Whether it's your first Bonnaroo or you’re a music festival veteran, we welcome you to Inforoo.
Here you'll find info about artists, rumors, camping tips, and the infamous Roo Clues. Have a look around then create an account and join in the fun. See you at Bonnaroo!!
I'll concede this argument because I'm tired of it. I didn't know that was the caption on her original post, and if she posted it with the intention of pissing people off that's pretty bitchy and ok.
But generally I think people wearing head-dresses is innocent and not a big deal at all, and I think you guys are over the top reactionaries. And I think people should have the right to wear whatever they want. People adopt styles from other cultures all the time.
Sorry I'm big on civil liberties and get defensive of freedom of expression, and I don't think anyone has the right to anyone else how to dress
Freedom of expression is a legal protection, it means the police will protect you from violence and won't arrest you. Freedom of expression doesn't mean that everyone else has to ignore you or support your actions.
Wearing a headress is the equivalent of wearing blackface, you're free to do it, but getting mad at other people for viewing it negatively is odd. FWIW its just disrespectful.
Post by Dale Cooper on May 2, 2014 22:22:16 GMT -5
Beyond this whole cultural ignorance thing, Steven Drozd's tweet makes me question the extent to which the decision to fire Kliph was based solely on this headdress argument.
Everyone rushes to judgement, but I'm curious to hear the rest of the bands side of the story on this. I doubt we'll get it, but firing a drummer of 14 years over a difference in cultural beliefs seems irrational and reactionary. I'm not arguing that Wayne has moments of jerk in him (Erykah Badu, numerous other publicized instances), but I still feel like the whole story isn't exactly out to the public.
There's some serious hates going on on their fb page. Wondering is they may pull out of some gigs
Quack 'em. If this is Harry Potter, Mary Fallin is Dolores Umbridge. If any of this is true, then the Flaming Lips fired their drummer because he didn't politically support one of the most extreme right-wing families in the country.
So does everyone get this offended when someone dresses as Jesus at Halloween? How about a sexy nun? What about a flower necklace? In Hawaii it's a lei, but in Southeast Asia it's a sacrament to shrines. Where is this line drawn? If you're going to spend your time getting so upset over what someone wears, go join a campaign against sweatshops or volunteer at an animal rights charity.
Yes, it was insensitive to wear what she wore and make that post - especially given her mother's status, which sort of makes her a de facto representative for the governor -but Kliph's response was way over-the-top. It went beyond mere criticism or education and became plain harassment, and that's inexcusable. I also think Wayne's response was just as overblown, although I'm sure there were years of tension and conflict that led up to that tipping point. None of the three have come out of this looking good, but I think the two Lips come off the worst of all.
Post by Laggy.RETURNS on May 3, 2014 9:51:48 GMT -5
I think generally wearing head-dresses is innocent and fair, but if you're purposefully doing it mockingly then it could definitely be considered racist. And the girl in question may have been doing the latter.
Anyhow I just wanted to share this thought. I always considered myself to be very socially liberal. But I often get into intense argumentative discussions with other social liberals on certain social issues, because there's 2 sides of the coin in liberalism- Having total freedom of expression, or having freedom from being offended. You can't have both, unfortunately. And I'm all for freedom of expression.
I think everyone in this thread has valid viewpoints, I just see things differently. I think this has been a healthy discussion, and thanks to all who participated.
So... how about them Flaming Lips, huh? *back to topic*
So does everyone get this offended when someone dresses as Jesus at Halloween? How about a sexy nun? What about a flower necklace? In Hawaii it's a lei, but in Southeast Asia it's a sacrament to shrines. Where is this line drawn? If you're going to spend your time getting so upset over what someone wears, go join a campaign against sweatshops or volunteer at an animal rights charity.
Yes, it was insensitive to wear what she wore and make that post - especially given her mother's status, which sort of makes her a de facto representative for the governor -but Kliph's response was way over-the-top. It went beyond mere criticism or education and became plain harassment, and that's inexcusable. I also think Wayne's response was just as overblown, although I'm sure there were years of tension and conflict that led up to that tipping point. None of the three have come out of this looking good, but I think the two Lips come off the worst of all.
The Catholic Church is not a race of people who had genocide committed against them and all of their land stolen by white settlers. They're also not the bleached blonde daughter of a homophobic, xenophobic, extremist governor, wearing a headdress with the label "appropriate culturation." That label means she was aware of cultural appropriation, this wasn't accidental offense.
