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And Lollapalooza. And technically Glastonbury because Foo Fighters dropped
i think phoenix is a prime example of where my heads at. coachella 2010 > 2013 they went from 4th on day to HL. acl 2009 > 13 > 18 they go lower lines > 7th overall > 4th on their day (which is probably where theyd be if they had played coachella in the last couple of years)
from 13 > 18 they went from headlining coachella to being 3rd-4th on their day. 5 years.
since florence sub'd/headlined all those things in 2015, she hasnt gotten anymore popular, she released music that was not as well received, and headlined festivals that did poorly.
she's great, and those songs i like are great, and id love to see them. but i don't see whats so unrealistic. or at least where this defined line between her being 5th overall, on the 2nd line, 2nd on her day, subbing for the headliner, is so much more unrealistic than her being 4th overall, on the 2nd line, subbing for the headliner.
*especially when we don't have a super expensive top line
Yeah I think she would be a big sub but not out of the question.
You consider our lineup to be the least realistic of all of these? Jfc.
My man gave the Bonnaroo lineup with Aphex Twin and Joanna Newsom a 9/10 for realism.
lmao
This is what happens when you tell people to improve bonnaroo and then provide a nebulous "realism" category with guidelines that everyone is free to ignore as is convenient
Realism 1/10: This just isn't a bonnaroo lineup lol. 2manydjs wouldn't play, Hot chip is massively underbilled, the edm is too good, Taylor Swift isn't playing, and Arctic monkeys are a headliner imo.
Quality 6/10: Outside of t swift, I would enjoy this lineup hella. You probably wouldn't even need drugs, just sneak a couple cases of natty into centeroo (I know a guy), and go ham.
Score: 3.5
The only thing I want to address here is the Hot Chip thing. I think they're one of those acts that Inforoo maybe thinks is more popular than they actually are? They were billed 22nd on their day at Coachella this year. I worried that we had them too high, if anything.
I don't get the realism knock but it is what it is.
Sales/Success: I think this would sell okay, but not a sellout. I don’t think this headliner trio appeals to the current Bonnaroo audience. I don’t think I would attend.
Thursday: • This day is wayyy too big for a Thursday. Faye Webster already played last year (not on Thursday). Tank and The Bangas already played in 2017. Caamp and Wallows were on this years lineup billed pretty high (not on Thursday). Twiddle have played a couple of times before. You have Olivia O’Brian on the Who stage and she has 8.6 million monthly Spotify listeners. • Grand Ole Opry with no guests listed or anything adds nothing. • L’Imperatrice doesn’t fit at The Other • Some good acts
Friday • CHIC, Bon Iver, and T-Pain would be unnecessary/unrealistic repeats •Three 6 Mafia feels too early at 5:15 and Tyga sucks too much to be given a prime nighttime tent, I would have switched these two. • LOVE the St Vincent pre-headliner pick, and makes sense before Madonna. I wanted St Vincent before MCR on our lineup. • On the scale of realism vs quality I think Madonna is a net negative. I don’t think she fits Bonnaroo at all especially for what she would cost. • Kaytranada is one of the best picks of the draft, having never played Bonnaroo before yet being a perfect fit. • This comment will go for the whole lineup, I don’t like that you cut down your Late Nights to fit a Who lineup in there.
Saturday • Feels too soon for a repeat for Unknown Mortal Orchestra, Gucci Mane, Anderson Paak, and The Weeknd. • Grimes is a great pick, and scheduled great • One of my favorite run of acts in UMO -> Paak -> Grimes -> Prince Superjam (you should have the SJ details in the OP) • This day feels kinda dated, like it could have been a good day at Bonnaroo 2017
Sunday • Courtney Barnett playing the same spot she did last year doesn’t make sense. • Too soon for a return for Sheryl Crow, and probably Lauryn Hill • A lot of indie that peaked years ago • Love the Lil Baby pick • Epic close with David Byrne and David Gilmour. I think David Gilmour is a net positive on your lineup even if a bit unrealistic because it fits Bonnaroo and would be very cool for them to be the first festival he plays
Sales/Success: I think this would sell out eventually. Massive headliners and an undercard that hits all the sweet spots for the Bonnaroo audience. I don’t think this lineup would get me back to Bonnaroo but it achieves the purpose of the game, an improvement that maintains the spirit of the festival.
