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Also I had a crazy dream last night where Locke was driving around with me and we were talking about Lost. Then we got chased by the cops. I think I might have a problem
The episode was great. I think definately one of the best, especially considering all the questions they answered about the smoke monster and the temple. I loved the hieroglyphics where the smoke monster lives, even though it opened up some new questions about the origins of the Island. I can't wait to see how all of this pans out. I agree that the Aijira survivors story is boring, I could care less. It was weird how they all seemed to turn evil or something there at the end.
So Widmore did not leave the island till after the Purge. It would seem then that Ben did not order that, and that his only participation in it may have been killing his father. Ben's murder count is getting lower all the time.
This makes sense. I was trying to figure out last night, if Ben did kill all of the Dharma folk, did he warn Ethan beforehand, and if not, why didn't Ethan die? But if Ben just killed his father, then maybe somebody else decided to let Ethan live . . . or maybe it was Ben. I don't know.
(On a totally random pop-culture trivia note, anybody notice that Ben's father was Lazlo, the guy who lived in the closet in the movie Real Genius? He's been in a bunch of stuff since then, including Seinfeld, but I always think of Real Genius when I see him.)
I agree that the Aijira survivors story is boring, I could care less. It was weird how they all seemed to turn evil or something there at the end.
I thought it was supposed to parallel whatever happened to Danielle's people. Weren't the new survivors acting pretty much the same as the ones who were with Danielle?
So Widmore did not leave the island till after the Purge. It would seem then that Ben did not order that, and that his only participation in it may have been killing his father. Ben's murder count is getting lower all the time.
This makes sense. I was trying to figure out last night, if Ben did kill all of the Dharma folk, did he warn Ethan beforehand, and if not, why didn't Ethan die? But if Ben just killed his father, then maybe somebody else decided to let Ethan live . . . or maybe it was Ben. I don't know.
I agree that the Aijira survivors story is boring, I could care less. It was weird how they all seemed to turn evil or something there at the end.
I thought it was supposed to parallel whatever happened to Danielle's people. Weren't the new survivors acting pretty much the same as the ones who were with Danielle?
When they show Ben with Ethan at Daniell's camp it was 1989, which was before The Purge I think. I believe the Purge happened in the early 90s. So Ethan was already with the others when the Dharma inititive was killed.
As far as the new survivors I agree they were acting weird like Danielle's group. I think they may have something to do with that. One more theory would be they were placed on the plane by Widmore. You know he knew about Ben's departure to the island that day b/c Ben called him from Penny's dock and told him. He could have rounded up people to put on the plane b/c he thinks he can't go back. All just theories though!
My theory stated last week was pretty much shot to hades this week, but I agree that Christian and Locke are both really alive and not manifestations of the Smoke Monster. I'm 95% sure the writers have said that Christian is alive and we'll find out why.
As for Widmore being the one to order the Purge, I think it's possible. It might not have been Ben's idea, but I think he was the one that was in charge of carrying it out. I'm starting to see tendencies in younger Ben like we see in Locke (Widmore being the "Ben" of the situation). Ben wants so bad to believe he's special that he'll do whatever is asked of him, ie. taking orders to kill. BUT, I will state that I believe Locke is actually special and Ben is not.
I think the Ajira people are disposable and will eventually die, but they're definitely there for a reason. I think they are there to answer: "What lies in the shadow of the statue?"
Plus if the dead are just dead, then Ben and Locke can't be half-brothers through their mother, and I think they are.
That's interesting. Why do you think they're half-brothers? And what would Locke actually being dead mess up that theory? (I haven't had enough coffee yet to digest everything just yet)
Post by viciouscircle on Apr 9, 2009 21:47:06 GMT -5
I would think they might be half brothers because both their mothers are named Emily and both were born 3 months premature, and because there seems to be a bit of Cain and Abel going on with them. Locke being actually dead wouldn't ruin that, but in order for it to be true, Ben's mother, who he has seen on the island but allegedly died in childbirth, would have to actually be alive, not just ghost alive, since Locke's mom showed up really alive to con him out of his kidney. Assuming that really was Locke's mom, I'm not sure if we know that for certain.
