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Next weeks preview had Ben saying he came back to The Island cause The Island has to judge him. It looks crazy.
SMOKE MONSTER!!!
And I'm gonna give Ben some credit, I actually don't think he's evil. I think he has some major communication problems and he's an avid liar, but I think we'll learn that his intentions were all in the interest of the island.
Post by viciouscircle on Apr 2, 2009 18:19:12 GMT -5
Yeah, next week looks like it may be the freakiest episode yet.
Hey jhointn, how about both Sawyer's ex and Kate saying that she took Aaron because after being hurt by Sawyer, she "needed" him. Yeah, because as every girl knows, there is just no way to get through a breakup without kidnapping a baby! Jeez. Gag.
And I'm gonna give Ben some credit, I actually don't think he's evil. I think he has some major communication problems and he's an avid liar, but I think we'll learn that his intentions were all in the interest of the island.
I agree. I don't think he is any more evil than most of the people involved with the island, although he may be creepier. He is doing whatever he thinks he needs to to preserve the island, and all of the Dharma people and the Others were willing to kill to do the same.
Post by awolfatthedoor on Apr 3, 2009 3:54:03 GMT -5
I don't understand how people are giving Ben a free pass but still think Jack is awful. Have we all forgot that Ben killed Locke in cold blood and for no apparent reason. Ben lies and does other things so he can remain in power.
While it is clear that Jack does not know how his actions in their present will affect Ben or anyone else's future, I still understand how Jack would want to change his past, by changing Ben's future, to make it to where him and the other Lostees would not have to go through the suffering and attacks led by Ben. And even if you didn't know you how your actions would affect the future, or change your past in the future, wouldn't you still try? I know if I had gone through what Jack has gone through on the Island a lot of it caused by Ben, then I might be doing the same thing. I mean to those of you who think he is a bad person put yourself in his situation. I think most of you would be that upset with Ben too.
And Sawyer is not a good guy. He left his kid. That makes you a bad guy in my book. Jack isn't a good guy either. I don't want to make the inevitable Jack v. Sawyer argument because both of them are Summers breeze, man bags.
And there is no way they can change anything. Their doomed to do what has already happened. Because if they killed Ben then their past wouldn't be the same meaning their actions in the present and the future would change also. And if they can change the past then this show has gone off the rails.
Last Edit: Apr 3, 2009 3:55:52 GMT -5 by awolfatthedoor - Back to Top
Yeah, next week looks like it may be the freakiest episode yet.
Hey jhointn, how about both Sawyer's ex and Kate saying that she took Aaron because after being hurt by Sawyer, she "needed" him. Yeah, because as every girl knows, there is just no way to get through a breakup without kidnapping a baby! Jeez. Gag.
This bothered me as well. There was alot of talk about Kate being hurt by Sawyer and her being in love with him. I didn't get that at all from their previous interaction. I always thought she was using Sawyer to get to Jack. I did always thought Sawyer was in love with her though.
Post by viciouscircle on Apr 3, 2009 9:38:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I never really saw her as truly being in love with either of them. And it seemed with Sawyer it was more of a brother-sister bond. One that got a little creepy every now and then with occasional sex, but still mainly a sibling kind of love.
Eww. Now I've grossed myself out thinking about it.
Hey jhointn, how about both Sawyer's ex and Kate saying that she took Aaron because after being hurt by Sawyer, she "needed" him. Yeah, because as every girl knows, there is just no way to get through a breakup without kidnapping a baby! Jeez. Gag.
I know after my last breakup, I kidnapped some twins. But I got rid of them because they cost too much money, always wanting juice boxes and whatnot.
I don't understand how people are giving Ben a free pass but still think Jack is awful. Have we all forgot that Ben killed Locke in cold blood and for no apparent reason. Ben lies and does other things so he can remain in power.
While it is clear that Jack does not know how his actions in their present will affect Ben or anyone else's future, I still understand how Jack would want to change his past, by changing Ben's future, to make it to where him and the other Lostees would not have to go through the suffering and attacks led by Ben. And even if you didn't know you how your actions would affect the future, or change your past in the future, wouldn't you still try? I know if I had gone through what Jack has gone through on the Island a lot of it caused by Ben, then I might be doing the same thing. I mean to those of you who think he is a bad person put yourself in his situation. I think most of you would be that upset with Ben too.
