find unrealistic for Bonnaroo, specifically the electronic music (DJ Tennis, Kelly Lee Owens, Fatima Yamaha, Mama Snake). I also have a problem with Bjork as a Bonnaroo 2021 booking. She is very expensive and does not draw the Bonnaroo crowd enough to justify the booking fee. She is more of a Primavera, FYF, III Points booking in my opinion.
Scheduling: Sang / Bandeto KPO / Slack have serious scheduling issues. Peggy Gou and Daphni on The Which?
Headliner: King T / JTR (Ariana Grande) vs. Gocatsnu / Dan Bob (Madonna) Undercard: King T / JTR
Saturday Porches > Little Simz > Phoenix > UMO > Grimes > Prince Superjam
U.S. Girls > King Krule > Ariel Pink > Fatboy Slim > Robyn > Animal Collective
Headliner: King T / JTR (Travis Scott) vs. Gocatsnu / Dan Bob (The Weeknd) Undercard: King T / JTR
Sunday Lauren Daigle > Passion Pit > Courtney Barnett > David Byrne > David Gilmour
Hayley Williams > New Order > Paul McCartney
Headliner: King T / JTR (Paul McCartney) vs Gocatsnu / Dan Bob (David Gilmour) Undercard: Gocatsnu / Dan Bob
Other
Realism: Tie
Scheduling: King T / JTR Both lineups have good scheduling but I’ll give it to King T / JTR for the late night options. Also not a fan of two EDM closers on Which.
I guess I played it way too conservative. I was extremely sensitive to the fact that artists are always billed higher than we would normally place them and I expect that to even happen next year without much of any touring this year.
Probably could have gone a little bigger but I stand by my methodology.
I mean I get that this is supposed to be realistic but you really didn’t have to draft magic! or Smallpools. Those are free agent acts
Post by problem dog on Aug 31, 2020 18:13:39 GMT -5
KPO/Slack Quality and realism are pretty inextricable here. I don't think they bring back an expensive legacy act like Elton, and also I hate him. Kanye is a huge risk, and also I have zero confidence he puts on a good show. Worst 2 headliners in the game imo, unopposed sets really hurts. I love LCD and acknowledge they aren't a headliner anymore, but until they show up somewhere else as a sub, I'm assuming James' ego keeps him playing smaller fests where they headline.
Sangdeto Quality is a hit for me, a lot of my favorites are in the undercard and I have good runs each day. RATM is the best overall headliner in the game for combined realism/quality. I'll have more in later rounds, but this matchup is pretty straightforward.
CatBob Strong claim to most realistic lineup. Gilmour is probably tough to book here, but if you throw out acts like him, what's the point of the game? Nothing else I'd call a stretch, and I think it's crazy Madonna hasn't headlined one of the majors yet. Not sure I'd buy a ticket myself, but I think it would sell really well.
King James I've got you ranked ahead of CatBob on quality, but the realism gap is too much to overcome. Deftones 9th on their day, Loretta Lynn pulling double duty when she barely even sang at her last public appearance, and the Parcels jam seems a little random. Also think Macca falls into the same category as Elton, not sure they'd drop the cash to bring him back for the exact same show. One of my favorite Thursdays, though, and I love New Order closing Which on Sunday. Whereispassionpit/Dragon Energy The Other acts don't bother me that much. As you've pointed out, your weirdest stuff isn't booked very highly and probably wouldn't cost much at all. You've got a lot of very current acts, feels more of the moment than anything else in the game. I don't personally fuck with the PC stuff, maybe an issue later, but your realism/quality balance wins here.
Todd/Jortles I've got you top 6 on quality, but near the bottom on realism. A couple of niche acts is fine, but I can't imagine a Bonnaroo with System of a Down, Aphex, Electric Wizard, Lingua Ignota, Liturgy, Joanna Newsom, etc. all on the same poster. And about half of those acts are scheduled in places where they won't draw at all.
Fear/Dog/Emo This lineup owns.
Nathan/Pepe Surprised about this seeding. I think you did a good job improving the Other, but Hopkins is a stretch. Very strong late nights, too. Weakest part of the lineup for me is that Steely Dan>Grace Jones>Bruce run. Bruce is the last high profile member of the returning legacy act club, just don't see it happening again. Grace Jones would never play Bonnaroo. And I really, really hate Steely Dan. But they're plausible.
Scheduling: King T / JTR Both lineups have good scheduling but I’ll give it to King T / JTR for the late night options. Also not a fan of two EDM closers on Which.
so I’m curious about this since you are the one with the best gauge on cost of acts. Is King T/JTR ‘s lineup not incredibly over budget? I’m trying to get a feel for the future why our lineup is equally realistic to theirs, because clearly my prior assumptions on realism are way off
KPO/Slack Quality and realism are pretty inextricable here. I don't think they bring back an expensive legacy act like Elton, and also I hate him. Kanye is a huge risk, and also I have zero confidence he puts on a good show. Worst 2 headliners in the game imo, unopposed sets really hurts. I love LCD and acknowledge they aren't a headliner anymore, but until they show up somewhere else as a sub, I'm assuming James' ego keeps him playing smaller fests where they headline.
Sangdeto Quality is a hit for me, a lot of my favorites are in the undercard and I have good runs each day. RATM is the best overall headliner in the game for combined realism/quality. I'll have more in later rounds, but this matchup is pretty straightforward.
