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^^^^What is possible and what is plausible are two completely different things.
If you're doing something you shouldn't be, then I hope to god you have done your research and understand your rights as a US citizen. Things like probable cause, warrants, and consitutional rights (not to mention safety in numbers as a general rule) all apply.
Seriously...quit operating in fear of your government. Man the fuck up people. At the very least you should know what you're willing to die for. The thought that the government, state or federal, is going to try and deploy a system with the costs associated, is pretty much nill here (and I've worked with DoD, so I'm pretty well aware of what capabilities exist, the costs involved, and the hoops the have to jump through to deploy).
Now...if you've already done enough shit to show up on their radar, that's another story. But an RFID band for a fest is probably the least you have to worry about at that point.
Post by Funky Munky on Feb 18, 2011 12:50:46 GMT -5
I'm not talking about what is possible, I'm talking about what our company sells everyday. It exists and I build and sell it. The applications for this type of technology are expanding. I don't work for the government, I work for a private company. People choose to buy our product to track people and monitor their health and behavior as well as their staff's response times. This exists today in every new hospital being built. It exists in most large corporations and has been a long time topic of discussion with regard to a national identification card.
I'm not a tin foil around my head kind of guy but you are going to be on private property and joining in a legal contract with Bonnaroo when you buy the tickets and enter their property. In the future if they decide to put RFID choke points at stage areas, vendors and other interactive attractions you'll either choose to go the festival under the knowledge that you are being tracked in that manner or you'll choose not to go. If you think those records couldn't later be subpoenaed then you are mistaken, they could.
With regard to cost an RFID chip costs less than a dollar. The choke points and software are more expensive but getting cheaper everyday. The reality of the situation is that the government won't drive this explosion of behavior monitoring, private companies will. They see value in better understanding their customers movement and buying patterns and they know they can make more money armed with this information. Fear isn't driving this technology, greed is.
I'm talking about the cost of designing a data warehouse for the inputs/outputs necessary for this specific task, the people required to manage it, and the cost of setting up an infrastructure to actually do something with that information.
You seriously sound paranoid. Considering I work in IT, have worked in this industry for well over a decade, and come from a military background, I'm pretty well aware of what technologies exist and what the government, much less the marketing group at Bonnaroo, are willing to go through.
Again, if you're on the government list already...well, hope you don't have a phone, credit card, etc, cause there are a lot of other pre-existing ways you can be tracked.
Post by Funky Munky on Feb 18, 2011 13:01:30 GMT -5
It's like you didn't read what I wrote. I'm sorry you are in denial. FWIW I was in the military, have worked for Siemens, Dell and am now an officer of a company that does exactly what I outlined in my above post everyday. I'm not starving. Good luck with your limited knowledge of what's possible today in a field where understanding tomorrow is all that really matters.
I'll worry about tomorrow when it gets here, and I'll worry about large scale big brother operations when they start posting cameras on 20ft telephone poles for recon.
And what are all of those helicopters really doing flying overhead all the time...
exactly
Meaning - Funky Monkey may be right
But - he may not
It is coming tho - we have cameras that watch intersections, take pictures of people running lights and tickets are mailed out.
We have cameras that monitor our highway systems, we have cameras that just monitor our intersections (here - where I live - they even have speakers that the police can actually talk to you - scared the hell out of me one day because the person in front of me was blocking the intersection and this voice came out of no where "DO NOT BLOCK THE INTERSECTION" - talk about Big Brother)
You never know what they are really using the watch tower for - they may have cameras in trees, on top of the Ferris Wheel and we really don't know who/what or why they have the helicopters up ALL the time.
Maybe it's just because I haven't and am not planning on doing anything wrong but it sounds like there are some pretty paranoid people here.
I don't really care if AC Entertainment or the FBI knows when I enter Centeroo, what band I see or how many times I visit the Samosa Man. It's their festival and they make the rules. I'd rather be there than not.
That said, I'm fairly certain that this is about making life harder on scalpers.
As far as them being uncomfortable, I guess I'll find out once I put them on. Again, since there's nothing I can do about it I don't see the point in getting all worked up months in advance.
Will they be used to create a cashless culture? I didn't read anything to that affect when they were describing them but I suppose it is possible. I know that they looked into it before though. Via email 3/5/07:
Dear Bonnaroo Patron,
For the 2007 Bonnaroo Music & Arts Festival, we are considering going "cashless."Pre-loaded swipe cards would be offered in various price levels ranging from $10 to$500 to purchase concessions, merchandise, etc. If you did not use all of the moneyon your card, you could redeem it at the end of the festival and any remaining moneyon the card would be refunded.