Post by viciouscircle on Apr 9, 2009 21:49:53 GMT -5
I don't really get what Ben was up to with setting up Caesar to interfere with Locke, just so he could shoot him dead. Now that we have seen more of Ben's history, it seems he hasn't ever really been in a big hurry to just kill people without a good reason (a good reason to him, at least) In the case of Caesar, just having possession of the gun was enough for Ben and Locke to leave, there was no reason there to actually kill him. So why did he? I assume he knows something about Caesar that we don't. And I want in on the secret!
Post by ChiefPemperToadWigginsky on Apr 10, 2009 0:14:33 GMT -5
I think that Ben and Locke are related as well, somehow. I don't think he planned on killing Caesar. just did it at the last minute to win Locke over. I think Ben always has 6 or 7 plans that shoot out in different directions just to see where they land. Always scamming and scheming. I think he will go against his daughter's ghost's judgement and try to kill locke again.
"Speaking of Smokey, at least we know what it is now - flush the cave toilet and your reward is a visit from the floating smoke turd. OK, not really, but what was up with that summoning process?"
I seem to remember that JJ Abrams said that it isnt Aliens. But seriously after this last episode what else could the mystery be? It just seems so Alien like.
Post by viciouscircle on Apr 10, 2009 9:27:10 GMT -5
I'm thinking there is going to be some kind of radiation incident with the bomb. And with Locke telling Sun that he has some ideas of how to get her to Sun, which suggests to me he is going to try to manipulate the time travel thing some more, the radiation incident could maybe take place in the distant past or during a time flash. Combined with the Island's already freaky time/space continuation nature, I kind of think maybe such an incident could explain alot of the mysteries. I'm not sure how, but ...
Yeah, now I've lost myself with this theory. Something along the lines of: (Radiation+time flash) divided by time/space defying Island equals some quacked up stuff - maybe even Richard not aging, people coming back from the dead and the creation of a seemingly immortal Jacob.
I'm thinking there is going to be some kind of radiation incident with the bomb. And with Locke telling Sun that he has some ideas of how to get her to Sun, which suggests to me he is going to try to manipulate the time travel thing some more, the radiation incident could maybe take place in the distant past or during a time flash. Combined with the Island's already freaky time/space continuation nature, I kind of think maybe such an incident could explain alot of the mysteries. I'm not sure how, but ...
Yeah, now I've lost myself with this theory. Something along the lines of: (Radiation+time flash) divided by time/space defying Island equals some quacked up stuff - maybe even Richard not aging, people coming back from the dead and the creation of a seemingly immortal Jacob.
I think that there's going to be a radiation leak and that could very well be "the incident". Remember when they first got to the Swan station, and there was all of the concrete poured over stuff? Sayid said he'd only seen something like that at Chernobyl.
And viciouscircle, I see what you're saying about Ben and Locke being half-brothers. I'm not sure if I believe it or not, but it's a possibility.
I've almost come to the conclusion that Jacob isn't real, that he was made up, like an idol, to scare people into submission. I realize that Locke has supposedly seen Jacob (and the mysterious cabin) so I'm not sure how plausible this theory is but the whole idea of Jacob seems a bit murky to me.
-When I Hear My Name -Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground -Blue Orchid -Passive Manipulation -Red Rain -Death Letter -My Doorbell -Hotel Yorba -Same Boy You've Always Known -Lovesick -Little Ghost -We're Going to Be Friends -The Hardest Button to Button -Black Math -The Nurse -I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself
Encore: -Ball and Biscuit -Seven Nation Army -Screwdriver
And viciouscircle, I see what you're saying about Ben and Locke being half-brothers. I'm not sure if I believe it or not, but it's a possibility.
Like I've said, I don't know about Ben and Locke being half-bros (although I do think it's possible), I do think that they're opposites. The whole ying/yang black/white theme. Whatever the case may be I think they need each other. They balance each other out.