Thursday • I really like this day. Feels like an improvement over the last few years, and the acts are sized appropriately. I don’t know anything about Rocky Horror but I think anything out of the box like that would work at Bonnaroo. • Good genre diversity • Viagra Boys should be later, great pick.
Friday • I get adding some filler, but this day has a few acts that are straight up bad and/or dated. Matt and Kim may be the worst pick of the draft lol • Serpentwithfeet into Mount Kimbie is perfect • Ariana Grande I think would be possible, but I don’t think fits Bonnaroo that well and would be very expensive. • That late night doesn’t do much for me but feels realistic. • I think this day is missing a big rap act. Big Boi/ASAP Ferg is pretty meh
Saturday • Fratellis would be a really fun What opener • This Tent is just soooo good on this day. I honestly think I would stay there all day (I’d probably go to Robyn) • Robyn LN Which would be so fun • Feels too soon for a Death Cab and Virtual Self return. • The Internet seem overbilled and too small for night time Which. • The superjam feels realistic. • Animal Collective super late sounds great.
Sunday • The entire What Stage lineup is extremely Bonnaroo this day, just feels right even if I’m not into those acts • Grouplove and Wiz Khalifa is offensive filler, unnecessary • Paul McCartney is a net neutral for me in this draft. Really don’t see why a festival would book him to do the exact same show again. I’d still enjoy it but feels lazy.
My man gave the Bonnaroo lineup with Aphex Twin and Joanna Newsom a 9/10 for realism.
lmao
This is what happens when you tell people to improve bonnaroo and then provide a nebulous "realism" category with guidelines that everyone is free to ignore as is convenient
Everyone talks a big game about “realism” now but then just votes for whatever poster has more bands they like/want to signal they like. Let’s just not waste more time debating this, ya?
Although Sang / Bandeto have one of my personal favorite lineups, there is a lot that I find unrealistic for Bonnaroo, specifically the electronic music (DJ Tennis, Kelly Lee Owens, Fatima Yamaha, Mama Snake). I also have a problem with Bjork as a Bonnaroo 2021 booking. She is very expensive and does not draw the Bonnaroo crowd enough to justify the booking fee. She is more of a Primavera, FYF, III Points booking in my opinion.
Post by problem dog on Aug 31, 2020 20:40:25 GMT -5
"Not enough garbage" is kind of nebulous. We booked a top 6 that appeals to multiple demos, current hip hop, jam, country, indie rock, classic rock, and we didn't take any chances on risky Other acts. I understand that Bonnaroo books a lot of shit nobody on the board really likes, but we didn't really stretch the limits of plausibility to get where we're at. We couldn't book Halsey twice.
I'm not judging realism for teams based on whether the lineup looks like it could be the actual Bonnaroo 2021 lineup. In my opinion that would be directly in contrast with the other half of the scoring (improving Bonnaroo). To me it makes more sense to judge realism based on:
1) whether acts are actually accessible by Bonnaroo: someone who's only played a could US shows in the last decade would score low here. An act that might not fit the exact typical bonnaroo mold, but still tours America (and not only LA and NYC) can still be realistic for me here. and 2) Price of the act versus draw of the act. If you have to spend a ton of money on one act vs very little on an act that are all equally rare, the one that you must spend a ton of money on is going to be much more unrealistic in my opinion. I'll use Todd/Jortles team as an example here since they're my first round matchup, Aphex Twin costs around a million dollars (headliner money) without having close to the draw to make that booking a sensible one for Bonnaroo. a lot of people have criticized the realism of some of the DJs we have early on the Other, but to me there's an insanely big difference between throwing a DJ a couple grand to open a stage and maybe entertain a few people vs giving an act like AT headliner money to entertain a few people. That's obviously an example using extremes but I kinda view it as a Price/Draw scale.
Realism 3.1/10: This lineup is very inforoo, but not very bonnaroo. Outside of the headliners I don't think I would guess it was a bonnaroo lineup outside of the poster. Because I don't want to rewrite the previous sentance, I'll say the edm is realistic.