We would appreciate it if you would take a moment to fill out our swipe card surveyat the following link.
Post by cursedlono on Feb 19, 2011 17:31:12 GMT -5
I say everyone microwave the chips for a few seconds and we fuck up their tracking game. It is metal in it so a few second in the microwave should seriously degrade it. They would then either have to let us all in or issue replacment wristbands. And I highly doubt they will have time in line to reenter all of our personnal information.We can get our anonymity back. Also we can bring in RFID jammers I am sure there are some more radical people on here that would welcom restoring anarchy and freedoom to the farm!!! Also something else that is cool to do in line is just start swtiching bracelets around with people from Alaska swapping with Florida people.
1-1-12 Bassnectar NYE SHOW! 1-21-12 G. Love and Special Sauce 3-1-12 Radiohead 3-9-12 Experience Hendrix 5-15-12 Jack White @ The Ryman 6-7-12 Bonnaroo 6-19-12 Roger Waters presents "THE WALL" 7-7-12 Ringo Starr's 72nd Birthday Party Extravaganza at the Ryman
Post by cursedlono on Feb 19, 2011 17:34:37 GMT -5
I bet there are even a few peopl on here who rip security strips out of money from time to time. Not the USA currency mind you but a peso would do if you happen to have one lying about
1-1-12 Bassnectar NYE SHOW! 1-21-12 G. Love and Special Sauce 3-1-12 Radiohead 3-9-12 Experience Hendrix 5-15-12 Jack White @ The Ryman 6-7-12 Bonnaroo 6-19-12 Roger Waters presents "THE WALL" 7-7-12 Ringo Starr's 72nd Birthday Party Extravaganza at the Ryman
1-1-12 Bassnectar NYE SHOW! 1-21-12 G. Love and Special Sauce 3-1-12 Radiohead 3-9-12 Experience Hendrix 5-15-12 Jack White @ The Ryman 6-7-12 Bonnaroo 6-19-12 Roger Waters presents "THE WALL" 7-7-12 Ringo Starr's 72nd Birthday Party Extravaganza at the Ryman
Post by cursedlono on Feb 19, 2011 17:40:04 GMT -5
they might even think something went wrong with their precious system if we get a bunch of people to do this. i know they read the board and all. but seriously they done fucked up stating they were sending em out early. if they cannot get good bands to fill in for radiohead and prince not showing up. there is no way they can fix what we are about to do to the wristbands. they do not have the time to do it in. hell might not even have the money. they did cut out the ticket expense right? this might be our one and only shot ever to screw over bonnaroo and make our displeasure about some of the things that happen a real reality. and then Ashley Capps will have to sit down at the negotiating table. I feel like Ghandhi showing you all how to make Salt from Ocean Water.
1-1-12 Bassnectar NYE SHOW! 1-21-12 G. Love and Special Sauce 3-1-12 Radiohead 3-9-12 Experience Hendrix 5-15-12 Jack White @ The Ryman 6-7-12 Bonnaroo 6-19-12 Roger Waters presents "THE WALL" 7-7-12 Ringo Starr's 72nd Birthday Party Extravaganza at the Ryman
1-1-12 Bassnectar NYE SHOW! 1-21-12 G. Love and Special Sauce 3-1-12 Radiohead 3-9-12 Experience Hendrix 5-15-12 Jack White @ The Ryman 6-7-12 Bonnaroo 6-19-12 Roger Waters presents "THE WALL" 7-7-12 Ringo Starr's 72nd Birthday Party Extravaganza at the Ryman
1-1-12 Bassnectar NYE SHOW! 1-21-12 G. Love and Special Sauce 3-1-12 Radiohead 3-9-12 Experience Hendrix 5-15-12 Jack White @ The Ryman 6-7-12 Bonnaroo 6-19-12 Roger Waters presents "THE WALL" 7-7-12 Ringo Starr's 72nd Birthday Party Extravaganza at the Ryman
The wrist bands are going to take samples of your sweat! They will be able to test for NO NO WORD!!! and arrest anyone on them!
thats how they busted lindsey lohan!! what if they modify it to cut you off at the beer stand when you are considered "intoxicated" see why my call to civil disobeidence should be heeded we are securing not our futures at roo this year but for every year after plus think about how much fun we can have acting like black block anarchists and messing up THE CHIP!