Post by viciouscircle on Apr 10, 2009 19:34:49 GMT -5
I've been thinking about Charlotte's final words, "This place is death." I don't think she was just spouting off crazy-dying-person stuff, I think she was try to tell Daniel something very specific about the nature of the island. Then I was thinking about the smoke monster and the hieroglyph of Anubis and the smoke monster - Anubis is supposed to help the dead on their journey, and in that hieroglyph Anubis and Smokey seemed to be partners.So if everyone has seen the smoke monster, and the smoke monster by association with Anubis is supposed to be doing something as far as leading the dead, and Charlotte's "this place is death" proclamation is meant literally... then I hope this isn't leading towards a situation where they are all dead, always have been, and the whole island experience is just some sort of purgatory they need to go through. I doubt it would come down to something that trite, but on the other hand I think what Charlotte said matters, somehow.
I've been thinking about Charlotte's final words, "This place is death." I don't think she was just spouting off crazy-dying-person stuff, I think she was try to tell Daniel something very specific about the nature of the island. Then I was thinking about the smoke monster and the hieroglyph of Anubis and the smoke monster - Anubis is supposed to help the dead on their journey, and in that hieroglyph Anubis and Smokey seemed to be partners.So if everyone has seen the smoke monster, and the smoke monster by association with Anubis is supposed to be doing something as far as leading the dead, and Charlotte's "this place is death" proclamation is meant literally... then I hopethis isn't leading towards a situation where they are all dead, always have been, and the whole island experience is just some sort of purgatory they need to go through. I doubt it would come down to something that trite, but on the other hand I think what Charlotte said matters, somehow.
I thought Abrams and Lindelof said a long time ago that this was not the case. That they were not dead and The Island was not purgatory. I remember reading that and thinking, "Thank god." Cause I think that would be totally lame. They can't be dead, and aliens cannot be involved. Otherwise I will be highly disappointed in the series in the end.
Post by viciouscircle on Apr 10, 2009 19:48:54 GMT -5
Oh I never heard that. Phew - that's a relief. I would never watch another show that any of them were involved with if they pulled something like that - I'm still pissed at Abrams for royally screwing up Alias.
But so what was Charlotte talking about? And why are dying people always pulling the cryptic act? Grrr.
Maybe they said that in one of the commentaries from season 1 or 2 or from an interview I read. I can never remember where I hear these kinda things. I don't know what the deal is with the dead, other than that they don't ever really seem to be dead. Maybe if you die on the island your spirit remains there forever in some sort of limbo. That would be alright with me as long as The Island itself isn't purgatory and everyone is dead or this is all some sort of dream. I swear I'll kill someone if it winds up being like that in the end.
That would be alright with me as long as The Island itself isn't purgatory and everyone is dead or this is all some sort of dream. I swear I'll kill someone if it winds up being like that in the end.
Yeah, me too. All of the writers would have to go into hiding. Forever.
Post by ChiefPemperToadWigginsky on Apr 10, 2009 21:57:06 GMT -5
To me it doesn't matter what happens at the ending. My brother and I were talking the other day about how the mystery is the journey and that the writers are so good at throwing twists that the end will be sufficient enough but will have yet another mindfuk-twister. I think that no matter how it ends we still won't have the whole story. It's a game between the writers/actors/audience where everyone will win and everyone will lose. Does this make sense to anyone?
I think there is an entry on Lostpedia about how ben and locke could be brothers and the parallels between them and cain & abel.
I have also heard that the Island is not purgatory so danbird is not alone. The producers came out and said it after the first or second season, when that rumor was rampant. I also like danbird's idea that Ben and Locke balance each other out more than the half-brother theory. You can almost pair off everyone on the Island in that way if you think about it enough. There have also been theories that Farraday and Penny are brother and sister.... but I don't believe that either.
Regarding the hieroglyph of smokey and Anubis, I guess I thought Anubis was more of a stand-in for Everyman, though I see where you're coming from, viciouscircle. Do you think the statue is Anubis?? Cause I totally do.
And sirpemp, I also agree with you, to an extent. It's sort of like how I felt when the Harry Potter series ended (showing my inner dork here). It's going to be difficult to satisfy everyone that watches the show, but at the same time, I don't want them to say "eff it" and not even make an attempt at tying up loose ends and bringing everything full-circle. As long as they make a good attempt at that, I will be satisfied, no matter what may happen at the end.
