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Reading through these response so far I think I have to boost Monie Bear’s realism rating because we’re getting the same “this person isn’t a headliner” arguments that we get every Bonnaroo
This was everyone’s concern at the start of the draft, where it was like “oh wait we actually have to draft bad lineups?”
Bottom line is that everyone is using a different mechanism for “realism” and that’s a problem in voting. There are also quite a few people who clearly take realism as “Bonnaroo wouldn’t book this because it’s too good” which completely ruins the point of the game imo.
You can book 'acts that are too good to be booked by Bonnaroo', you just have to compremise those acts with other acts in my opinion. Bonnaroo is not III Points or Primavera and when I'm seeing like twenty acts on a certain line-up that are very niche, you can't just justify that with saying "oh, but they don't cost that much so it's fine. We're just making Roo better." You're taking a massive leap and making an enormeous change to what a Bonnaroo looks like to the point of changing most of it's undercard or entire stages and that it's not very recognizable anymore. That's not r e a l i s t i c imo.
I think our lineup looks like the 2010-2015 era, only with gender parity. It looks nothing like III Points, and the parity is the only similarity to Prima. The fact people just keep trotting our “ItS NoT PRimIvERA” for stuff that looks nothing like that fest just exposes how lazy this argument is.
sang / deto: 0.625 realism points + 2.5 preference points = 1.5625 average katyperryofficial / slack: 1.25 realism points + 0.625 preference points = 0.9375 average
gocatsnu / Dan Bobby B: 3.75 realism points + 8.75 preference points = 6.25 average King T / JamesTheRam: 10 realism points + 5 preference points = 7.5 average
DRAGON ENERGY / whereispassionpit: 5.625 realism points + 8.125 preference points = 6.875 average Todd / Jake Jortles: 1.875 realism points + 5.625 preference points = 3.75 average
You can book 'acts that are too good to be booked by Bonnaroo', you just have to compremise those acts with other acts in my opinion. Bonnaroo is not III Points or Primavera and when I'm seeing like twenty acts on a certain line-up that are very niche, you can't just justify that with saying "oh, but they don't cost that much so it's fine. We're just making Roo better." You're taking a massive leap and making an enormeous change to what a Bonnaroo looks like to the point of changing most of it's undercard or entire stages and that it's not very recognizable anymore. That's not r e a l i s t i c imo.
I think our lineup looks like the 2010-2015 era, only with gender parity. It looks nothing like III Points, and the parity is the only similarity to Prima. The fact people just keep trotting our “ItS NoT PRimIvERA” for stuff that looks nothing like that fest just exposes how lazy this argument is.
The point is not that it's the exact same line up as the festivals mentioned, it's that the amount of niche acts could add up to the point of drastically changing how your line up may perceived and for the record I do think yours looks more realistic than most of the line ups being presented here.
Monie Bear Top heavy for sure. Honestly looks like a Lolla/ACL dual headliners split. You even have it on the poster like that. I would love Mr. Bungle, but that’s my vote for single least likely act. Witches>Bungle>Ministry is a great run, but it’s a Riot Fest run.
The poster is literally the 2019 bonnaroo poster. I formatted the top two lines exactly how they listed them, so it's not meant to be dual headliners each day (although i guess we're doing skrillex LN what, so I guess that's a bit like dual headliners).
And roo has had metal tents before. So that is what we were going for with that run. I don't think that having one tent on one day of a 4 day festival makes it have Riot vibes.
On another note, when are our votes due? This is going to be a whole thing going through these lineups and commenting/rating them.
Neither of these lineups are very realistic to me, just in different ways. There's no universe in which Frank Ocean and Aphex Twin play on the same day at Bonnaroo, and I don't see Dolly headlining ever. Frank/Neil really is one of my favorite combos in this draft but you gotta water that shit down in the next couple lines, not draft Aphex Twin and SOAD. The Todd/Jortles lineup is just way too strong and peppered with rare acts.
While DE/WIPP don't have "too big" realism to worry about, this doesn't feel to me like something Bonnaroo would book. MCR, ELO, and Bad Bunny sure is an eclectic mix, and Pharrell wouldn't have the guestlist he'd have at Coach, so I don't know how much of a draw he'd be at #2 on his day. And Rihanna/MCR/Dead&Co...idk MCR just feels too out of place to me.
For realism, I'm giving Todd/Jortles a 2.5 and DE/WIPP a 7.5.
When it comes to quality, I think Todd/Jortles have an advantage that's largely due to the caliber of artists they drafted. However, I think they come closer to nailing Bonnaroo's brand and eclecticism than DE/WIPP - DE/WIPP's is a little too edgy overall for Roo's audience. But they did draft good acts...hmm. There's a bit to adjust for with both teams, but in the end I'm giving a slight nod to Todd/Jortles for booking a more Roo lineup.
