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]I think... you may be overreacting just a tad. When you use such exaggerated extremes as your priest in blackface analogy, you're actually weakening any valid points you have by turning it into a overblown caricature. A much more fitting comparison would be a German dressing as a rabbi, which frankly, I also see no problem with.
Over-reacting? A man just FIRED HIS DRUMMER FOR NOT BEING A RACIST. Let that sink in. He fired his drummer for *not* joining him in supporting a racist. That's not an exaggeration. That's not an extreme, that's WHAT QUACKING HAPPENED. A white girl, the daughter of one of the most extreme xenophobic, homophobic, "mandatory Christian law" politicians, posted herself in a headdress with the title "appropriate culturation". What else does she have to do for you to grasp how bloody racist that is? That is BLACKFACE, that's not an exaggeration, it literally *is what she is doing*. With full awareness, she went out and mocked the people who have the brains to realize why a bleached-blonde white girl wearing a native chief's headdress is an offensive image.
As far as German Rabbis, there *are* German Rabbis, I should know, that's how half of my family wound up in Auschwitz.
Do you not get how deeply wrong it is to force your employees to share your political views? Do you realize how dark and quacked up it is to fire someone for being offended by something?
Yes, over-reacting - I did not stutter. You have a severely twisted outlook on this issue, which you've only further proven with this post. Just to make things clear, Kliph was fired for publicly harassing an elected official's child through social media - *not* for whatever his views on race are. Or do you seriously not grasp the difference?
If you read my original post, you'd see that I pointed out that it was an insensitive decision she made - but in no way whatsoever does that justify using one's fame as a platform to belittle and berate strangers online.
A band is not a corporation; people can be hired or fired for whatever reasons the other members see fit. The tension between Kliph and Wayne was creating an uncomfortable creative environment to the point that one of them clearly had to go, and the lead singer, principal songwriter and founding member took priority. I certainly don't think Wayne's hands are clean in this fight, but I can't say I blame him for his decision.
You are completely missing the point on the German rabbis comparison, but I can't say I'm too surprised given how you've skewed things so far.
pretty mind blowing that people are defending this racist bullshit.
just to throw my last two cents into this thread: saw the flaming lips last year and they were beyond boring. tame impala were much, much better and i hope they don't waste their time with wayne any more. also, drozd's epiphone 1275 was badass.
yeah i saw the pairing at maryweather and every one of us was not into the Lips part, with the exception of our one obsessed friend. Dark Vagina obsessed Wayne is no fun
Over-reacting? A man just FIRED HIS DRUMMER FOR NOT BEING A RACIST. Let that sink in. He fired his drummer for *not* joining him in supporting a racist. That's not an exaggeration. That's not an extreme, that's WHAT QUACKING HAPPENED. A white girl, the daughter of one of the most extreme xenophobic, homophobic, "mandatory Christian law" politicians, posted herself in a headdress with the title "appropriate culturation". What else does she have to do for you to grasp how bloody racist that is? That is BLACKFACE, that's not an exaggeration, it literally *is what she is doing*. With full awareness, she went out and mocked the people who have the brains to realize why a bleached-blonde white girl wearing a native chief's headdress is an offensive image.
As far as German Rabbis, there *are* German Rabbis, I should know, that's how half of my family wound up in Auschwitz.
Do you not get how deeply wrong it is to force your employees to share your political views? Do you realize how dark and quacked up it is to fire someone for being offended by something?
Yes, over-reacting - I did not stutter. You have a severely twisted outlook on this issue, which you've only further proven with this post. Just to make things clear, Kliph was fired for publicly harassing an elected official's child through social media - *not* for whatever his views on race are. Or do you seriously not grasp the difference?
If you read my original post, you'd see that I pointed out that it was an insensitive decision she made - but in no way whatsoever does that justify using one's fame as a platform to belittle and berate strangers online.
A band is not a corporation; people can be hired or fired for whatever reasons the other members see fit. The tension between Kliph and Wayne was creating an uncomfortable creative environment to the point that one of them clearly had to go, and the lead singer, principal songwriter and founding member took priority. I certainly don't think Wayne's hands are clean in this fight, but I can't say I blame him for his decision.
You are completely missing the point on the German rabbis comparison, but I can't say I'm too surprised given how you've skewed things so far.