Quality 7.4/10: Yeah I'd go to this festival quicker than you can say blueberry pie. There's just too much to like, Charli, ELO, Soulwax, etc are all fantastic acts that are still on my bucketlist. Hell I'd even enjoy the MCR throwback.
Score: 5.25
Hard disagree with the bolded portion, our undercard in unmistakably Bonnaroo. What other festival in the world would book any combination of Oteil Burbridge/Anthrax/Flight of the Conchords/Boys Noize/Ashanti & Ja Rule/Tanya Tucker, etc etc etc etc?
My man gave the Bonnaroo lineup with Aphex Twin and Joanna Newsom a 9/10 for realism.
lmao
This is what happens when you tell people to improve bonnaroo and then provide a nebulous "realism" category with guidelines that everyone is free to ignore as is convenient
Who could have possibly seen this coming
ah shit one guy voted in a way you didn’t like.
Pack it up everyone, we’re done here. I’ll make some new rules and we’ll start from the top
Realism 3.1/10: This lineup is very inforoo, but not very bonnaroo. Outside of the headliners I don't think I would guess it was a bonnaroo lineup outside of the poster. Because I don't want to rewrite the previous sentance, I'll say the edm is realistic.
Quality 7.4/10: Yeah I'd go to this festival quicker than you can say blueberry pie. There's just too much to like, Charli, ELO, Soulwax, etc are all fantastic acts that are still on my bucketlist. Hell I'd even enjoy the MCR throwback.
Score: 5.25
Hard disagree with the bolded portion, our undercard in unmistakably Bonnaroo. What other festival in the world would book any combination of Oteil Burbridge/Anthrax/Flight of the Conchords/Boys Noize/Ashanti & Ja Rule/Tanya Tucker, etc etc etc etc?
Special Request, Palms Trax, Soulwax, Floating Points, Amelie Lens is not Bonnaroo at all.
Realism 3.1/10: This lineup is very inforoo, but not very bonnaroo. Outside of the headliners I don't think I would guess it was a bonnaroo lineup outside of the poster. Because I don't want to rewrite the previous sentance, I'll say the edm is realistic.
Quality 7.4/10: Yeah I'd go to this festival quicker than you can say blueberry pie. There's just too much to like, Charli, ELO, Soulwax, etc are all fantastic acts that are still on my bucketlist. Hell I'd even enjoy the MCR throwback.
Score: 5.25
Hard disagree with the bolded portion, our undercard in unmistakably Bonnaroo. What other festival in the world would book any combination of Oteil Burbridge/Anthrax/Flight of the Conchords/Boys Noize/Ashanti & Ja Rule/Tanya Tucker, etc etc etc etc?
I’ll back this up too Rihanna, Megan, Dead, MCR, Flume, Fleet Foxes, ELO, Bonnaroo is probably the only fest that all these could play the same year on.
This is what happens when you tell people to improve bonnaroo and then provide a nebulous "realism" category with guidelines that everyone is free to ignore as is convenient
Who could have possibly seen this coming
ah shit one guy voted in a way you didn’t like.
Pack it up everyone, we’re done here. I’ll make some new rules and we’ll start from the top
Take your blood pressure meds mate, what has occurred is objectively funny as hell
Hard disagree with the bolded portion, our undercard in unmistakably Bonnaroo. What other festival in the world would book any combination of Oteil Burbridge/Anthrax/Flight of the Conchords/Boys Noize/Ashanti & Ja Rule/Tanya Tucker, etc etc etc etc?
Special Request, Palms Trax, Soulwax, Floating Points, Amelie Lens is not Bonnaroo at all.
Soulwax and Floating Points aren't weird at all for Bonnaroo. I'd put them right there with Bonnaroo alums like Four Tet and Caribou, you'd be happily surprised to see them on the lineup but it wouldn't be that crazy. Floating Points was booked for Meow Wolf's festival #4 after Space Jesus, G Jones and Malaa, to say he's unrealistic for a wook music festival is sooooo wrong. Soulwax had plans to pretty extensively tour the US in 2020 as well so theyre also a sensible 2021 booking. Amelie Lens is breaking through in a huge way, and has done well to crossover to the Ultra/EDM crowd. Palms Trax is cheap af and again similar to the likes of Daphni, Four Tet, etc. Special Request is really the only on of those that seems like a stretch to me, and he's not getting paid enough to really matter in my opinion.
