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Need to stop watching StopAntisemitism videos on Twitter. Infuriating to watch them try and often succeed to ruin people’s lives for tearing down the propaganda posters.
Are you referring to the people who are tearing down posters of hostages?
Yes. Those posters aren’t going to do anything to get hostages home. They’re just fuel for people to support Israel’s genocide.
Are you referring to the people who are tearing down posters of hostages?
Yes. Those posters aren’t going to do anything to get hostages home. They’re just fuel for people to support Israel’s genocide.
Are people not allowed a space to grieve? I'm not sure that I can think of another instance where people went around tearing down posters that were put up, of innocent people who have been taken hostage.
Yes. Those posters aren’t going to do anything to get hostages home. They’re just fuel for people to support Israel’s genocide.
Are people not allowed a space to grieve? I'm not sure that I can think of another instance where people went around tearing down posters that were put up, of innocent people who have been taken hostage.
I’m not sure what the intent was, could have been altruistic, but I don’t think it has played out as a space to grieve. For one, there is no mention on the posters about the atrocities Israel has committed. People would have been a lot less upset if they showed some concern for Palestinans on the posters. These posters are covering every wall in some neighborhoods so of course it’s going to upset Palestinian people and allies. They’ve turned into traps to catch the “bad” activists tearing them down… And whether it is right or wrong to tear them down, I do believe it’s wrong to try to find them on the internet and get them expelled, fired, etc. A lot of the people tearing them down are just college kids.
Are people not allowed a space to grieve? I'm not sure that I can think of another instance where people went around tearing down posters that were put up, of innocent people who have been taken hostage.
I’m not sure what the intent was, could have been altruistic, but I don’t think it has played out as a space to grieve. For one, there is no mention on the posters about the atrocities Israel has committed. People would have been a lot less upset if they showed some concern for Palestinans on the posters. These posters are covering every wall in some neighborhoods so of course it’s going to upset Palestinian people and allies. They’ve turned into traps to catch the “bad” activists tearing them down… And whether it is right or wrong to tear them down, I do believe it’s wrong to try to find them on the internet and get them expelled, fired, etc. A lot of the people tearing them down are just college kids.
Those posters are very much a grieving mechanism, as are the empty Shabbat tables that have been set up in different communities around the globe. People do not want their family and friends, who are being held against their will in unknown conditions, being forgotten. If the faces of innocent hostages up on a poster is triggering for someone, I would think that person might need to take a long look in the mirror and/or reevaluate their values. I certainly haven't seen Israeli representation within instances of Palestinian grieving, why hold Israelis and/or Jews to a different standard?
College "kids" are old enough to know better. They are also old enough to face the consequences of their actions, whatever those may be. If you don't want people to see you doing something, maybe don't do it in public.
Are people not allowed a space to grieve? I'm not sure that I can think of another instance where people went around tearing down posters that were put up, of innocent people who have been taken hostage.
I’m not sure what the intent was, could have been altruistic, but I don’t think it has played out as a space to grieve. For one, there is no mention on the posters about the atrocities Israel has committed. People would have been a lot less upset if they showed some concern for Palestinans on the posters. These posters are covering every wall in some neighborhoods so of course it’s going to upset Palestinian people and allies. They’ve turned into traps to catch the “bad” activists tearing them down… And whether it is right or wrong to tear them down, I do believe it’s wrong to try to find them on the internet and get them expelled, fired, etc. A lot of the people tearing them down are just college kids.
yep reminds me of certain news outlets that are currently doing a thing where they basically ignore/downplay the situation over there -- e.g. each worsening atrocity being committed upon Palestinians day after day -- in their coverage until something comes up that is sympathetic to Israel (e.g. hostages still being kept in Palestine, which is of course horrible - no one in this thread thinks those innocent Israeli citizens deserve to be hostages).
again, it is HORRIBLE for the 200ish Israeli hostages in Gaza, this is evident. but the Israeli people as a whole are not be actively genocided/ethnically cleansed right now like Palestinians are. they have not had over 4k CHILDREN die at the hands of "the other side."
so yeah posters that are only displaying photos of hostages and acting like that is the one and only issue right now....... i can certainly see why some people have resorted to tearing them down
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
I’m not sure what the intent was, could have been altruistic, but I don’t think it has played out as a space to grieve. For one, there is no mention on the posters about the atrocities Israel has committed. People would have been a lot less upset if they showed some concern for Palestinans on the posters. These posters are covering every wall in some neighborhoods so of course it’s going to upset Palestinian people and allies. They’ve turned into traps to catch the “bad” activists tearing them down… And whether it is right or wrong to tear them down, I do believe it’s wrong to try to find them on the internet and get them expelled, fired, etc. A lot of the people tearing them down are just college kids.