I pretty much agree with this. To Jack it's not a kid. It's Ben. And it's not like he killed him. All he had to do was refuse to help. He already saved Ben's life once and obviously regretted it. I woulda done the same thing.
I don't understand how people are giving Ben a free pass but still think Jack is awful. Have we all forgot that Ben killed Locke in cold blood and for no apparent reason. Ben lies and does other things so he can remain in power.
There was a reason Ben killed Locke, but I just don't think we know it yet. The Island may have told him or he may have felt like it was something he needed to do. I have a feeling we may find out next week.... perhaps that's how Ben broke the rules?
While it is clear that Jack does not know how his actions in their present will affect Ben or anyone else's future, I still understand how Jack would want to change his past, by changing Ben's future, to make it to where him and the other Lostees would not have to go through the suffering and attacks led by Ben. And even if you didn't know you how your actions would affect the future, or change your past in the future, wouldn't you still try? I know if I had gone through what Jack has gone through on the Island a lot of it caused by Ben, then I might be doing the same thing. I mean to those of you who think he is a bad person put yourself in his situation. I think most of you would be that upset with Ben too.
No, actually, I wouldn't try to change the past. I would be the John Locke of the Island; I believe everything happens for a reason, and I would go with the flow. Jack, on the other hand, needs to be in control of every situation, and that's what I find annoying. Even in real life, I find the people with dominant personalities annoying. Things will work themselves out, Jack dude!
And Sawyer is not a good guy. He left his kid. That makes you a bad guy in my book. Jack isn't a good guy either. I don't want to make the inevitable Jack v. Sawyer argument because both of them are Summers breeze, man bags.
Neither of them are "good guys", but to give them credit, everyone has flaws. But I think that the time on the Island has changed both Jack and Sawyer (we're seeing the changes in Sawyer now, and I think we'll see the changes in Jack soon).
Sawyer has come to realize, as John Locke (and Rose) realized early on, that the Island is probably the best thing that has ever happened to him because, for once in his life, he's finally HAPPY and feels like he's wanted. He has a purpose and he found love, what more could anyone ask for?
I don't understand how people are giving Ben a free pass but still think Jack is awful. Have we all forgot that Ben killed Locke in cold blood and for no apparent reason. Ben lies and does other things so he can remain in power.
While it is clear that Jack does not know how his actions in their present will affect Ben or anyone else's future, I still understand how Jack would want to change his past, by changing Ben's future, to make it to where him and the other Lostees would not have to go through the suffering and attacks led by Ben. And even if you didn't know you how your actions would affect the future, or change your past in the future, wouldn't you still try? I know if I had gone through what Jack has gone through on the Island a lot of it caused by Ben, then I might be doing the same thing. I mean to those of you who think he is a bad person put yourself in his situation. I think most of you would be that upset with Ben too.
And Sawyer is not a good guy. He left his kid. That makes you a bad guy in my book. Jack isn't a good guy either. I don't want to make the inevitable Jack v. Sawyer argument because both of them are Summers breeze, man bags.
And there is no way they can change anything. Their doomed to do what has already happened. Because if they killed Ben then their past wouldn't be the same meaning their actions in the present and the future would change also. And if they can change the past then this show has gone off the rails.
The basic reasons I think Jack is a jerk for his choice:
1) I reject the principle of utilitarianism. The end does not justify the means, particularly when the means are to allow a child to suffer and die. 2) I embrace the fundamentals of medical ethics. Jack is a doctor, and he is not supposed to make judgements on any person's value as a human being in regard to his treatment of a person medically. This isn't even the first time he has done that. 3) If Jack wants to change the future, there are many ways to do that that do not involve the suffering and death of a child. I think he chooses that path instead of any other not entirely out of a desire to change the future, but because of his pride and the fact that time and time again, Ben has outsmarted him, and Jack hates when that happens. That is not a good motivation for enabling the suffering and death of a child. 4) What Ben is at that point in time is a child, period. I wouldn't kill a kid. Period. Jack should maybe try a little be-here-now, he's living at a place called the dharma initiative for pete's sake.