Special Request, Palms Trax, Soulwax, Floating Points, Amelie Lens is not Bonnaroo at all.
Soulwax and Floating Points aren't weird at all for Bonnaroo. I'd put them right there with Bonnaroo alums like Four Tet and Caribou, you'd be happily surprised to see them on the lineup but it wouldn't be that crazy. Floating Points was booked for Meow Wolf's festival #4 after Space Jesus, G Jones and Malaa, to say he's unrealistic for a wook music festival is sooooo wrong. Soulwax had plans to pretty extensively tour the US in 2020 as well so theyre also a sensible 2021 booking. Amelie Lens is breaking through in a huge way, and has done well to crossover to the Ultra/EDM crowd. Palms Trax is cheap af and again similar to the likes of Daphni, Four Tet, etc. Special Request is really the only on of those that seems like a stretch to me, and he's not getting paid enough to really matter in my opinion.
I think individually, sure, Soulwax and Floating Points would be outliers on a Bonnaroo lineup, but is not as unrealistic as like Arca or OPN. But when they're paired with these smaller undercard acts like Palms Trax and Special Request, it starts looking like a Primavera lineup.
Anything that ever played E Forest is on the table (Octa, FP, Dijon, etc.)
Something like soulwax that's a live band would work very well, and it's not like theyre complete unknowns. There's probably solid correlation between going to Bonnaroo and playing GTA.
Soulwax and Floating Points aren't weird at all for Bonnaroo. I'd put them right there with Bonnaroo alums like Four Tet and Caribou, you'd be happily surprised to see them on the lineup but it wouldn't be that crazy. Floating Points was booked for Meow Wolf's festival #4 after Space Jesus, G Jones and Malaa, to say he's unrealistic for a wook music festival is sooooo wrong. Soulwax had plans to pretty extensively tour the US in 2020 as well so theyre also a sensible 2021 booking. Amelie Lens is breaking through in a huge way, and has done well to crossover to the Ultra/EDM crowd. Palms Trax is cheap af and again similar to the likes of Daphni, Four Tet, etc. Special Request is really the only on of those that seems like a stretch to me, and he's not getting paid enough to really matter in my opinion.
I think individually, sure, Soulwax and Floating Points would be outliers on a Bonnaroo lineup, but is not as unrealistic as like Arca or OPN. But when they're paired with these smaller undercard acts like Palms Trax and Special Request, it starts looking like a Primavera lineup.
This just makes it hard for me to take your argument seriously. No one would look at our full lineup and think it looks like a Primavera lineup at all. If four acts make it Primavera to you I guess I'll have to leave it at that.
Soulwax and Floating Points aren't weird at all for Bonnaroo. I'd put them right there with Bonnaroo alums like Four Tet and Caribou, you'd be happily surprised to see them on the lineup but it wouldn't be that crazy. Floating Points was booked for Meow Wolf's festival #4 after Space Jesus, G Jones and Malaa, to say he's unrealistic for a wook music festival is sooooo wrong. Soulwax had plans to pretty extensively tour the US in 2020 as well so theyre also a sensible 2021 booking. Amelie Lens is breaking through in a huge way, and has done well to crossover to the Ultra/EDM crowd. Palms Trax is cheap af and again similar to the likes of Daphni, Four Tet, etc. Special Request is really the only on of those that seems like a stretch to me, and he's not getting paid enough to really matter in my opinion.
I think individually, sure, Soulwax and Floating Points would be outliers on a Bonnaroo lineup, but is not as unrealistic as like Arca or OPN. But when they're paired with these smaller undercard acts like Palms Trax and Special Request, it starts looking like a Primavera lineup.