For quality, I'm giving Todd/Jortles a 6 and DE/WIPP a 4.
Todd/Jortles - 8.5 DE/WIPP - 11.5
What's funny is back when I cared about this game my attitude was to draft artists that will probably never end up playing Bonnaroo in real life, but totally should (Dolly Parton being a prime example). I thought this was supposed to be a fun fantasy draft. But now it's kind of hilarious that everyone is tearing each other down for not being mediocre enough? Like what was the point of this game?
The realism aspect of it has been drilled in since the beginning, and I stated back then that this is how I would be scoring and voting. Drafting artists that would never end up playing Bonnaroo and keeping things realistic are two opposing strategies.
I will vote for whatever team took Fastball (a cheaper version of 3eb with similarly good hits).
as the team with third eye blind, i agree. Fastball is easily the most underrated 90s band.
My friend was thinking about going to a Bernie event or something in Austin that they were playing and he was like "eh, why go just for the Way?" and I was like "oh, so we're just going to pretend Out of My Head and Fire Escape never happened?"
How are you guys quantifying the quality of a line up? I'm thinking about filling out my route for each line up and see what's best of those two but it's hard for me to quantify that. I liked Julie's approach with a clear division between headliners and undercard but I feel like I should specify more in that idk.
I just want to point out that Maddog / Cap only have TWO zoomer acts and ZERO wook acts in their top 20.
Pearl Jam - Gorillaz - Tool Tyler, The Creator - Florence + The Machine - Lionel Richie Kraftwerk - Patti Smith -Thom Yorke - Jamiroquai - The Avett Brothers Kali Uchis - Lil Wayne - Danny Elfman - PJ Harvey - Tears For Fears Explosions in the Sky - The Decemberists - Questlove - The Black Angels
I just want to point out that Maddog / Cap only have TWO zoomer acts and ZERO wook acts in their top 20.
Pearl Jam - Gorillaz - Tool Tyler, The Creator - Florence + The Machine - Lionel Richie Kraftwerk - Patti Smith -Thom Yorke - Jamiroquai - The Avett Brothers Kali Uchis - Lil Wayne - Danny Elfman - PJ Harvey - Tears For Fears Explosions in the Sky - The Decemberists - Questlove - The Black Angels
How are you guys quantifying the quality of a line up? I'm thinking about filling out my route for each line up and see what's best of those two but it's hard for me to quantify that. I liked Julie's approach with a clear division between headliners and undercard but I feel like I should specify more in that idk.
Realism-scores are done tho.
10 pts for headliners that I like. 5 for acts that I like on the next 2 lines. 3 pts for next 2 lines. 2 pts for the next 2 lines. 1 pt for any line below that. Then I ranked the lineups using those numbers. Then I assigned everyone a score on the 0-10 scale.
How are you guys quantifying the quality of a line up? I'm thinking about filling out my route for each line up and see what's best of those two but it's hard for me to quantify that. I liked Julie's approach with a clear division between headliners and undercard but I feel like I should specify more in that idk.
Realism-scores are done tho.
10 pts for headliners that I like. 5 for acts that I like on the next 2 lines. 3 pts for next 2 lines. 2 pts for the next 2 lines. 1 pt for any line below that. Then I ranked the lineups using those numbers. Then I assigned everyone a score on the 0-10 scale.
I voted Infinity lineups using something similar but I think it’s flawed for this because it disregards the mandatory schedules.
I just want to point out that Maddog / Cap only have TWO zoomer acts and ZERO wook acts in their top 20.
Pearl Jam - Gorillaz - Tool Tyler, The Creator - Florence + The Machine - Lionel Richie Kraftwerk - Patti Smith -Thom Yorke - Jamiroquai - The Avett Brothers Kali Uchis - Lil Wayne - Danny Elfman - PJ Harvey - Tears For Fears Explosions in the Sky - The Decemberists - Questlove - The Black Angels
Lineup leans very old
So maybe they bring in a slightly older crowd. Couldn't matter any less to me.
10 pts for headliners that I like. 5 for acts that I like on the next 2 lines. 3 pts for next 2 lines. 2 pts for the next 2 lines. 1 pt for any line below that. Then I ranked the lineups using those numbers. Then I assigned everyone a score on the 0-10 scale.
I voted Infinity lineups using something similar but I think it’s flawed for this because it disregards the mandatory schedules.
10 pts for headliners that I like. 5 for acts that I like on the next 2 lines. 3 pts for next 2 lines. 2 pts for the next 2 lines. 1 pt for any line below that. Then I ranked the lineups using those numbers. Then I assigned everyone a score on the 0-10 scale.