yep reminds me of certain news outlets that are currently doing a thing where they basically ignore/downplay the situation over there -- e.g. each worsening atrocity being committed upon Palestinians day after day -- in their coverage until something comes up that is sympathetic to Israel (e.g. hostages still being kept in Palestine, which is of course horrible - no one in this thread thinks those innocent Israeli citizens deserve to be hostages).
again, it is HORRIBLE for the 200ish Israeli hostages in Gaza, this is evident. but the Israeli people as a whole are not be actively genocided/ethnically cleansed right now like Palestinians are. they have not had over 4k CHILDREN die at the hands of "the other side."
so yeah posters that are only displaying photos of hostages and acting like that is the one and only issue right now....... i can certainly see why some people have resorted to tearing them down
So are Jewish people not allowed a space for their own grieving? It must be shared in each and every instance with Palestinian suffering and grieving? Would it be acceptable for people to also silence instances of Palestinian grieving where Israeli victims aren't represented?
I’m not sure what the intent was, could have been altruistic, but I don’t think it has played out as a space to grieve. For one, there is no mention on the posters about the atrocities Israel has committed. People would have been a lot less upset if they showed some concern for Palestinans on the posters. These posters are covering every wall in some neighborhoods so of course it’s going to upset Palestinian people and allies. They’ve turned into traps to catch the “bad” activists tearing them down… And whether it is right or wrong to tear them down, I do believe it’s wrong to try to find them on the internet and get them expelled, fired, etc. A lot of the people tearing them down are just college kids.
Those posters are very much a grieving mechanism, as are the empty Shabbat tables that have been set up in different communities around the globe. People do not want their family and friends, who are being held against their will in unknown conditions, being forgotten. If the faces of innocent hostages up on a poster is triggering for someone, I would think that person might need to take a long look in the mirror and/or reevaluate their values. I certainly haven't seen Israeli representation within instances of Palestinian grieving, why hold Israelis and/or Jews to a different standard?
College "kids" are old enough to know better. They are also old enough to face the consequences of their actions, whatever those may be. If you don't want people to see you doing something, maybe don't do it in public.
I don’t think we’re going to see eye to eye about this. But I don’t think we can reasonably expect an oppressed people to show sympathy for the people that are oppressing them. As someone who is personally not Palestinian or Jewish, I have empathy for all the people affected, but I don’t expect someone directly impacted by an apartheid regime to feel the same way. This should go without saying, but anti-Semistism is obviously something that you should be called out and condemned… there is no place for it in protests or anywhere else.
And to the college point, I know I wasn’t always thinking straight my freshmen year (and pretty much all years). Your brain isn’t fully developed yet.
Those posters are very much a grieving mechanism, as are the empty Shabbat tables that have been set up in different communities around the globe. People do not want their family and friends, who are being held against their will in unknown conditions, being forgotten. If the faces of innocent hostages up on a poster is triggering for someone, I would think that person might need to take a long look in the mirror and/or reevaluate their values. I certainly haven't seen Israeli representation within instances of Palestinian grieving, why hold Israelis and/or Jews to a different standard?
College "kids" are old enough to know better. They are also old enough to face the consequences of their actions, whatever those may be. If you don't want people to see you doing something, maybe don't do it in public.
I don’t think we’re going to see eye to eye about this. But I don’t think we can reasonably expect an oppressed people to show sympathy for the people that are oppressing them. As someone who is personally not Palestinian or Jewish, I have empathy for all the people affected, but I don’t expect someone directly impacted by an apartheid regime to feel the same way. This should go without saying, but anti-Semistism is obviously something that you should be called out and condemned… there is no place for it in protests or anywhere else.
And to the college point, I know I wasn’t always thinking straight my freshmen year (and pretty much all years). Your brain isn’t fully developed yet.
I don't expect Palestinians to show sympathy for innocent Israeli victims of 10/7, but I don't think that's what we are talking about. If we are mostly talking about college students who are pulling down the posters, those people are not the oppressed (I would also argue that not pulling down the posters does not equate to an act of sympathy, at best it's indifference). Nor do the posters depict oppressors, they depict innocent civilians, including children and the elderly.
Post by xfinitypass on Nov 9, 2023 18:21:48 GMT -5
I don’t take issue with someone having an issue with people yanking down Israeli hostage flyers. Just an issue with people choosing to focus in on that rather than the mass murder of Palestinians. It’s clearly a not so subtle attempt to focus in on every smaller scale wrong being committed by Palestinians or protestors from elsewhere to deflect attention away from the ethnic cleansing Israel is doing. It’s sounding the alarm over something that was simply in bad taste but ultimately did little harm, while not sounding the alarm over the thousands of civilians (a huge portion of which are children) dying.