I believe you said our lineup was the most unrealistic of the entire draft, surely you have better reasons than "5 of your electronic undercard make your festival look like a better festival"
I'll admit Soulwax is not super realistic, but they're doing their first proper US tour next year, and they play festivals in Europe often, there's nothing crazy about them making a stop at Bonnaroo. The others should be a non-issue, they're lower undercard acts that would play anywhere that pays them. And if the issue is "they wouldn't sell enough tickets for the cost" I laugh in Rihanna/MCR/Dead, our lineup would sell out easily.
Post by Whereispassionpit on Aug 31, 2020 21:47:08 GMT -5
When I went to Bonnaroo, the Kalliope stage would be packed all day and they wouldn't even announce who was DJ'ing. People there just want lasers and beats while they do drugs, improving the smaller acts that play The Other is a no-brainer and a half.
When I went to Bonnaroo, the Kalliope stage would be packed all day and they wouldn't even announce who was DJ'ing. People there just want lasers and beats while they do drugs, improving the smaller acts that play The Other is a no-brainer and a half.
I think individually, sure, Soulwax and Floating Points would be outliers on a Bonnaroo lineup, but is not as unrealistic as like Arca or OPN. But when they're paired with these smaller undercard acts like Palms Trax and Special Request, it starts looking like a Primavera lineup.
I believe you said our lineup was the most unrealistic of the entire draft, surely you have better reasons than "5 of your electronic undercard make your festival look like a better festival"
I'll admit Soulwax is not super realistic, but they're doing their first proper US tour next year, and they play festivals in Europe often, there's nothing crazy about them making a stop at Bonnaroo. The others should be a non-issue, they're lower undercard acts that would play anywhere that pays them. And if the issue is "they wouldn't sell enough tickets for the cost" I laugh in Rihanna/MCR/Dead, our lineup would sell out easily.
I don't disagree with the rest of your points, but the Dead headlined the worst selling Bonnaroo of all time
Quick q, what made Nick Cave so unrealistic? He played in 2015. Is it bc that set wasn’t attended well? Could they not get him?
I don’t think it would have been that insane Compared to some other stuff but it was kinda like the Nicolas Jaar thing. Once truevine said they were unrealistic that’s just the way general sentiment went and no one wanted to pick them. Like there’s really not much reason to think Jaar is unrealistic at all other than Truevine’s opinion.
Post by Nathan Fieldcяab on Aug 31, 2020 21:54:54 GMT -5
sang / deto: 0.625 realism points + 2.5 preference points = 1.5625 average katyperryofficial / slack: 1.25 realism points + 0.625 preference points = 0.9375 average
gocatsnu / Dan Bobby B: 3.75 realism points + 8.75 preference points = 6.25 average King T / JamesTheRam: 10 realism points + 5 preference points = 7.5 average
DRAGON ENERGY / whereispassionpit: 5.625 realism points + 8.125 preference points = 6.875 average Todd / Jake Jortles: 1.875 realism points + 5.625 preference points = 3.75 average
Quick q, what made Nick Cave so unrealistic? He played in 2015. Is it bc that set wasn’t attended well? Could they not get him?
I don’t think it would have been that insane Compared to some other stuff but it was kinda like the Nicolas Jaar thing. Once truevine said they were unrealistic that’s just the way general sentiment went and no one wanted to pick them. Like there’s really not much reason to think Jaar is unrealistic at all other than Truevine’s opinion.
apparent Jaar said he wouldn’t play the US until Trump was out
I don’t think it would have been that insane Compared to some other stuff but it was kinda like the Nicolas Jaar thing. Once truevine said they were unrealistic that’s just the way general sentiment went and no one wanted to pick them. Like there’s really not much reason to think Jaar is unrealistic at all other than Truevine’s opinion.
apparent Jaar said he wouldn’t play the US until Trump was out
Sure but we only know that because Truevine told us.
I don’t think it would have been that insane Compared to some other stuff but it was kinda like the Nicolas Jaar thing. Once truevine said they were unrealistic that’s just the way general sentiment went and no one wanted to pick them. Like there’s really not much reason to think Jaar is unrealistic at all other than Truevine’s opinion.
apparent Jaar said he wouldn’t play the US until Trump was out
And he doesn't have any representation. He's only doing shows / projects with his personal friends. Zero chance he plays Live Nation presents Bonnaroo.
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