I voted Infinity lineups using something similar but I think it’s flawed for this because it disregards the mandatory schedules.
I won't get into schedules this rd unless the matchup is really close.
Post by Jake Jortles on Sept 1, 2020 9:09:42 GMT -5
It looks like I wouldn't have an issue arguing that our lineup is better than Passion / DE's. Not really much of a question. My work life has been thrown for a whirl here though, and I'm not sure I'll find the time to argue the realism bullshit, especially given the amount of bias I'd have to fight through due to us keeping Aphex Twin. A couple people pointed out that our lineup isn't relevant enough or that it's too old. I think that is a great criticism and I agree with it and would do some things differently to correct for that if I had the opportunity to do it over again. The criticism that Frank and Aphex would never play Bonnaroo is everything that was wrong with this game. You actually have to be brave to vote for our lineup because of the cloud of bullshit that has nothing to do with the quality of the lineup surrounding it. Glad we tried a new format, but hammering home the definition and goal of the game before starting was imperative even if it would have taken 150 pages to reach a consensus.
It looks like I wouldn't have an issue arguing that our lineup is better than Passion / DE's. Not really much of a question. My work life has been thrown for a whirl here though, and I'm not sure I'll find the time to argue the realism bullshit, especially given the amount of bias I'd have to fight through due to us keeping Aphex Twin. A couple people pointed out that our lineup isn't relevant enough or that it's too old. I think that is a great criticism and I agree with it and would do some things differently to correct for that if I had the opportunity to do it over again. The criticism that Frank and Aphex would never play Bonnaroo is everything that was wrong with this game. You actually have to be brave to vote for our lineup because of the cloud of bullshit that has nothing to do with the quality of the lineup surrounding it. Glad we tried a new format, but hammering home the definition and goal of the game before starting was imperative even if it would have taken 150 pages to reach a consensus.
Will be sitting down to do this tomorrow evening, I think. Still trying to determine exactly what process/rubric I'm going to use...for this first round, I might not list the numbers itself, just the winner of the matchup, and then will get numerical with it henceforth post first round.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Love the idea that the wooks who still listen to pretty lights are young and hip. Taking up your precious mind came out in like 2008? 10?
Coming up on classic rock territory bud.
Roger? Kacey isnt exactly zoomer exclusive. My 6 yr old sister and 50 yr old parents went to the same show I did separately. Lmao MBV is a bad horror movie to kids. Ptm also an old band. D'Angelo? Lmao HERBIE!!!! it's not like you really leaned into it.
This was everyone’s concern at the start of the draft, where it was like “oh wait we actually have to draft bad lineups?”
Bottom line is that everyone is using a different mechanism for “realism” and that’s a problem in voting. There are also quite a few people who clearly take realism as “Bonnaroo wouldn’t book this because it’s too good” which completely ruins the point of the game imo.
You can book 'acts that are too good to be booked by Bonnaroo', you just have to compremise those acts with other acts in my opinion. Bonnaroo is not III Points or Primavera and when I'm seeing like twenty acts on a certain line-up that are very niche, you can't just justify that with saying "oh, but they don't cost that much so it's fine. We're just making Roo better." You're taking a massive leap and making an enormeous change to what a Bonnaroo looks like to the point of changing most of it's undercard or entire stages and that it's not very recognizable anymore. That's not r e a l i s t i c imo.
If Paul Simon wanted to play Bonnaroo you'd think he'd have already done it. Seems like we might be in unrealistic territory. They've probably also asked, or been turned away by price.
Love the idea that the wooks who still listen to pretty lights are young and hip. Taking up your precious mind came out in like 2008? 10?
Coming up on classic rock territory bud.
Roger? Kacey isnt exactly zoomer exclusive. My 6 yr old sister and 50 yr old parents went to the same show I did separately. Lmao MBV is a bad horror movie to kids. Ptm also an old band. D'Angelo? Lmao HERBIE!!!! it's not like you really leaned into it.
Weird flex.
Kendrick, Grizmatik, Doja, Dicky, Young Thug, Mac DeMarco, Ella Mai
If Paul Simon wanted to play Bonnaroo you'd think he'd have already done it. Seems like we might be in unrealistic territory. They've probably also asked, or been turned away by price.
Right. You could basically make this argument for just about any act that hasn't played Bonnaroo but has been around for a while. That's why the whole thing is so silly. There's also a ton of "for me, but not for thee" going on here where people who have insanely implausible acts/collections of acts are going "nuh uh, mine are realistic but yours aren't".
From my perspective the only way I'm docking points is if I feel like the act in question just probably wouldn't play Bonnaroo no matter what the fest did.