The religious equivalent would be someone dressing as a priest in blackface and holding up a sign that says "I want to show your children my body of Christ". What she did was completely quacked up. Fallin's daughter was raised by a horrible mother and may have thought she was funny, rather than a white supremist, but Coyne just fired a long-time band member for being offended at something that was extremely offensive.
It would be equally bad if he'd fired Scurlock for not being a Klan member, or not being a member of the animal liberation front. He was fired for not supporting extremists.
there's 2 sides of the coin in liberalism- Having total freedom of expression, or having freedom from being offended.
No one is asking for "freedom from being offended". Freedom of expression does not protect a person from the social consequences of their actions. You can legally dress up as Hitler and go to the Holocaust memorial. The police are legally obligated to stop violence from being done to you, and they can't arrest you. Everyone else is free to express what an insensitive jerkstore the guy in the Hitler costume is being.
None of us can stop you from wearing a headdress, but freedom of expression doesn't stop something from being offensive, as you already noted. If you're genuinely asking people to not be offended by blatant racism, that's where I take issue. Wearing a headdress is racist. Period. Freedom of expression means you can do racist things, it doesn't make them less racist.
So does everyone get this offended when someone dresses as Jesus at Halloween? How about a sexy nun? What about a flower necklace? In Hawaii it's a lei, but in Southeast Asia it's a sacrament to shrines. Where is this line drawn? If you're going to spend your time getting so upset over what someone wears, go join a campaign against sweatshops or volunteer at an animal rights charity.
Yes, it was insensitive to wear what she wore and make that post - especially given her mother's status, which sort of makes her a de facto representative for the governor -but Kliph's response was way over-the-top. It went beyond mere criticism or education and became plain harassment, and that's inexcusable. I also think Wayne's response was just as overblown, although I'm sure there were years of tension and conflict that led up to that tipping point. None of the three have come out of this looking good, but I think the two Lips come off the worst of all.
The Catholic Church is not a race of people who had genocide committed against them and all of their land stolen by white settlers. They're also not the bleached blonde daughter of a homophobic, xenophobic, extremist governor, wearing a headdress with the label "appropriate culturation." That label means she was aware of cultural appropriation, this wasn't accidental offense.
The religious equivalent would be someone dressing as a priest in blackface and holding up a sign that says "I want to show your children my body of Christ". What she did was completely quacked up. Fallin's daughter was raised by a horrible mother and may have thought she was funny, rather than a white supremist, but Coyne just fired a long-time band member for being offended at something that was extremely offensive.
It would be equally bad if he'd fired Scurlock for not being a Klan member, or not being a member of the animal liberation front. He was fired for not supporting extremists.
I think... you may be overreacting just a tad. When you use such exaggerated extremes as your priest in blackface analogy, you're actually weakening any valid points you have by turning it into a overblown caricature. A much more fitting comparison would be a German dressing as a rabbi, which frankly, I also see no problem with.
Post by theeimportance on May 3, 2014 10:56:20 GMT -5
pretty mind blowing that people are defending this racist bullshit.
just to throw my last two cents into this thread: saw the flaming lips last year and they were beyond boring. tame impala were much, much better and i hope they don't waste their time with wayne any more. also, drozd's epiphone 1275 was badass.
It's offensive and I'm not sure how it wasn't realized by all here in the first place.
Wayne has become gimmicky, boring, and assholey. Any publicity is good publicity and I don't even think he deserves our wasted attention discussing this anymore.
]I think... you may be overreacting just a tad. When you use such exaggerated extremes as your priest in blackface analogy, you're actually weakening any valid points you have by turning it into a overblown caricature. A much more fitting comparison would be a German dressing as a rabbi, which frankly, I also see no problem with.
Over-reacting? A man just FIRED HIS DRUMMER FOR NOT BEING A RACIST. Let that sink in. He fired his drummer for *not* joining him in supporting a racist. That's not an exaggeration. That's not an extreme, that's WHAT QUACKING HAPPENED. A white girl, the daughter of one of the most extreme xenophobic, homophobic, "mandatory Christian law" politicians, posted herself in a headdress with the title "appropriate culturation". What else does she have to do for you to grasp how bloody racist that is? That is BLACKFACE, that's not an exaggeration, it literally *is what she is doing*. With full awareness, she went out and mocked the people who have the brains to realize why a bleached-blonde white girl wearing a native chief's headdress is an offensive image.