I'm relieved to see I'm not the only one here that think she's taking things out of proportion in batshit crazy kind of ways
Post by ColorsAndShapes on May 4, 2014 11:27:41 GMT -5
A complication with art/music/acting/athletes is if you like the results they are producing we tend to dive further into their lives to find out how they came to be. Sometimes you can learn from it and love the artist more, but sometimes it gets dark, fast. In an interview with Philip C. Hoffman he talked about how he didn't like doing interviews because he felt they took away from his characters. If you knew he was a man with kids and going through a divorce it would be harder to see him as Capote or whomever. Same is true here.
I am a really really big lips fan and I don't want their beautiful messages and feelings I have felt during songs destroyed by things I know are going on in the band. So I tread lightly when it comes to getting closer to the lips band/fans/community. Same is true with the clothes we wear/car we drive/etc. We don't know they were made by a person with a big heart and a clean soul, its the end product of how it makes us feel we (generally) care about. It's a weird balance morals vs freedom ( not giving a fuck ) and realizing they are just people. I am not trying to be too preachy just have found myself in this battle with a few bands.
All in all. Rock stars, athletes, artist don't have to be role models.
pretty mind blowing that people are defending this racist bullshit.
just to throw my last two cents into this thread: saw the flaming lips last year and they were beyond boring. tame impala were much, much better and i hope they don't waste their time with wayne any more. also, drozd's epiphone 1275 was badass.
yeah i saw the pairing at maryweather and every one of us was not into the Lips part, with the exception of our one obsessed friend. Dark Vagina obsessed Wayne is no fun
I was at the Merriweather show, and I have to say I felt just the opposite. Tame Impala are so underwhelming live, especially when Kevin doesn't seem to know what's going on. I found Flips, on the other hand, entrancing for the most part, and when they pulled out Spoonful, it was a like a ray of light shining through that alien and unnerving (yet still arresting) set.
That said, Wayne is definitely in the wrong on this one. You guys are acting as though Kliph just went to a strangers page and started bullying them. He was trying to explain (to someone who would obviously not listen) that the headdress actually has a lot of meaning loaded behind it. It was very hard to obtain within tribes, and each feather had to be earned. Treating a headdress as a costume robs it of all meaning and is goddamn disrespectful. Wayne supported the ignorant and immediately unlikable woman by taking images of several people wearing his headdress, along with a dog.
I find it hard to hold the position that Kliph was just fired from the band for 'being mean online' and that it was a sound decision when Wayne used his online presence not only to support racism, but promote it. Put that besides all of his other midlife crisis bullshit, and I don't find it hard to believe that he was laughing on the side of the stage while the mayor's daughter mocked protesters with her 'rain dance' or whatever.
That said, that wall of text was about my dislike for Wayne and his decision. If it has influenced my listening habits at all, it's just reminded me that I should relisten to Yoshimi.
(1) Damon Albarn (2) Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds (3) King Khan & His Shrines (4) Ty Segall (5) Ms Lauryn Hill (6) Darkside (7) Kanye (8) Janelle Monae (9) Goat (10) Meshuggah.
Music Midtown: 2011 Bonnaroo: 2012 - 2016 Forecastle: 2013 Rock al Parque: 2014 420 Fest: 2014-2018 Shaky Knees: 2015 - 2019, 2021 Seen tons of local shows since 2004.
While I think Coyne seems like a total douche from everything I've ever heard, I'm not "afraid" and I will most likely be seeing the Flips at Roo.
The hysterics from celestia are absolutely hilarious. Your typical internet keyboard warrior for justice who has probably never done a god damn thing in real life to help anyone.
Post by beavdog151 on May 11, 2014 16:07:24 GMT -5
This seems like another example of people being led by the media. None of us are close to this matter. I read the Rolling Stones article and don't see what was so wrong about Wayne defending his friend, even if what she did was clearly wrong, which he agreed with. He acknowledged that she was young and immature but that's no reason to unfriend somebody. The better approach would be to help her and give her advice. Wayne said Kliph was fired because he had a record of being hateful and basically just an asshole. This was not the first time he was demeaning to a woman. Wayne recalls times where Kliph referred to women as cum receptacles, as if cunt wasn't bad enough. He finally had enough of his antics.