As far as understanding why he might want to act as he did, sure, I can understand the feeling, but adults don't base their every important action on feelings. Juliette, Sawyer and Kate have all been through just as much, in Juliette's case even more, yet they can act according to core principles - Juliette, as a doctor, especially. And yes, the situation on the island is not a normal situation. But a principle abandoned when circumstances change is not a principle at all.
I don't think anyone is saying Ben is a great guy. But ultimately, he may be acting out of a desire to save the island, which makes him no different than any of the rest of the Dharma people or Others, all of whom have killed for the same reason. The Dharma people were ready to kill Sayid, and they didn't even have anything on him except trespassing. None of them are holy, but at least Ben is entertaining.
My co-workers and I have been having a Lost discussion this morning regarding the reason why Richard Alpert said Ben would never be the same after he helped him. I think that perhaps Ben died shortly after RA took him, or RA killed him, and he was "resurrected", if you will. You sell your soul to the Island in return for a new life. That would explain the ties to the Island, and the need to protect it.
Perhaps that is what made a Hostile what they were, the fact that they had been resurrected and now have have an allegiance to the Island. (I say Hostile and not an Other, as I would call the Others those that were around after Ben "took over") But we have those that have died since Ben took over, such as Christian Shepard, that I believe are following along those as the Hostiles. I've always felt that Christian was speaking on behalf of the Island, and that would make sense, if the Island gave him new life.
Post by viciouscircle on Apr 3, 2009 10:58:32 GMT -5
Impressive theory. That makes perfect sense to me. But what will happen to Locke? Maybe Locke is so important because he may have the ability to go through that process of resurrection without it eating his soul. One of the things I think makes Locke more impressive than Jack is that although they both have big daddy issues, Locke does not express those issues through bitterness and a need to control everything. Maybe whatever it is in him that has allowed him to suffer yet keep his dignity will make him the one who can have the resurrection yet still be truly fit to lead. Or maybe I just like him too much.
Also I had a crazy dream last night where Locke was driving around with me and we were talking about Lost. Then we got chased by the cops. I think I might have a problem
Also I had a crazy dream last night where Locke was driving around with me and we were talking about Lost. Then we got chased by the cops. I think I might have a problem
That's just a good sign of dedication I'm so excited about this episode it was close to the first thing I thought about. It's going to be awesome
I saw Walt last night on Saving Grace. I don't know if his semi-regular role on that show will continue/increase and preclude him coming back on Lost.
I think Walt will be back on the show but not until next season and maybe not as a regular. I think he is important to the storyline since he seems to be special in the way that he has visions or can "see" things.
I feel fairly sure that the episode about Locke when he went to visit Walt will be the last you see of him. The conversation they had and then the way Locke acted after as Walt walked away makes it seem like that was his ending.
-When I Hear My Name -Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground -Blue Orchid -Passive Manipulation -Red Rain -Death Letter -My Doorbell -Hotel Yorba -Same Boy You've Always Known -Lovesick -Little Ghost -We're Going to Be Friends -The Hardest Button to Button -Black Math -The Nurse -I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself
Encore: -Ball and Biscuit -Seven Nation Army -Screwdriver
Post by awolfatthedoor on Apr 8, 2009 21:07:46 GMT -5
Ok first idea fresh after episode. What is up with the sort of cathartic music at the end? To me it seems like Ben has become a new man. But then again I have thought this before to be disappointed by him later. Next week looks to be amazing. Lost has gone off the charts awesome in my mind at least.
Jeez, crazy episode. Craziest of which was the way the ajira 316 survivors have turned out. ceasar got his due.
Yeah, I don't really like all that. Is their story really necessary? I really could care less about any of them except Lapitis.
This was a freakin fantastic episode though. I actually thought that Ben was gonna be killed there for a sec. Shoulda known better. I knew he still wanted to kill Locke too. Ben hates not being the "leader" and the one with the plan. Did Locke go to talk to Jacob when he went into the Jungle? I def think Ben is Locke's opposite. Like they both need each other for whatever it is they're doing.