As far as German Rabbis, there *are* German Rabbis, I should know, that's how half of my family wound up in Auschwitz.
Do you not get how deeply wrong it is to force your employees to share your political views? Do you realize how dark and quacked up it is to fire someone for being offended by something?
]I think... you may be overreacting just a tad. When you use such exaggerated extremes as your priest in blackface analogy, you're actually weakening any valid points you have by turning it into a overblown caricature. A much more fitting comparison would be a German dressing as a rabbi, which frankly, I also see no problem with.
Over-reacting? A man just FIRED HIS DRUMMER FOR NOT BEING A RACIST. Let that sink in. He fired his drummer for *not* joining him in supporting a racist. That's not an exaggeration. That's not an extreme, that's WHAT QUACKING HAPPENED. A white girl, the daughter of one of the most extreme xenophobic, homophobic, "mandatory Christian law" politicians, posted herself in a headdress with the title "appropriate culturation". What else does she have to do for you to grasp how bloody racist that is? That is BLACKFACE, that's not an exaggeration, it literally *is what she is doing*. With full awareness, she went out and mocked the people who have the brains to realize why a bleached-blonde white girl wearing a native chief's headdress is an offensive image.
As far as German Rabbis, there *are* German Rabbis, I should know, that's how half of my family wound up in Auschwitz.
Do you not get how deeply wrong it is to force your employees to share your political views? Do you realize how dark and quacked up it is to fire someone for being offended by something? I work with people every day who range in political views from far-right to actually-a-communist, we don't freaking fire each other over a disagreement on what is or isn't racist.
Over-reacting? A man just FIRED HIS DRUMMER FOR NOT BEING A RACIST. Let that sink in. He fired his drummer for *not* joining him in supporting a racist. That's not an exaggeration. That's not an extreme, that's WHAT QUACKING HAPPENED. A white girl, the daughter of one of the most extreme xenophobic, homophobic, "mandatory Christian law" politicians, posted herself in a headdress with the title "appropriate culturation". What else does she have to do for you to grasp how bloody racist that is? That is BLACKFACE, that's not an exaggeration, it literally *is what she is doing*. With full awareness, she went out and mocked the people who have the brains to realize why a bleached-blonde white girl wearing a native chief's headdress is an offensive image.
As far as German Rabbis, there *are* German Rabbis, I should know, that's how half of my family wound up in Auschwitz.
Do you not get how deeply wrong it is to force your employees to share your political views? Do you realize how dark and quacked up it is to fire someone for being offended by something? I work with people every day who range in political views from far-right to actually-a-communist, we don't freaking fire each other over a disagreement on what is or isn't racist.
I want to give you a flower, a Fresca, and a hug.
Jebus, calm down.
There's nothing to calm down over, this is NOT OKAY. This is literally happening in America in 2014:
Christina Fallin and the rest of her lame band tried to get publicity for a recent live performance by spreading the rumor that they were going to perform in full Native regalia. My good friend (and someone I admire deeply) Samantha Crain organized a peaceful protest. The band mocked Native culture and was very antagonistic towards the protesters by flipping them off and trying to get security to remove them, despite them being out of the sight lines of the audience.
And we have people here who are DEFENDING A RACIST and trying to downplay blatant racism. That's not okay. It's not okay. This is really, really quacked up. You should be afraid of it. You should be *deeply concerned*. You should be worried that a politican as dark and quacked up as Mary Fallin exists, and that her crotch-fruit is a white supremacist who *wrote a letter defending being a white supremacist* after native americans explained to her that they found her image in a headdress offensive, and why.
Post by discophish08 on May 3, 2014 12:52:12 GMT -5
I suggest that Bonnaroo replace the Flaming Lips with Tune Yards. Tune Yards new album isn't supposed to come out until Tuesday but I definitely just walked into SoundGarden in Baltimore and bought it. They only had one and I feel like it got mixed up with something else when they were stocking but either way, I bought it and I am listening to it and without a question of a doubt one of the funnest albums I have heard in a long time and there are no racists in that group (I know its primarily Merril but there are other performers with her live and on the album).