With all that being said who really knows what happened between these guys(all the details). I had a brief encounter with Wayne and he was incredibly nice and very down to Earth. His girlfriend was a sweetheart too. Maybe it's all an act, who knows. I like to think I'm a decent judge of character when I meet somebody and I definitely felt a good vibe around Wayne. I've met other celebrities and felt the opposite and the fakeness. Wayne was totally engaged in our interaction. Eventually we felt bad for holding him up so we went on our way but it seemed like he would've hung out all night.
I for one am looking forward to their performance. The show they put on Mexico was awesome. They're a top 5 show for me this year.
The hysterics from celestia are absolutely hilarious. Your typical internet keyboard warrior for justice who has probably never done a god damn thing in real life to help anyone.
How do you know? This seems like an unnecessarily mean thing to say.
Post by kidabstract on May 11, 2014 23:47:23 GMT -5
I love the flaming lips, and won't be at their show due to the conflict with the skrillex super jam. And I'll admit, this controversy has left a bad taste in my mouth and probably slightly affected my decision. But there's two things that I feel should be of note here:
1. This isn't the first time Coyn and Kliph have butted heads, and this particular incident shouldn't be considered the sole purpose Kliph was fired.
2. I don't necessarily think Coyn is a racist. Nor do I think Kliph was fired for NOT being a racist. He's an insensitive, egotistical dick head who has been relishing a bit too much in his new found popularity over the last 5-10 years. This was more about defending his "hip" young friend against some one whom he didn't like more than it was about the message behind her picture. Coyn is in his own little world, y'all.
As for the woman and her family....they're probably awful.
Post by cory's beard on May 12, 2014 2:24:42 GMT -5
I guess some of the bad taste has been removed with that interview in the sense that Wayne didn't really dodge any of the questions. I can see both sides exaggerating things. It was reassuring to hear Wayne come out against that band mocking the protest at that festival. Though a lot of the interview was mostly Wayne saying "man fuck Kliph he's a hater" and "I have Native American friends and help Native American causes therefore what Kliph says is absurd" which is the last thing you want to say in regards to allegations of racism.
If I go to their set this year, it'll be the 4th time I've seen the band. I guess it'll come down to what their setlists look like heading up to the show, because Nick Cave into Darkside and Frank Ocean are some pretty big competition. It was interesting that he was talking about using two drummers live going forward. Think of how fucking massive the drums will sound on songs like Race for the Prize.
The hysterics from celestia are absolutely hilarious. Your typical internet keyboard warrior for justice who has probably never done a god damn thing in real life to help anyone.
How do you know? This seems like an unnecessarily mean thing to say.
Post by itrainmonkeys on May 12, 2014 8:35:06 GMT -5
Wayne Coyne in Rolling Stone interview:
"He knows we struggled with him for years and it didn't occur to us that it seemed that significant. I don't even use the word "fired." He just doesn't play drums with us anymore – that's the way I'd put it."
later that same interview:
I mean, the Flaming Lips as an entity mostly act through me. I was the one that hired him when we were rehearsing with Beck and needed a drummer. I hired him, so of course I fired him.
Post by chanzkybychance on May 12, 2014 8:50:48 GMT -5
Too bad this is going down, and it looks like a mess with many people involved. Some people got hurt I am sure, which is never a good thing. But I go to roo to escape all this drama, so when I am there. This wont even be on my mind.
The Flaming Lips were one of the bands I got so pumped about this year. Between The Terror album (I haven't given it enough time?), schedule conflicts and this drama, they've fallen several places on my list. Might be a game time decision that night.
Post by Dale Cooper on May 12, 2014 9:36:02 GMT -5
I like the Lips a lot, and if I hadn't already seen them twice Saturday night would be a lot more difficult than it already is.
I will say that The Terror show is still a fantastic set piece. It will blow minds at Bonnaroo just like their other sets have. I hope this drama doesn't follow them to Roo. I'd like to swing by Wayne's solar stage visit to see what he does and I really don't want negative attitudes showing up.
Hopefully this will have died down some in the next month.
"He knows we struggled with him for years and it didn't occur to us that it seemed that significant. I don't even use the word "fired." He just doesn't play drums with us anymore – that's the way I'd put it."
later that same interview:
I mean, the Flaming Lips as an entity mostly act through me. I was the one that hired him when we were rehearsing with Beck and needed a drummer. I hired him, so of course I fired him.
lol
Even with time to prepare and a PR Agent writing his script, he still can't keep his lines straight.