Post by awolfatthedoor on Apr 8, 2009 21:20:53 GMT -5
I'm glad we have Locke to root for. But I agree I think that Locke went to go see Jacob good call. I'm also glad to see Ben being be confused because he's always the one pointlessly leaving out details all the time. What's the deal with the Alex thing? Is it for sure that she is like a Charlie ghost sort of deal thing because if not that is laaame.
Locke probably went into the jungle and captured a warthog and fed himself. But no Jacob is probably a good call. With all the stories needed to be tied together with just 5 episodes left or so it wouldnt surprise me to see that moment again and see the reveal of Jacob at the end of the season. Which would kinda disapoint me. I've heard that the last episode will feature jacob, but that wont be what everyone is talking about.
-When I Hear My Name -Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground -Blue Orchid -Passive Manipulation -Red Rain -Death Letter -My Doorbell -Hotel Yorba -Same Boy You've Always Known -Lovesick -Little Ghost -We're Going to Be Friends -The Hardest Button to Button -Black Math -The Nurse -I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself
Encore: -Ball and Biscuit -Seven Nation Army -Screwdriver
JHOinTN
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Resident Prince Licker
Dearly Beloved, We are Gathered Here Today to Get Through This Thing Called Life
This episode was amazing!!! My favorite one in months. I think we're finally seeing that beneath all of the evil, Ben is still a person. I believe the Alex that we saw was the physical manifestation of the smoke monster, much like Mr. Eko saw Yemi before he died by Smoke Monster. I also think that Ben having to follow every word of John Locke is his punishment from the Island.
The finale is titled "The Incident". Hopefully we can all deduce what we're going to find out.... I'm super excited about it!!
This episode was amazing!!! My favorite one in months. I think we're finally seeing that beneath all of the evil, Ben is still a person. I believe the Alex that we saw was the physical manifestation of the smoke monster, much like Mr. Eko saw Yemi before he died by Smoke Monster. I also think that Ben having to follow every word of John Locke is his punishment from the Island.
The finale is titled "The Incident". Hopefully we can all deduce what we're going to find out.... I'm super excited about it!!
Yeah, I think all the ghosts are manifestations of the island or the smoke monster in some way. I think Ben having to follow Locke is more of a "you're fired" from the island than just a temporary punishment, though. It's too bad she/it wasn't a little more specific, though - just telling Ben HE can't touch Locke doesn't mean he can't con others into deciding to do so on their own - that's what he had going with Caesar, before he shot him. And he's already setting up Sun to distrust John, so I suspect he will follow the letter of the instructions but still manage to be a big problem for Locke. I liked that we got to see a very human side of Ben, and I liked wathcing Locke be in complete control even more.
We do not need any more characters added. I hope the remaining new survivors are all killed off in the first ten minutes next week.
Post by viciouscircle on Apr 8, 2009 23:52:17 GMT -5
Me, too!
That episode was so great I think I'm going to watch it again.
But now I'm wondering about the dead people thing. If the dead people are manifestations of the island, then what is Locke? Is he just another manifestation? I don't like that idea. Plus if the dead are just dead, then Ben and Locke can't be half-brothers through their mother, and I think they are. So I am rescinding my previous statement that all the dead are just manifestations. I need a real Locke, not a ghost Locke. On the other other other hand, Locke was gone for exactly the time needed for the smoke monster to do its thing, so maybe Locke was the smoke monster...
No I think you're right about the smoke monster creating manifestations. You have Charlie, Boone, Weird long haired Dharma dude, Yemi, and now Alex. It might not even be the smoke monster, it could just be a general Island manifestation thing. I'm not sure.
What I am sure about is there are two people that have truly been resurrected.....Locke and Christian. That's what's important.
Post by viciouscircle on Apr 9, 2009 0:16:05 GMT -5
Christian scares the crap out of me. I hope we start seeing more of him.
So Widmore did not leave the island till after the Purge. It would seem then that Ben did not order that, and that his only participation in it may have been killing his father. Ben's murder count is getting lower all the time.
After this week's episode, the stuff going on with everyone in 1974/Dharmaland seems so boring. They are going to have to ratchet things up with that storyline.
It's going to be awesome 