1-1-12 Bassnectar NYE SHOW! 1-21-12 G. Love and Special Sauce 3-1-12 Radiohead 3-9-12 Experience Hendrix 5-15-12 Jack White @ The Ryman 6-7-12 Bonnaroo 6-19-12 Roger Waters presents "THE WALL" 7-7-12 Ringo Starr's 72nd Birthday Party Extravaganza at the Ryman
Post by captmonkey on Feb 19, 2011 18:21:17 GMT -5
RFID is pretty poor for "tracking" people down purposes I would imagine. I work for a large company that started installing RFID labels on pallets so they could track arrivals and departures from warehouses without having to scan each package. The way they did this is with two large column-like sensors to the sides of the doors in the warehouses. They were way too large for a person to carry and that was the only way they could ensure accurate tracking of the packages (which were no more than about 10 feet away from a sensor). Unless there have been amazing leaps forward in the technology in the past year and the price has plummeted (the system was very expensive), I'm going to bet you won't see people doing much human tracking with RFID any time soon, especially not for Bonnaroo. Stop being paranoid, folks.
Also, maybe they won't be plastic. It should be easy enough to stick an RFID chip inside the fabric or in the plastic clip for the fabric bands. Calm down, everybody.
i know your other thread got locked but it seriously is a possibility they could see the rfid on the interstates.
look at the enhanced drivers license you get to go to and from canada. when a friend got his it came in a sleeve and said remove id from sleeve 10 or so miles before the boarder. then you pass the scanners on the highway and they know you are coming to canada and have all of your information pulled up already when you get there.. no joke
im not saying the ones for roo will be as powerful but i honestly wouldnt put it past anyone to be able to scan one of these things while your car is doing down the interstate..
Your going to get the same wrist band we got in VIP last year. Plastic. RIFD chip in it. Orange and ugly.
No one tracked us from the air. No one scanned it when we went in. No one gave it a second look. No one came and carted us away if we did something naughty.
Hello..I work for the government..Please do not destroy your RFID chip because then we will not be able to track you and make sure you are safe...and cursedlono it doesnt matter if you destroy yours we planted one in your shlong many years ago...the only way to destroy that chip is by putting your shlong in a microwave...Good day from your NSA/Bonnaroo liaison agent..
lets say for humor's sake that they can track you within 25 square feet. If your at a stage or in the shakedown crowd (or almost anywhere at Roo) then that really only narrows it down to about 120 people. That being said it is my firm belief that big brother is not watching you as closely as you think at our dear festival, he's just tryin to keep the sneaky wooks away. Also for the record I will be way sad if they don't send me a commemorative flyer or something with my future-bracelet.
My guess is that the main use of the RFID chips will be to track the flow of the patrons around Broo so that they can optimized flow patterns for future roos. AND Track the demographics of the patrons with respect to the bands that they are watching (they will be able to determine how long you stayed at any particular venue). once again to optimize the lineup for future roos. I think this is fantastic, and glad they are going to use technology to improve roo.
"Actions Speak louder than words" It's the equivalent of filling out a questionnaire without having to do anything. Remember, this system approximates your location, it's not a pinpoint system. They would have to have RF receivers that overlap one another in order to determine your exact position. I think this would be overkill and stupid for the purposes of collecting data that benefits Roo.
If you are still worried that the MAN is after you. Build a small Faraday cage out of copper screen to hold your wristband.
My guess is that the main use of the RFID chips will be to track the flow of the patrons around Broo so that they can optimized flow patterns for future roos. AND Track the demographics of the patrons with respect to the bands that they are watching (they will be able to determine how long you stayed at any particular venue). once again to optimize the lineup for future roos. I think this is fantastic, and glad they are going to use technology to improve roo.
"Actions Speak louder than words" It's the equivalent of filling out a questionnaire without having to do anything. Remember, this system approximates your location, it's not a pinpoint system. They would have to have RF receivers that overlap one another in order to determine your exact position. I think this would be overkill and stupid for the purposes of collecting data that benefits Roo.
If you are still worried that the MAN is after you. Build a small Faraday cage out of copper screen to hold your wristband.
Look to all these people worried about tracking at all. The RFID chip is a TICKET!!!!, they will check it at the gate, and that will be it. Good lord people, you all really have a inflated opinion of what RFID can do.