I guess some of the bad taste has been removed with that interview in the sense that Wayne didn't really dodge any of the questions. I can see both sides exaggerating things.
Nothing is exaggerated on the other side. Do yourself a favor and google Fallin. Her life is so ridiculous that she basically lives like some super villain in a crappy Marvel spinoff. She literally ignored state supreme court orders to have death-row inmates injected with random chemicals mixed by a compounding pharmacy (the equivalent of asking grocery-store pharmacists to administer lethal injections). It resulted in a horrific botched execution.
Coyne is defending someone whose political and personal behavior makes the Westboro Baptist Church look like Toys for Tots. Coyne is firing his drummer for complaining that Fallin's daughter *openly mocked Native Americans protesters at an event*. She's not some little white girl who put on a headdress and then got flustered, she's someone who stood in front of a tribe jumping up and down waving her middle fingers in the air at them and laughing. Yeah, most people wearing a headdress at a festival are drunk, not racist, but Fallin is *genuinely a racist* *genuinely hates anyone who isn't a white, conservative protestant*, and genuinely has spent her entire career opposing women's rights, gay rights, minority rights, etc...
I get that most people on this site don't know who Fallin is so aren't aware of just how bad she is - she is really so evil that it's hard to believe she is real.
I guess I just don't care. If you disagree with her "shock" method of getting publicity, ignore her.
How many rock musicians over the years have openly mocked Christianity? How many have mocked presidents, politicians, religious groups, races, etc. Quite a few.
Some of the time it's to get attention, some of the time it's genuine. But making it out to be some sort of major issue that has an effect on anyone is pretty ridiculous.
As far as I can tell, this chick is a nobody and not even popular. So the net effect of her actions is pretty minimal. If anything, the protesters and people in an uproar over it are giving it far more publicity than it would have had if they just ignored it.
Seems counter productive. Like protesting a Westboro Baptist Church gathering. That's exactly what they want and it keeps them going.
Nothing is exaggerated on the other side. Do yourself a favor and google Fallin. Her life is so ridiculous that she basically lives like some super villain in a crappy Marvel spinoff. She literally ignored state supreme court orders to have death-row inmates injected with random chemicals mixed by a compounding pharmacy (the equivalent of asking grocery-store pharmacists to administer lethal injections). It resulted in a horrific botched execution.
Coyne is defending someone whose political and personal behavior makes the Westboro Baptist Church look like Toys for Tots. Coyne is firing his drummer for complaining that Fallin's daughter *openly mocked Native Americans protesters at an event*. She's not some little white girl who put on a headdress and then got flustered, she's someone who stood in front of a tribe jumping up and down waving her middle fingers in the air at them and laughing. Yeah, most people wearing a headdress at a festival are drunk, not racist, but Fallin is *genuinely a racist* *genuinely hates anyone who isn't a white, conservative protestant*, and genuinely has spent her entire career opposing women's rights, gay rights, minority rights, etc...
Except in the Rolling Stone interview, Wayne said that wasn't the reason he fired Kliph. That it was more of Kliph's attitude towards Fallin's daughter and just in general over the years. In the interview, Wayne pretty much notes Fallin's immaturity but says that's not any reason to stop being her friend. So I don't see how he's defending those actions. He's just speaking out against someone using overly harsh language in their critiques. And with Drozd's tweet after all of this broke which said that the firing didn't have anything to do with Fallin's daughter directly, I'm inclined to not really believe Wayne or Kliph on eachother's judgements of character. But that both sides are probably exaggerating things and that it's really just a personal squabble between the two.
I mean, yeah, I get it. She's a horrible governor and probably a horrible person. But this is about The Flaming Lips and Their reasons and actions for doing things. And while it still sucks to see bad blood in a band you like, I'm kind of relieved that Wayne's reasoning for firing Kliph may be more of a personal issue with him than a political one.
Nothing is exaggerated on the other side. Do yourself a favor and google Fallin. Her life is so ridiculous that she basically lives like some super villain in a crappy Marvel spinoff. She literally ignored state supreme court orders to have death-row inmates injected with random chemicals mixed by a compounding pharmacy (the equivalent of asking grocery-store pharmacists to administer lethal injections). It resulted in a horrific botched execution.