This isn't one or the other, thousands of innocent people have been slaughtered, and all people have a right to grieve and mourn. Putting up posters of innocent hostages isn't intended to take anything away from the thousands of innocent Palestinians who have died since the beginning of this war. I also take issue with your framing of ripping down the posters as simply being "in bad taste but ultimately did little harm". It's a vile act that adds trauma to people who have already been traumatized. No one needs to blow out anyone else's candle to make their own shine brighter.
This isn't one or the other, thousands of innocent people have been slaughtered, and all people have a right to grieve and mourn. Putting up posters of innocent hostages isn't intended to take anything away from the thousands of innocent Palestinians who have died since the beginning of this war. I also take issue with your framing of ripping down the posters as simply being "in bad taste but ultimately did little harm". It's a vile act that adds trauma to people who have already been traumatized. No one needs to blow out anyone else's candle to make their own shine brighter.
this isn’t a war. This is a military superpower committing genocide against a population [of mostly kids] who have next to nothing to defend themselves against the level of military weaponry that Israel possesses.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
This isn't one or the other, thousands of innocent people have been slaughtered, and all people have a right to grieve and mourn. Putting up posters of innocent hostages isn't intended to take anything away from the thousands of innocent Palestinians who have died since the beginning of this war. I also take issue with your framing of ripping down the posters as simply being "in bad taste but ultimately did little harm". It's a vile act that adds trauma to people who have already been traumatized. No one needs to blow out anyone else's candle to make their own shine brighter.
this isn’t a war. This is a military superpower committing genocide against a population [of mostly kids] who have next to nothing to defend themselves against the level of military weaponry that Israel possesses.
You can call it whatever you want, but the official name for what began on October 7th is literally the "Israel-Hamas War".
this isn’t a war. This is a military superpower committing genocide against a population [of mostly kids] who have next to nothing to defend themselves against the level of military weaponry that Israel possesses.
You can call it whatever you want, but the official name for what began on October 7th is literally the "Israel-Hamas War".
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
The posters, the posters. Won't somebody please think of the posters? 😢
Hey Gab! I noticed you liked posting videos from Twitter documenting some of the horrific atrocities we've seen unfold over the last month. Here's one I haven't seen you post yet.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Post by piggy pablo on Nov 10, 2023 0:25:15 GMT -5
Israel has no use for those citizens other than further propaganda in support of their genocide. Their lives are expendable so long as the Israeli government gets to continue to kill Palestinian children. That's why no one here cares about people tearing down posters, because it's a fake concern the NY Post can throw on their front page to make people hate the Free Palestine movement, and we're not ignorant enough to fall for it.
Israel has no use for those citizens other than further propaganda in support of their genocide. Their lives are expendable so long as the Israeli government gets to continue to kill Palestinian children. That's why no one here cares about people tearing down posters, because it's a fake concern the NY Post can throw on their front page to make people hate the Free Palestine movement, and we're not ignorant enough to fall for it.
The poster stuff is a stupid distraction. I don't particularly care about it. Why should I when the people with the most responsibility in getting these folks back don't seem to give a shit. Outside of using them in rhetoric.
I will do a little tone policing and say it is a pointless thing for Pro-Palestinian folks to do. Precisely because they are making themselves into propaganda. If you're going to do confrontational shit direct it at politicians or weapons companies. If you're on a campus perhaps direct it at the Dean or governing bodies impeding freedom of speech on campus... if applicable. The most ripping down posters does is make media clips that are outside your control and you likely will have no moment to express an actual opinion on anything. Playing into the oppositions hands basically.
Post by piggy pablo on Nov 10, 2023 1:20:03 GMT -5
Perhaps, but here we are now talking about it. It can be hard to decide what's a worthwhile protest when the reporting of such protests might be controlled by your ideological enemy.
Israel has no use for those citizens other than further propaganda in support of their genocide. Their lives are expendable so long as the Israeli government gets to continue to kill Palestinian children. That's why no one here cares about people tearing down posters, because it's a fake concern the NY Post can throw on their front page to make people hate the Free Palestine movement, and we're not ignorant enough to fall for it.
Even if you believe that the Israeli government doesn't care about those hostages, that doesn't change the fact that those posters depict real people, who are innocent, and being held captive against their will. Those are people's children, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, cousins, & friends. People are mourning, and I assure you their concern is very real. Those posters are absolutely a grieving mechanism. A central pillar in mourning within Judaism is preserving the memory of those who have been lost, so if you believe it's okay to try blot out those memories by vandalizing the empty Shabbat tables that have been put up, or ripping down the posters with their photos, than I would argue you are morally bankrupt.