CatBob Strong claim to most realistic lineup. Gilmour is probably tough to book here, but if you throw out acts like him, what's the point of the game? Nothing else I'd call a stretch, and I think it's crazy Madonna hasn't headlined one of the majors yet. Not sure I'd buy a ticket myself, but I think it would sell really well.
King James I've got you ranked ahead of CatBob on quality, but the realism gap is too much to overcome. Deftones 9th on their day, Loretta Lynn pulling double duty when she barely even sang at her last public appearance, and the Parcels jam seems a little random. Also think Macca falls into the same category as Elton, not sure they'd drop the cash to bring him back for the exact same show. One of my favorite Thursdays, though, and I love New Order closing Which on Sunday. Whereispassionpit/Dragon Energy The Other acts don't bother me that much. As you've pointed out, your weirdest stuff isn't booked very highly and probably wouldn't cost much at all. You've got a lot of very current acts, feels more of the moment than anything else in the game. I don't personally fuck with the PC stuff, maybe an issue later, but your realism/quality balance wins here.
Todd/Jortles I've got you top 6 on quality, but near the bottom on realism. A couple of niche acts is fine, but I can't imagine a Bonnaroo with System of a Down, Aphex, Electric Wizard, Lingua Ignota, Liturgy, Joanna Newsom, etc. all on the same poster. And about half of those acts are scheduled in places where they won't draw at all.
Fear/Dog/Emo This lineup owns.
Nathan/Pepe Surprised about this seeding. I think you did a good job improving the Other, but Hopkins is a stretch. Very strong late nights, too. Weakest part of the lineup for me is that Steely Dan>Grace Jones>Bruce run. Bruce is the last high profile member of the returning legacy act club, just don't see it happening again. Grace Jones would never play Bonnaroo. And I really, really hate Steely Dan. But they're plausible.
deftones are a bit low but Loretta is just kind of hanging out for the Opry. Hosting the Opry isn’t the same as hosting a SJ. She’s doing a couple songs but mostly introducing people. Not sure what you have against the Parcels jam but are those your main points about realism?
Scheduling: King T / JTR Both lineups have good scheduling but I’ll give it to King T / JTR for the late night options. Also not a fan of two EDM closers on Which.
so I’m curious about this since you are the one with the best gauge on cost of acts. Is King T/JTR ‘s lineup not incredibly over budget? I’m trying to get a feel for the future why our lineup is equally realistic to theirs, because clearly my prior assumptions on realism are way off
I think their headliners are definitely over budget for recent Bonnaroos.
so I’m curious about this since you are the one with the best gauge on cost of acts. Is King T/JTR ‘s lineup not incredibly over budget? I’m trying to get a feel for the future why our lineup is equally realistic to theirs, because clearly my prior assumptions on realism are way off
I think their headliners are definitely over budget for recent Bonnaroos.
Didn’t you say Kendrick and Ariana were about the same? Gotta think Waters is Macca level since he doesn’t really do festivals and hates outdoor shows. The only difference is Travis and Kacey which is about a 500k difference? You’re not far behind.
so I’m curious about this since you are the one with the best gauge on cost of acts. Is King T/JTR ‘s lineup not incredibly over budget? I’m trying to get a feel for the future why our lineup is equally realistic to theirs, because clearly my prior assumptions on realism are way off
I think their headliners are definitely over budget for recent Bonnaroos.
im not even talking just about the headliners. Your team seemed to be very conscious about the second and third line to not take big acts and to take stuff that makes financial sense, and we did mostly as well except for Garrix and Harris. But the King T JTR poster is rolling 9 deep into some days into acts that would be like 4 at Riot Fest or another secondary fest.
I mean Robyn is what the 9th most expensive act on their lineup? It’s more expensive than an ACL lineup
I think their headliners are definitely over budget for recent Bonnaroos.
im not even talking just about the headliners. Your team seemed to be very conscious about the second and third line to not take big acts and to take stuff that makes financial sense, and we did mostly as well except for Garrix and Harris. But the King T JTR poster is rolling 9 deep into some days into acts that would be like 4 at Riot Fest or another secondary fest.
I mean Robyn is what the 9th most expensive act on their lineup? It’s more expensive than an ACL lineup
im not even talking just about the headliners. Your team seemed to be very conscious about the second and third line to not take big acts and to take stuff that makes financial sense, and we did mostly as well except for Garrix and Harris. But the King T JTR poster is rolling 9 deep into some days into acts that would be like 4 at Riot Fest or another secondary fest.
I mean Robyn is what the 9th most expensive act on their lineup? It’s more expensive than an ACL lineup
give it a break buddy
you’re gonna win so it is what it is but it is pretty lame that this is the realism draft and the team that spends the most of any team by far is getting positive realism points. I think that $ really mattered here and we specifically picked based on $
im not even talking just about the headliners. Your team seemed to be very conscious about the second and third line to not take big acts and to take stuff that makes financial sense, and we did mostly as well except for Garrix and Harris. But the King T JTR poster is rolling 9 deep into some days into acts that would be like 4 at Riot Fest or another secondary fest.
I mean Robyn is what the 9th most expensive act on their lineup? It’s more expensive than an ACL lineup