Coyne is defending someone whose political and personal behavior makes the Westboro Baptist Church look like Toys for Tots. Coyne is firing his drummer for complaining that Fallin's daughter *openly mocked Native Americans protesters at an event*. She's not some little white girl who put on a headdress and then got flustered, she's someone who stood in front of a tribe jumping up and down waving her middle fingers in the air at them and laughing. Yeah, most people wearing a headdress at a festival are drunk, not racist, but Fallin is *genuinely a racist* *genuinely hates anyone who isn't a white, conservative protestant*, and genuinely has spent her entire career opposing women's rights, gay rights, minority rights, etc...
Except in the Rolling Stone interview, Wayne said that wasn't the reason he fired Kliph. That it was more of Kliph's attitude towards Fallin's daughter and just in general over the years. In the interview, Wayne pretty much notes Fallin's immaturity but says that's not any reason to stop being her friend. So I don't see how he's defending those actions. He's just speaking out against someone using overly harsh language in their critiques. And with Drozd's tweet after all of this broke which said that the firing didn't have anything to do with Fallin's daughter directly, I'm inclined to not really believe Wayne or Kliph on eachother's judgements of character. But that both sides are probably exaggerating things and that it's really just a personal squabble between the two.
I mean, yeah, I get it. She's a horrible governor and probably a horrible person. But this is about The Flaming Lips and Their reasons and actions for doing things. And while it still sucks to see bad blood in a band you like, I'm kind of relieved that Wayne's reasoning for firing Kliph may be more of a personal issue with him than a political one.
Nah dude it's totally cause Wayne is a racist and he can't have anyone in the band who doesn't support racists
Nothing is exaggerated on the other side. Do yourself a favor and google Fallin. Her life is so ridiculous that she basically lives like some super villain in a crappy Marvel spinoff. She literally ignored state supreme court orders to have death-row inmates injected with random chemicals mixed by a compounding pharmacy (the equivalent of asking grocery-store pharmacists to administer lethal injections). It resulted in a horrific botched execution.
Coyne is defending someone whose political and personal behavior makes the Westboro Baptist Church look like Toys for Tots. Coyne is firing his drummer for complaining that Fallin's daughter *openly mocked Native Americans protesters at an event*. She's not some little white girl who put on a headdress and then got flustered, she's someone who stood in front of a tribe jumping up and down waving her middle fingers in the air at them and laughing. Yeah, most people wearing a headdress at a festival are drunk, not racist, but Fallin is *genuinely a racist* *genuinely hates anyone who isn't a white, conservative protestant*, and genuinely has spent her entire career opposing women's rights, gay rights, minority rights, etc...
Except in the Rolling Stone interview, Wayne said that wasn't the reason he fired Kliph. That it was more of Kliph's attitude towards Fallin's daughter and just in general over the years. In the interview, Wayne pretty much notes Fallin's immaturity but says that's not any reason to stop being her friend. So I don't see how he's defending those actions. He's just speaking out against someone using overly harsh language in their critiques. And with Drozd's tweet after all of this broke which said that the firing didn't have anything to do with Fallin's daughter directly, I'm inclined to not really believe Wayne or Kliph on eachother's judgements of character. But that both sides are probably exaggerating things and that it's really just a personal squabble between the two.
I mean, yeah, I get it. She's a horrible governor and probably a horrible person. But this is about The Flaming Lips and Their reasons and actions for doing things. And while it still sucks to see bad blood in a band you like, I'm kind of relieved that Wayne's reasoning for firing Kliph may be more of a personal issue with him than a political one.
Coyne coming along days later and reading the statements his PR agent wrote for him (while failing to even keep that straight...) doesn't change that he fired his long-time drummer conveniently when said drummer spoke out against the daughter of a prominent politician that Coyne is sharing vacations with. The only immature person here is Coyne. If the drummer's behavior was such an issue, he would have been fired years ago. This is purely about the political disagreement, Coyne is making up a bunch of crap to make himself look better.
Is Coyne a racist? Probably not. Is he a hot-head? Yup. Does he make poor choices in friends? Clearly. Kliph's got fired because he called out Fallin.
